Questions regarding visit to Lisbon

[johnnychips]

I'm going to Portugal, staying in Lisbon, at the end of October for a week. I've never been disappointed by the forum members' fountain of knowledge, so please may I tap into it again:

1. I would like a day out in Porto. A cursory look at DB App seems like this is doable, if I got up early, but it says the trains need reservations - would it be better to try and book on the internet (how friendly is the website?) or do it when I get there?

2. Is there a railway museum, or indeed any other transport museum worth seeing?

3. Have you any tips for ways of getting round Lisbon - is there a travel card?

4. What places, nearer than Porto, are worth seeing, both in transport and non-transport sights?

5. Do many people understand English? I can speak a bit of Spanish, but someone told me that although they look a bit similar when written, they are very different in speech.

6. Best way of getting from Lisbon airport to the centre.

I await your replies with interest and gratitude.

John

 

[Segedunum]

I can tell you that there's two day tickets.

One for the Metro, Tram and bus, one for the CP operated trains. You load them both to a Viva Viagem paper smartcard, tap in one to validate them, then they're good all day.

The Cascais Line along the coast is quite pretty, trains are pretty battered looking as are the stations but the views are nice. The CP day ticket is valid for the entire length of the line.

I got by with mainly English and a few words of Portuguese (greetings in shops mainly) and did fine. I'd recommend maybe learning a few basic words and phrases but English proficiency around Lisbon seemed quite good.

If I recall correctly, Lisbon Airport has a Metro station which is probably best depending on where in the city you need to be. The Metro/Tram/Bus pass should be valid to there too.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

Lisbon has a day travel card valid on buses, metro and trams. It was 6 euros when we were there.

There is a choice of bus or metro from the airport. The bus is more direct to the city centre. The metro takes a deviation via the Eastern Suburbs.

The tram museum is tremendous. Don't miss it.

Day trip. Go to Estoril on the suburban train. Great food when you get there.

I speak next to no Portuguese. Obrigado (thank you) gets you a long way.

 

[johnnychips]

Thanks already in 11 minutes!

 

[Glenmutchkin]

Just thinking about it we also went to Cascais which is a couple of stops beyond Estoril. Really nice spot.

If you want something a bit different there are three funiculars and a massive lift thing called the Elavador Santa Justa.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The cp.pt app/website looks pretty easy to use and if you but tickets in advance (for your trip to Porto) you can save about 40%

 

[bspahh]

The Wikivoyage page https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Lisbon is pretty good for a summary of how to get around. It used to have horror stories about the cost of a taxi from the airport. However it didn't seem too bad when I used one last year. A few years ago, I did get a taxi from the city centre, to the airport, and the taxi driver didn't know the way to get there!

I usually take the metro from the airport. It is cheap and pretty frequent. It is best to get a Viva Viagem card. You can either load a €6.15 day pass onto the card, or load on some credit, a bit like an Oyster card, and pay €1.30 for a single.

It costs €0.50 to buy the card, but you save that on each ticket. The ticket expires after a year, so don't put too much money onto it.

I've been to Lisbon for a week in November for the last 5 years. I haven't done much touristy stuff, as I'm there for a conference. Generally the weather is 15-20C.

The extent of my Portuguese is to grunt greetings, please and thanks. English is quite widely spoken, so its fine to get by.

I took the train out to Cascais. The ticket was only a few Euros

The flights from the UK are over 1500km. Last year I had one that was delayed by 3 hours 5 minutes, so I got €400 compensation.

At Lisbon airport, all the flights arrive at terminal 1, which has the Metro station. However, for departures with the cheap airlines, you need to get a free 10 minute bus to terminal 2. That is not as nice. It didn't help that there were delayed flights so it was really busy too.

 

[sheff1]

1. You can book on line via the CP site. I find it very easy to use. Usually you will have no issues waiting until you are in Lisbon before booking ... but if, for example, your visit corresponds with a public holiday some trains may be fully booked.

2 & 3 have, I believe, already been answered.

4. Sintra is worth a visit. Many other places further afield are too, but if this is your first visit there is more than enough to see in Lisbon and its surroundings.

5. Outside of tourist areas, English is not widely spoken but the people are very helpful. For example, when I was in a restaurant in a small town where no one spoke English, and there was no written menu for the lunchtime specials, the waitress took me through to the kitchen so that I could make my choice from what was being prepared !

Written Portuguese does, indeed, have similarities with Spanish - it will certainly help in deciphering many things on a menu - but, as you say, when spoken it sounds very different. I would not recommend you try and communicate in Spanish unless you know the person concerned speaks the language - relations between the two countries have not always been cordial, especially for older generations.

6. Definitely the metro. Buses can get uncomfortably overcrowded.
Edit - beware though that Lisbon is very hilly. What might look a short walk could be very tiring if you are carrying luggage - do check carefully.

Enjoy your trip. I always do.

 

[Jetlagged]

Hello John

You seem to have most answers there but here is my two cents worth :

1. Porto is definitely doable in a day. CP run a regular service of Intercity and high speed Alfa Pendular trains for which you must have a seat reservation. The CP website is available in English and is quite straightforward to use. As part of the booking process you will be able to select your own seat.

2. I understand the tram museum in Lisbon is excellent but have yet to get there. I keep saying next time but it never comes. Much like my intention to visit the London Transport Museum!

3. The bus, tram and metro network is an excellent way to get around and there are various tickets available. Checkout this website for full details. It is in English.

4. This depends on your interests. A couple of hours north of Lisbon by train is the old University city of Coimbra. If you are into historic buildings and culture it might be worth considering. Apart from that, I agree with others regarding Cascais and in the same direction, but on a different line, is Sintra with its Moorish amongst other things.

5. English is widely spoken and Spanish understood by the majority. Before you need obrigado (Thank you), you might like, 'uma cerveja por favor'! Do you see the similarity to Spanish?

6. The cheapest way to the city centre is by metro, but it will possibly need a change of trains depending exactly where you want to be. There is also the Aerobus which has two circular routes linking the airport and many city hotels. There website is here in English. If you are a user of Uber, they are available and will meet you in the car park immediately outside departures NOT arrivals. To confirm what bisppahh said above, if you fly in on a low cost airline, you will arrive at Terminal 1 but will depart from Terminal 2. Worth a mention as it does catch some folk out.

I have also sent you a PM.

 

[MarcVD]

Some complements...

1. Seats on the Alfa pendular can sell out quickly. Reserve as fast as you can.

2. Each tram line in Lisbon is worth doing, from one terminus to the other and back.

3. If still running, go visit the Sintra heritage tramway line. You can go to Sintra by train from, if I remember well, the Lisboa Rossio station.

4. Make sure you see, and if possible ride on, the 25th April bridge.

5. See the Lisboa Oriente station if you like modern architecture.

6. Linha do Oeste. Goggle that, and do it if you like time machine experiences.

Not railways related now...

1. Wonderful organ in Sao Vicente de Flora. If you can hear it...

2. If you like fine arts, the Gulbenkian museum is a masterpiece.

3. If you like industrial archaeology, make sure you see the lisbon water museum, Museu da Agua. Goggle that for more info.

4. Rent a car, head North, and visit some of the gothic style monasteries in the district of Leiria.

Envoyé de mon SM-T819 en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[Redonian]

I am just back from Lisbon.
Day tickets, which cover Metro, tram and bus are the easiest way to get around. There are machines (with an English menu) inside the Airport Metro station. There are often quite long queues for these but walk just beyond them and there is a Carris booth which rarely has a queue which will sell you a ticket and give you a metro map. The ticket (Viva Viagem) is Euro 6.65. 50 c for the ticket and 6.15 euro for 24 hours. Hang on to the ticket and just top it up at any metro machine for another 24 hours. Machines take notes, cash or cards.
The Tramway Museum (Museu da Carris) is excellent. Take tram 15E westbound to Estacao de Santo Amaro, which is right outside the museum.
The Portuguese Railway Museum is at Entroncamento. It's just over an hours run on the train from Lisbon and there are plenty of trains. There are some bargain fares on the CP website. I did the run for 21 euro return in first class. The Museum is new and very well worth a visit. Not open on Mondays. Other days 13:00 - 18:00.
Tram route 28 is the best one but it can get very crowded after about 10:30. Get up early and ride the whole route. Great fun.

 

[Jetlagged]

A message of thanks to MarkVD for some interesting ideas. Obrigadissimo!

Just to add to the excellent advice by Marc and Redonian:

If you take Marc up on his idea of a car rental, do include the charming medieval town of Obidos about 85 kms to the north.

If you like pastries, you should take the No. E15 tram to Belem and visit "Pastéis de Belém". Here, you can watch them make the classic little Portuguese custard tarts and then try them with a cup of coffee or hot chocolate. In high season they have made as many as 60,000 in one day. Don't worry too much if there is a queue as the place is larger inside than it first looks. By the way, if you ask for coffee in Portugal you will be served no more than a couple of sips of espresso in a tiny cup. A white coffee comes by many names including, Meio de leite (pronounced: mayo de light).

The best aquarium in the world in my opinion, is in Lisbon. I always take the opportunity to visit aquaira wherever I am in the world and Lisbon has them all beaten hands down for me.

Lisbon Oceanarium in English.

It is usually possible to buy discounted tickets. If you are interested, drop me a PM or email and I'll search them out for you. On the subject of discounts, do take the time when you arrive at Lisbon Airport to checkout the Tourist Information desk. They have plenty of literature there for various attractions and many of these will also contain discount coupons.

Lisbon is no different to any other popular tourist destination when it comes to pick pockets. Do please be vigilant on the metro but particularly on the historic trams of which there are many. They get very crowded and are a popular hunting ground for these lowlife. Once on board, try to stay away from the doors which give them an easy exit once they have robbed you.

 

[duesselmartin]

the national railway museum is at Entrocamento, a major junction on the way to Porto.
The museum at Lagos sadly closed. Mind you if you have time, the Algarve lines are also worth visiting.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Most have already been answered but...

3. Have you any tips for ways of getting round Lisbon - is there a travel card?

Yes - can even be used on the Fertagus trains too but you have to "buy" a Fertagus ticket at a Fertagus machine first then "tap-in" - kind of like Oyster in London. There's another thread on this in this forum.

4. What places, nearer than Porto, are worth seeing, both in transport and non-transport sights?

Eiffel (or actually Eiffel's Designed) bridge. Porto is overall picturesque. You can take the train up to Braga and Guimares respectively. Braga has a huge cathedral and funicular, while Guimares has a particularly nice castle lacking in all kinds of safety railings

5. Do many people understand English? I can speak a bit of Spanish, but someone told me that although they look a bit similar when written, they are very different in speech.

You might get away with a bit of French too - for historical reasons. We found that English was no problem but any attempt to speak Portuguese was very much appreciated. Take phrase book.

6. Best way of getting from Lisbon airport to the centre.

Ther's a metro station at the airport which connects to the center and also runs via Oriente if you need a train to the rest of the country.

Enjoy!!

Ian

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Take bus 729 over the 25th April bridge for a good view. As it is one of the yellow buses your Lisbon ticket is valid on it. It terminates at a non descript suburb on the other side of the bridge, but connects with a modern light rail network if that is of interest. You'll have to buy a separate ticket to ride it, but the machines have an English option.

The day tickets are valid for 24 hours from time of purchase, so if you buy at 14:00 in the afternoon it will work until 13:59 the next day. There are no peak restrictions, so use at any time in the 24 hours. Evening Metro trains are often cut from 6 to 3 cars, so stand on the right part of the platform. The tickets are also valid on the heritage trams and 3 funiculars.

All Intercity trains require reservations, but these can be changed for free up to 2 hours before departure.

Coimbra is a nice city and also the home of the only trolleybus network in Portugal. There is also a team museum here as well, but it was closed last time I went.

There is a line from Coimbra to Lisbon via Leiria. Takes forever, but scenic and you get to see some rural Portugal.

Oriente is the busiest station in the city for Intercity stuff, all trains from Santa Apalona go there. The latter is worth visiting as it still has run rounds and a station pilot, usually a CP 'Class 20'.

Oriente is attached to a shopping centre. There is a smallish model shop in the concourse of the station. The other end of the shopping centre leads into the Expo Park where there is a cable car.

 

[johnnychips]

Thank you so much!

 

[Gordon]

.

I haven't visited Portugal for many years now, but even so, I can add a couple of comments.

I first visited Portugal as an 11 year old in 1971 due to my family's interest in Trams. My uncle guided us to various steam railways and all the trams which then consisted of Porto, Lisboa, Sintra-Atlantico and Coimbra (all operating the 'classic Portuguese' - ie American style - trams.). I also made visits in the 1980s before the major contraction of the Lisboa tram network

Porto is easily reachable from Lisboa as a day trip, as the train only takes around 3 hours. If you are really into the tram side of things, then Porto's heritage lines, which have survived in tact despite huge changes, actually have more traditional 'classic portuguese' trams than does Lisboa, as the active Lisboa cars have all be modernised, whereas I would recognise a currently active Porto heritage tram as what I saw in 1971.

Also worth doing the Sintra tram, as it is also a remarkable survivor. Having been curtailed significantly at one time, the whole route now runs I saw it in 1971. It could so easily have been deemed unnecessary and closed.

Finally, on the language - Many people make the mistake of assuming that as neighbouring countries Spanish can be used in Portugal. However, the two countries haven't always seen eye to eye so English (or French) is actually better.

Having said that my uncle who is a translator and Spanish linguist, always quipped that Portuguese is like Spanish without any vowels being pronounced.



.

 

[Jetlagged]

.

Having said that my uncle who is a translator and Spanish linguist, always quipped that Portuguese is like Spanish without any vowels being pronounced. Also while there are similarities, there are also famously some complete opposites, the best known being that the word for butter is Burro in Spanish, but in Portuguese Burro means a donkey.

I think either you or your uncle are getting confused here Gordon. Burro is donkey in Spanish and Portuguese. Butter is mantequilla in Spanish and manteiga in Portuguese. BUT go to Italy and you can quite happily ask kfor some burro to spread on your bread!

 

[stuartmoss]

If you have a spare 90 minutes, I made quite a detailed city tour of Lisbon with the major sites and many smaller ones identified...

https://youtu.be/Iq8Yry4jhAM

 

[Flying_Turtle]

CP Lisbon fares

https://www.cp.pt/passageiros/en/train-times/Prices/tickets

Most have already been answered but...

Yes - can even be used on the Fertagus trains too but you have to "buy" a Fertagus ticket at a Fertagus machine first then "tap-in" - kind of like Oyster in London. There's another thread on this in this forum.

Apart from CP IC trains to Alentejo and Algarve, the suburban passenger trains on the 25th April bridge are operated by Fertagus, which is not on the general ticketing system, apart from the pay as you go Zapping system.

The Zapping system will charge you a fixed fee on CP (1,85 currently) no matter the distance.

On Fertagus, if you have a zapping, BEFORE YOU TRAVEL you need to go to their blue vending machine and select your destination. Only then you can "touch in". You ll only need to touch out if the destination station has exit barriers.

The fares are here:

https://www.fertagus.pt/ing/travel/fertagus

 

[CC 72100]

Just came back from Portugal - couple of days in Lisbon before taking the 1130 Intercidades train (loco + corail coaches) to Porto for a couple of days there.

Both beautiful cities. If you're going to do Tram 28, get there early (before 8:30) and you'll be able to enjoy it sat down before waiting for about 5 trams to come and go.

Underground has ~8 minute frequencies, probably easiest way to the city.

The CP website is so user friendly - very easy to do a paper ticket. Plus can select your exact seat. Other countries take note!

 

[BahrainLad]

I use CP.pt regularly to book tickets on the Alfa between Lisbon and Tunes (for the Algarve). Booking in advance can get First Class for €17,50 each way. And they will SMS your ticket to your U.K. mobile number. No need for paper! Very simple to use. I’d recommend this for your day trip to Porto.

 

[rf_ioliver]

CP Lisbon fares

https://www.cp.pt/passageiros/en/train-times/Prices/tickets


Apart from CP IC trains to Alentejo and Algarve, the suburban passenger trains on the 25th April bridge are operated by Fertagus, which is not on the general ticketing system, apart from the pay as you go Zapping system.

The Zapping system will charge you a fixed fee on CP (1,85 currently) no matter the distance.

On Fertagus, if you have a zapping, BEFORE YOU TRAVEL you need to go to their blue vending machine and select your destination. Only then you can "touch in". You ll only need to touch out if the destination station has exit barriers.

The fares are here:

https://www.fertagus.pt/ing/travel/fertagus

Thanks...I figured this out last time I was there but couldn't remember the name of the tickets Use Fertagus and the CP local services daily.

Easy once you figure out a few things.

To the original poster: if you're in Lisbon check out the Rossio station and its horseshoe entrance!

t.

Ian

 

[northwichcat]

5. Do many people understand English? I can speak a bit of Spanish, but someone told me that although they look a bit similar when written, they are very different in speech.

I get the impression the Portuguese don't like hearing Spanish, they don't properly understand it so if you're going to speak in a foreign language they'd prefer English or French. When I was there a couple of years ago there seemed to be a lot more French tourists than British tourists.

Although, in the countryside they might not speak any foreign languages so if you want to go off the beaten track it might be best doing it with a bilingual tour guide.

6. Best way of getting from Lisbon airport to the centre.

Metro. Although, in Portugal a trade union can call a strike with very little advance warning, so I'd suggest knowing both the metro and airport bus options so if the metro staff were to strike, you'd know what alternative to take.

 

[Jetlagged]

To be honest, if you book online in advance you don't actually need a ticket; paper or electronic. Part of the booking process asks for your name to be entered. When the conductor comes to your seat you simply give your name. Easy peasy!

 

[52290]

I'm currently in my hotel in Porto having last visited this town in 1974. I first came here in 1968 and visited the place at least every year for the next six years. Northern Portugal was a Mecca for steam enthusiasts with both narrow gauge examples in use. The Narrow gauge system both in Porto and along the Douro valley was worked by coal fired steam locos and railcars some of which worked off petrol as well as diesel. The narrow gauge steam shed in Porto was at Boavista, about 5 mins walk from where I now am. It is currently part of the Porto Metro, an expanded system which has replaced the gleaming copper capped chimneys of the 0-4-4-0's (GWR style) mallets that formerly worked the lines to Povoa and Guimaraes. Curiously the Metro has been regauged from one metre to the European standard gauge and not the Iberian broad gauge. The line to Guimaraes has been converted to broad gauge and electrified and the extension to Fafe is now closed. I can remember travelling all the way to Fafe, about 60km, behind a mallet on the one through steam train of the day which departed about 9.45am if I remember rightly.
The remotest place I ever got to by steam in Portugal was Duas-Igrejas Miranda on the Sabor line, the most easterly of the Douro Valley narrow gauge lines. The line didn't quite make Miranda do Douro,the only place with any hotels, so the final leg had to be done by taxi. Of the three daily trains to this spot only the last one was steam, arriving quite late at night, but it was worth it to travel behind one of the superb 2-4-6-0 mallets. In the morning you had to be up early because the steam train was the first one out but there was a bus connection for this. Does anyone else have memories of staying at the Pensauo Planalto in Miranda?
East of Regua towards the border town of Barca d'Alva the broad gauge Douro Valley line was worked by steam locos and diesel railcars at this time. Diesel locos were not permitted because they were too heavy for the bridges so the steam fleet was concentrated at Regua shed and included locos drafted up from the south of the country. Portugal was dieselised from south to north.
On the subject of language I had to learn to write it to apply for photographic andshed permits, which were granted. One tip, never ever use Spanish here.

 

[Cowley]

I went to Portugal for a music festival in about 1999, I remember parking up by the River Tagus in the middle of nowhere one night and hearing 1400s (Portuguese class 20s) running on the other side of the valley.
I ended up spending the summer around Lisbon and going on a lot of the trams in the city which were lovely.
One day I caught a train from Setubal to Barrerio station on the bank of the Tagus opposite Lisbon and it was pulled by a 1900 class, what an absolute beast! I ended up doing a couple of trips on them from Barrerio to different places (can't remember where now though) and seeing the odd 1800 (Portuguese 50) on freight still. It was a very interesting experience.
Are there any 1900s still in passenger service nowadays does anyone know?

 

[johnnychips]

On 31st October, using the CP app, I can get €70.50 First (day) return from Lisbon to Porto leaving 0930 on an IC train and returning on an AF at 1745; obviously it’s cheaper in 2nd. I would consider this a fair price, but there seem to be ‘promo’ fares advertised that seem a lot less, but don’t seem to come up. Any ideas?

 

[Jetlagged]

On 31st October, using the CP app, I can get €70.50 First (day) return from Lisbon to Porto leaving 0930 on an IC train and returning on an AF at 1745; obviously it’s cheaper in 2nd. I would consider this a fair price, but there seem to be ‘promo’ fares advertised that seem a lot less, but don’t seem to come up. Any ideas?

I guess we've just found the first snag with the new forum. I have reported the formatting problem.

I've not a clue what you are trying to say at the moment but as soon as I can work it out I'll try to help.

Edit to say that I think I have sorted it now.

First of all, the promotional fares would come in at 47.50€ in first or 33.50€ in second. That is at this moment, but these promotional fares are flexible and will increase over time before disappearing altogether.

Second, in my opinion the first class or Conforto as CP call it, is not worth the extra money. It is not like the difference between the two classes on main line services in the UK and, in the case of the IC, you will barely notice the difference. On the Alfa you will get a little more width and leg room on your seat. You will also be offered coffee and newspapers.

If I understand correctly, you said you were having difficulty accessing the promo fares? If I have that right, go to the home page of CP and in the top row of tabs select 'Buy tickets' rather than 'Train times'. The promo fares are over on the right of the page alongside the yellow star.

 

[johnnychips]

...in my opinion the first class or Conforto as CP call it, is not worth the extra money. It is not like the difference between the two classes on main line services in the UK and, in the case of the IC, you will barely notice the difference. On the Alfa you will get a little more width and leg room on your seat. You will also be offered coffee and newspapers.

If I understand correctly, you said you were having difficulty accessing the promo fares? If I have that right, go to the home page of CP and in the top row of tabs select 'Buy tickets' rather than 'Train times'. The promo fares are over on the right of the page alongside the yellow star.

Thanks for the advice about classes and how to access the cheaper fares. Will try later!