Quick (mercifully) ride on a Class 720

[Bletchleyite]

So I decided today to go and experience a 720 for myself. Not much running on Greater Anglia today so I settled for Hertford East, which was useful as I could then walk to North and compare it to a 717.

First impressions - the decor is very nice, almost luxury in feel. It is also solidly put together and gives the feel of quality unlike most earlier Bombardier products (*star) which always felt a bit rattly and cheap. The straight sides, moving away from the almost-tilt-profile of the *star, give the feel of spaciousness. Lighting a little bright but OK. Windowsill nice for putting your arm on. Coffee shelf fold-down table handy. Ride excellent, up there with the best.

BUT

Who on earth came up with the seat configuration? The seats themselves are the narrowest I have experienced, narrower than many bus seats, and legroom is tight (to squeeze in just two extra seats per coach and in doing so wreck the window alignment). They are hard against the wall and the aisle is so narrow I could barely pass it sideways. Furthermore the seats themselves are harder than the 717's "ironing boards", and the more contoured back is painful if you have to sit across two because you can't fit in one. I also noticed the pointless "knee guards" on some seats which I guess is intended to be because the seats are offset slightly but I'm not sure what exactly they are protecting. My ample backside, FWIW, took about a seat and a third of width, and from looking around nobody in the entire coach would fit in one seat width.

These units are designed for small children, not adults, with a comfort level similar to a 3+2 seated "schoolkid road coach". The 3+2 cannot and will not be used as 3+2. Vastly inferior to even a 350/2.

I'm sure the LNR 2+2 seated 730s will be good - but did whoever designed this garbage even think?

717 on the way back, and this had more comfortable seats (yes, flat-based ironing boards), better window alignment and more space across even with the "narrow 2+2" layout, FWIW.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

720s aren't even as comfortable as the basic 305s that used to run on that line in the 70s, but at least then, if you were going to travel a long distance, like Cambridge or Clacton you had a better train, now you get the same 720s unless you are one of the chosen few from Norwich or Stansted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

720s aren't even as comfortable as the basic 305s that used to run on that line in the 70s, but at least then, if you were going to travel a long distance, like Cambridge or Clacton you had a better train, now you get the same 720s unless you are one of the chosen few from Norwich or Stansted.

I would say it was the least comfortable train I have ever ridden on, that I recall. Even the basic flat 3+2 seating as on the Merseyrail 507/508 beats it - partly because it was slightly wider, but partly because if you do have to sit across two seats a flat seat is more comfortable than a contour pushing into your back. Maybe on a par with the Merseytravel Pacers but certainly not better.

I don't even mind 350/2s that much. The seat on those is the same width as the /1 so I fit (mostly). These are much narrower. I think even narrower than the 323.

As I said, it's suitable for children under the age of about 12 at best.

 

[StephenHunter]

I like the 720s myself. Better than the 800s for seating.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I like the 720s myself. Better than the 800s for seating.

I assume you are short and skinny!

I don't like the Fainsa Sophia, but I will take it over a seat that must be less than a foot wide. Even the tight seats on a Ryanair Boeing 737 are 16"!

Edit: just got a tape measure out and I reckon they're about 14.5".

 

[Mag_seven]

the aisle is so narrow I could barely pass it sideways.

That's what I found as well - I had to walk slightly sideways to pass easily down the coach.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW the Kiel seat itself isn't awful in shape. If the LNR 2+2 730s have the wider 2+2 version they'll no doubt be fine - but do be warned it is a hard-based seat, definitely harder than the flat-based ironing board in the 7xx.

 

[XAM2175]

I had much the same conflict of opinions - the Aventra seems a much more well-built train than the *stars (even if they need a lot of tweaks before entering service), and the overall ambience on board is entirely decent.

But they are totally, completely, and thoroughly ruined beyond redemption by the seating layout.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Who on earth came up with the seat configuration?

The Department for Transport...

 

[Bletchleyite]

But they are totally, completely, and thoroughly ruined beyond redemption by the seating layout.

Yep, that's it. I'm sure the LNR 2+2 version will be decent (a 2+2 layout aligned to the windows would be excellent, I'd go as far as to say better than a 350 as the 24m vehicles give that elusive "InterCity feel" and the windowsills are bigger so you can rest your arm on them as I like doing). But the 3+2 version...well, I never thought I'd say that "upgrading" to Fainsa Sophias in 1st would be worth the money!

Never thought an upgrade worth it on a Desiro, but if these horrid things were designed to make me go 1st (I'm assuming the LNR 3+2 layout will be the same) they are likely succeeding...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's what I found as well - I had to walk slightly sideways to pass easily down the coach.

It doesn't help that they've stuck the grab handles half way down the neat, narrowing the aisle even more. Most people are gripping the top of the seat anyway as the handles are too low and impossible to reach properly.

 

[306024]

It doesn't help that they've stuck the grab handles half way down the seat, narrowing the aisle even more. Most people are gripping the top of the seat anyway as the handles are too low and impossible to reach properly.

Speaking to a GA conductor they’ve raised that exact point with the management. Try walking down there with all your ticket selling kit as well!

 

[StephenHunter]

The 3+2 arrangement was used on the 321s and 360s they're replacing.

 

[Starmill]

It certainly made me re-evaluate my waistline. I, erm, don't physically fit through the aisles. And I'm only a bit overweight...

If you're tall and broad shouldered you've no chance I'd think. Going sideways is a must. The layout specifically is perhaps the worst I've ever seen.

 

[Starmill]

The 3+2 arrangement was used on the 321s and 360s they're replacing.

Indeed but the aisle on those is slightly less narrow.

 

[cactustwirly]

So I decided today to go and experience a 720 for myself. Not much running on Greater Anglia today so I settled for Hertford East, which was useful as I could then walk to North and compare it to a 717.

First impressions - the decor is very nice, almost luxury in feel. It is also solidly put together and gives the feel of quality unlike most earlier Bombardier products (*star) which always felt a bit rattly and cheap. The straight sides, moving away from the almost-tilt-profile of the *star, give the feel of spaciousness. Lighting a little bright but OK. Windowsill nice for putting your arm on. Coffee shelf fold-down table handy. Ride excellent, up there with the best.

BUT

Who on earth came up with the seat configuration? The seats themselves are the narrowest I have experienced, narrower than many bus seats, and legroom is tight (to squeeze in just two extra seats per coach and in doing so wreck the window alignment). They are hard against the wall and the aisle is so narrow I could barely pass it sideways. Furthermore the seats themselves are harder than the 717's "ironing boards", and the more contoured back is painful if you have to sit across two because you can't fit in one. I also noticed the pointless "knee guards" on some seats which I guess is intended to be because the seats are offset slightly but I'm not sure what exactly they are protecting. My ample backside, FWIW, took about a seat and a third of width, and from looking around nobody in the entire coach would fit in one seat width.

These units are designed for small children, not adults, with a comfort level similar to a 3+2 seated "schoolkid road coach". The 3+2 cannot and will not be used as 3+2. Vastly inferior to even a 350/2.

I'm sure the LNR 2+2 seated 730s will be good - but did whoever designed this garbage even think?

717 on the way back, and this had more comfortable seats (yes, flat-based ironing boards), better window alignment and more space across even with the "narrow 2+2" layout, FWIW.

Well they are better than the 345s which go all the way to Reading...

The ride is awful, and the 720s have loads of rattles already for a brand new train. They are a very cheap train built for style over substance.
The 717s are vastly more superior, better ride and much more screwed together.

 

[cactustwirly]

I assume you are short and skinny!

I don't like the Fainsa Sophia, but I will take it over a seat that must be less than a foot wide. Even the tight seats on a Ryanair Boeing 737 are 16"!

Edit: just got a tape measure out and I reckon they're about 14.5".

The tight seats you're talking about are Recaro slimline seats. All major airlines have them now including BA on their newer A320s, I don't mind them tbh

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 3+2 arrangement was used on the 321s and 360s they're replacing.

Class 321 width: 2.82m
Class 360 width: 2.80m
Class 720 width: 2.77m

That'll be your problem. The sidewalls are also thicker, I reckon probably 10cm narrower inside.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The tight seats you're talking about are Recaro slimline seats. All major airlines have them now including BA on their newer A320s, I don't mind them tbh

I was thinking of the originals.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On a 350/2 now. The seats are definitely wider (I reckon 1.5-2"), legroom better, base less hard, a wider aisle, plus all bays aligned to windows. Never thought I would say it, but we will miss them when this junk shows up. Hopefully the random unit generator will give Bletchley plenty of the 2+2 sets.

 

[AndyDeltic19]

Have the 720s lost that awful "new" smell they had yet? First few times I boarded one I felt the stench was a cross between flat-pack furniture and vomit