• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Questions regarding GWML Padd-Reading and Crossrail Farringdon

Status
Not open for further replies.

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,318
Most of the surface work at Farringdon has already been done. From the "new" booking hall east of Cowcross Street another bank of escalators is being built behind a temporary wall which will be removed when they are complete.

The western end of Farringdon station still looks similar but the east end is indeed totally unrecognisable.

The inset at bottom right of this picture from the Crossrail website shows what edwin_m is explaining above. There are short escalators down from the existing Thameslink ticket hall to an intermediate landing, then the main escalators go down to Crossrail by doubling back under the platforms. I expect there'll also be a direct route through from the Thameslink northbound platform to avoid having to go up and down though.

AIUI the existing lifts alongside the southbound Thameslink platform will also go all the way down to the Crossrail platform level. Depending on their capacity they might be a better option if connecting from a Southbound Thameslink...
 

Attachments

  • Farringdon.jpg
    Farringdon.jpg
    126.4 KB · Views: 76
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

HowardGWR

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2013
Messages
4,981
I understand that when the class 387s are transferred to GWR, the third rail equipment will be removed. Is that sensible? (Southampton to Pad anyone?).
 

LexyBoy

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,478
Location
North of the rivers
Is there much "reverse commuting" into Reading from Maidenhead and nearby?

Agree entirely. I have never understood the allegedly widespread demands for the extension past Maidenhead. But it doesn't alter the general view that they are pretty much unsuitable for going the full distance to Oxford.

I'd never understood terminating at Maidenhead. Crossrail isn't self-contained and has to fit within the existing network as well as providing connections to it. If TV-Reading/West journeys are not to be adversely affected, that would mean retaining most of the current stopping services (for which the paths would be hard to find), or stopping a lot of services at Maidenhead, which would cause a bottleneck. Slough would have seemed a more obvious choice to me.

It would be like terminating northern Thameslink at Flitwick and Huntingdon, rather than Bedford and Peterborough IMO.

So, Crossrail all the way from Reading will be 20 to 25 minutes slower than taking an express and changing at Paddington - whatever the destination.

Agreed it will probably remain quicker to change at Paddington, but I can still see people choosing the direct train. A seat on an (initially) empty train versus standing 25 minutes on an express, plus not having to elbow people out of the way to get across Paddington, is likely to be worth 10-15 minutes of time for a sizeable minority (I think 5 minutes to get off, get to Crossrail and get on a train is pushing it rather).

I would imagine that post GWML electrification, the timetable will be adjusted to reduce the number of inter-city trains that stop at Reading and pick up/set down only rules will be enforced a lot more stringently than the current farce, to reduce commuter traffic clogging up long distance services. The 387s will be presented as the correct service for commuters, given their faster boarding/alighting layout and faster acceleration. Their RDG-PAD journey time is likely to be no more than 30 mins. anyway.

Cutting Intercity services stopping at Reading seems to be a bit of an obsession in some quarters. What counts as "long distance" from Paddington? Penzance sure, Swansea too, but Cardiff? Bristol? Thames Valley-London traffic is GWR's big cash cow, I doubt that they will want to start removing services. Reading's not unique - you could argue the same for most of the stations between London and Bristol and end up with a fast, non-stop but half-empty service.

More practically, if we're talking about adding enough 387 seats to move a big chunk of the commuter footfall, then this will reduce overcrowding without any further changes. If not, then you'd get IC services with empty seats and crush-loaded 387s. Finally, Reading is large in itself and serves as a hub for a much larger area - if it were skipped there would be adverse effects on travel to the West (which is competing with the car, unlike travel to London) - OTOH pick up / set down restrictions would not improve journey times.
 

Philip Phlopp

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2015
Messages
3,003
I understand that when the class 387s are transferred to GWR, the third rail equipment will be removed. Is that sensible? (Southampton to Pad anyone?).

The equipment will remain available to be re-installed at a later date, but removing it during AC only use is sensible.
 

coppercapped

Established Member
Joined
13 Sep 2015
Messages
3,339
Location
Reading
I would imagine that post GWML electrification, the timetable will be adjusted to reduce the number of inter-city trains that stop at Reading and pick up/set down only rules will be enforced a lot more stringently than the current farce, to reduce commuter traffic clogging up long distance services. The 387s will be presented as the correct service for commuters, given their faster boarding/alighting layout and faster acceleration. Their RDG-PAD journey time is likely to be no more than 30 mins. anyway.

At the moment it looks as if the only trains non-stop through Reading will be the extra two fast Bristol via Badminton trains each hour starting with the introduction of the Class 801 and 802.
All other off-peak services will remain as now - except possibly for minor tweaks that have not yet been made public. The tweaks may be that one or two peak period services omit the Reading stop.
 
Last edited:

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,318
I understand that when the class 387s are transferred to GWR, the third rail equipment will be removed. Is that sensible? (Southampton to Pad anyone?).

There isn't really any significant amount of equipment to remove. They could just leave the shoe gear in the raised position, as is done with LM 350/1s.

(Before someone points out that the equipment has been removed from LM units, I have fairly recent photos that prove otherwise, e.g. 350120, at Euston, 21st July this year.)
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1039.jpg
    IMG_1039.jpg
    33.2 KB · Views: 59
Last edited:

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
16,067
Location
St Albans
Cutting Intercity services stopping at Reading seems to be a bit of an obsession in some quarters. What counts as "long distance" from Paddington? Penzance sure, Swansea too, but Cardiff? Bristol? Thames Valley-London traffic is GWR's big cash cow, I doubt that they will want to start removing services. Reading's not unique - you could argue the same for most of the stations between London and Bristol and end up with a fast, non-stop but half-empty service.

More practically, if we're talking about adding enough 387 seats to move a big chunk of the commuter footfall, then this will reduce overcrowding without any further changes. If not, then you'd get IC services with empty seats and crush-loaded 387s. Finally, Reading is large in itself and serves as a hub for a much larger area - if it were skipped there would be adverse effects on travel to the West (which is competing with the car, unlike travel to London) - OTOH pick up / set down restrictions would not improve journey times.

The GWML is being electrified, different trains being acquired and timetables will be recast to address the expected continued rise in passenger numbers over the next 10-20 years. The current mess where commuters cram onto trains already full that are intended for long-distance travel to the detriment of those passengers for whom they are provided will need to stop. Just because FGW currently seem to be too weak to enforce their own rules on some trains as regards set down/pickup only at Reading services, doesn't mean that that will continue for much longer. On all the main lines into London, the gateway stations like Milton Keynes, Bedford, Woking etc., the pattern of change in recent years has been to keep local travellers off the peak longer distance trains. This avoids the situation where these trains are over-full when leaving London, but then spend the remaining 60-80% of the total journey time carrying fresh air where quite a few longer distance travellers could be sitting.
As far as the cash-cow aspects of the Thames Valley traffic is concerned, SWT, EMT VT all still have as many passengers as they have seats for so why do you think that FGW (or their successor franchsee) will be any different?
Dwell times at Reading will be (slightly) shorter by enforcing restrictions on longer distance services as the train will only be stopping to let those arriving at Reading to get off, - there won't be the sardines packing into the vestibules via the single end doors.
Seeing that you bill yourself as a "Reading Commuter", I can understand that you don't want the be denied access to the nice new 800/801s, but ignoring what has happened on all the other mainlines into London and why, will leave you disappointed when it happens on the GWML. There will be an 'uproar' in the local press etc. etc. but the passengers will still keep travelling on the 387s, a perfectly acceptable train for a 25-30 minute dash.
 

silverfoxcc

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2012
Messages
454
My ideal Crossrail would be to add a semi fast Reading-Twyford-Maidenhead-Slough-Ealing-Paddington..This would certainly take some of the HST overloading and give a nice halfway house between the 'parliamentry' all stations and the Reading-Padd services
 
Last edited:

coppercapped

Established Member
Joined
13 Sep 2015
Messages
3,339
Location
Reading
My ideal Crossrail would be to add a semi fast Reading-Twyford-Maidenhead-Slough-Ealing-Paddington..This would certainly take some of the HST overloading and give a nice halfway house between the 'parliamentry' all stations and the Reading-Padd services
There are already half-hourly limited stop services running to Paddington from Reading, in most cases these originate from Oxford and allow people travelling along the Thames Valley to make the bulk of their journeys without changing. If this through connection is broken, as there is unlikely to be capacity on the Reliefs for four limited stop trains per hour, then there will be uprisings in the shires!

In any event such trains do not, and will not, take any passengers off the 125mph trains on the Mains as they are limited to 90mph (even the Class 345s for Crossrail) at best and lower in some places. The difference in travel time from Reading is, quite simply, too great.
 

HarleyDavidson

Established Member
Joined
23 Aug 2014
Messages
2,544
Easy solution is to have two levels of fares.

1. Premium - Valid on high speed services, LTV & Crossrail.

2. Economy - Valid on LTV & Crossrail only.

You pays your money & makes your choice. It seems to work with SET and their high speed and domestic services.
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
13,205
Easy solution is to have two levels of fares.

1. Premium - Valid on high speed services, LTV & Crossrail.

2. Economy - Valid on LTV & Crossrail only.

You pays your money & makes your choice. It seems to work with SET and their high speed and domestic services.

If HEx is to be folded into Crossrail, could it be incorporated into the premium fare?

(Although I realise it would be difficult to implement a dual-fare structure on a unit without bringing in a first class compartment.)
 

JamesRowden

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
1,762
Location
Ilfracombe
The GWML is being electrified, different trains being acquired and timetables will be recast to address the expected continued rise in passenger numbers over the next 10-20 years. The current mess where commuters cram onto trains already full that are intended for long-distance travel to the detriment of those passengers for whom they are provided will need to stop. Just because FGW currently seem to be too weak to enforce their own rules on some trains as regards set down/pickup only at Reading services, doesn't mean that that will continue for much longer. On all the main lines into London, the gateway stations like Milton Keynes, Bedford, Woking etc., the pattern of change in recent years has been to keep local travellers off the peak longer distance trains. This avoids the situation where these trains are over-full when leaving London, but then spend the remaining 60-80% of the total journey time carrying fresh air where quite a few longer distance travellers could be sitting.
As far as the cash-cow aspects of the Thames Valley traffic is concerned, SWT, EMT VT all still have as many passengers as they have seats for so why do you think that FGW (or their successor franchsee) will be any different?
Dwell times at Reading will be (slightly) shorter by enforcing restrictions on longer distance services as the train will only be stopping to let those arriving at Reading to get off, - there won't be the sardines packing into the vestibules via the single end doors.
Seeing that you bill yourself as a "Reading Commuter", I can understand that you don't want the be denied access to the nice new 800/801s, but ignoring what has happened on all the other mainlines into London and why, will leave you disappointed when it happens on the GWML. There will be an 'uproar' in the local press etc. etc. but the passengers will still keep travelling on the 387s, a perfectly acceptable train for a 25-30 minute dash.

Stopping intercity GWML services at Reading provides a business case for more frequent intercity services and greatly improves connectivity since 8 important lines converge at Reading and a significant number of people are not traveling to/from Central London. These eight lines are:
  • GWML (East)
  • Rail Air (To Heathrow) (Soon to be replaced by a railway line)
  • Reading-Waterloo Line
  • North Downs Line (To Redhill/Gatwick)
  • Cross Country (South) (via Basingtoke and Southampton)
  • Berks and Hants (To Plymouth/Penzance)
  • GWML (West)
  • Cross Country (North) (Via Oxford)

Milton Keynes Central only has WCML services.
Bedford only has MML and Bletchley-Bedford services.
Woking has SWML, Portsmouth direct and Waterloo-Alton services, a Rail Air service, and only 2tph running non-stop through.
 
Last edited:

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
16,067
Location
St Albans
Stopping intercity GWML services at Reading provides a business case for more frequent intercity services and greatly improves connectivity since 8 important lines converge at Reading and a significant number of people are not traveling to/from Central London. These eight lines are:
  • GWML (East)
  • Rail Air (To Heathrow) (Soon to be replaced by a railway line)
  • Reading-Waterloo Line
  • North Downs Line (To Redhill/Gatwick)
  • Cross Country (South) (via Basingtoke and Southampton)
  • Berks and Hants (To Plymouth/Penzance)
  • GWML (West)
  • Cross Country (North) (Via Oxford)

Milton Keynes Central only has WCML services.
Bedford only has MML and Bletchley-Bedford services.
Woking has SWML, Portsmouth direct and Waterloo-Alton services, a Rail Air service, and only 2tph running non-stop through.

Of course, off-peak when journeys could include interchanges between some of those lines the London-Reading stoppers will be useful. That hasn't got anything to do with allowing commuters to use these services in the peak hours when they are already full with neither long-distance commuters or cross-country travellers who need to travel in the peak hours.
 

JamesRowden

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
1,762
Location
Ilfracombe
Of course, off-peak when journeys could include interchanges between some of those lines the London-Reading stoppers will be useful. That hasn't got anything to do with allowing commuters to use these services in the peak hours when they are already full with neither long-distance commuters or cross-country travellers who need to travel in the peak hours.

The advantages I mention still apply during the peak. If intercity services are too full up east of Reading then they should be longer or more frequent. If more frequent, the additional services could run non-stop through Reading.
 
Last edited:

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,280
The GWML is being electrified, different trains being acquired and timetables will be recast to address the expected continued rise in passenger numbers over the next 10-20 years. The current mess where commuters cram onto trains already full that are intended for long-distance travel to the detriment of those passengers for whom they are provided will need to stop. Just because FGW currently seem to be too weak to enforce their own rules on some trains as regards set down/pickup only at Reading services, doesn't mean that that will continue for much longer. On all the main lines into London, the gateway stations like Milton Keynes, Bedford, Woking etc., the pattern of change in recent years has been to keep local travellers off the peak longer distance trains. This avoids the situation where these trains are over-full when leaving London, but then spend the remaining 60-80% of the total journey time carrying fresh air where quite a few longer distance travellers could be sitting.
As far as the cash-cow aspects of the Thames Valley traffic is concerned, SWT, EMT VT all still have as many passengers as they have seats for so why do you think that FGW (or their successor franchsee) will be any different?
Dwell times at Reading will be (slightly) shorter by enforcing restrictions on longer distance services as the train will only be stopping to let those arriving at Reading to get off, - there won't be the sardines packing into the vestibules via the single end doors.
Seeing that you bill yourself as a "Reading Commuter", I can understand that you don't want the be denied access to the nice new 800/801s, but ignoring what has happened on all the other mainlines into London and why, will leave you disappointed when it happens on the GWML. There will be an 'uproar' in the local press etc. etc. but the passengers will still keep travelling on the 387s, a perfectly acceptable train for a 25-30 minute dash.

Trying to compare Reading with the likes of Bedford is grade one apples and pears stuff. There are all of three EMT trains into London between 6.30 and 8am, which terminate at St Pancras, rather than continuing into the heart of the City, so it's not surprising that most Bedford-London commuters are not on the EMT expresses, is it?

Ever so slightly different from Reading, which is, as noted above, very important for inward commuting from the Thames Valley, Oxfordshire and West Berkshire, and one of the most important interchange stations in the whole country. Neither is the case at Bedford or Woking, and while there is commuting into MK, it's no use as an interchange.

Pretty much everything will continue to stop at Reading in future and will be highly unlikely to be subject to all these draconian measures you seem to think will be enforced - unless you know where the army of staff required to do that is going to come from.

I fully expect that GWR will encourage Reading commuters to use the Class 387 services but by rather more subtle and boring means than the sort of thing you seem to favour, such as publicity campaigns pointing out that if they want a seat - one of their most constant complaints - they are far more likely to find one on a 12-car 387 that has just come from Swindon, Oxford or Didcot and delivered a lot of Reading-bound commuters to make room for them than on an 800/801 from Bristol, Cardiff, etc, full of people also off to London.

Once some of them cotton on and spread the word that they will get a seat on a 387 service, I expect a lot of them will happily make the switch - right now, where the choice is basically a busy HST from/to somewhere further west, or a trundle along the reliefs on a Turbo that is bound to be rammed east of Slough, it's hardly surprising they all pile on to HSTs.
 

JamesRowden

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
1,762
Location
Ilfracombe
An example of a complex (but maybe neccesary) way of increasing the intercity frequency would be running peak-only Swindon-Paddington services which stop at Reading and connect at Swindon with intercity services which only skip Reading during the peak.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,414
The advantages I mention still apply during the peak. If intercity services are too full up east of Reading then they should be longer or more frequent. If more frequent, the additional services could run non-stop through Reading.

But having long trains to deal with passengers on the first 20 minutes of a 2, 3 or 5 hour journey is an incredibly wasteful use of resources. Far better to run the intercity trains with the capacity they need for the long-distance travellers and use more appropriate high-density units for the short distance Reading travellers.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,414
An example of a complex (but maybe neccesary) way of increasing the intercity frequency would be running peak-only Swindon-Paddington services which stop at Reading and connect at Swindon with intercity services which only skip Reading during the peak.

Yes, using 387s to do that rather than longer-distance stock.
 

JamesRowden

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
1,762
Location
Ilfracombe
Yes, using 387s to do that rather than longer-distance stock.

I think that I read a document that stated that 140mph stock would be used for such a service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But having long trains to deal with passengers on the first 20 minutes of a 2, 3 or 5 hour journey is an incredibly wasteful use of resources. Far better to run the intercity trains with the capacity they need for the long-distance travellers and use more appropriate high-density units for the short distance Reading travellers.

It would produce a more frequent intercity service which I don't think the long-distance commuters would regard as a waste.
 
Last edited:

Chris M

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2012
Messages
1,060
Location
London E14
The other option of course is portion working, with part of the train terminating at Reading or splitting to go somewhere like Oxford.
 

hassaanhc

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2014
Messages
2,225
Location
Southall
At least they are 9-car units, which will be a boon for the Reading local service, where GW turns out for much of the time just 3-car, and from time to time even 2-car, diesel units for the service, which with empty first class saloons doesn't give a lot of space left. GW would never have multipled the 4-car emus they are getting if Crossrail wasn't coming.

I think any residual GW service on the relief lines will not last too long, unless it's just an Orcats Raid on the local revenue that Crossrail will stimulate. What with Crossrail and the need to insert freights between them on the reliefs, there isn't going to be a lot of capacity left.

Oh here we go again :roll:. You very well know there aren't enough units to make all weekday services 4-6 cars, whereas most weekend services are as enough units are available. You are aware that First has been declassified. That platforms are ~145m long so relatively short compared to other parts of London. That there was a lot of uncertainty about future plans for the line, resulting in very few. new trains being ordered (what on earth are the 5-car electrics used by Heathrow Connect? Definitely not 2-3 cars).
 

LexyBoy

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,478
Location
North of the rivers
The current mess where commuters cram onto trains already full that are intended for long-distance travel to the detriment of those passengers for whom they are provided will need to stop.

They're provided for passengers making any journey between stations they serve. At the moment the only way of providing a fast Reading-Paddington service is by including longer-distance services. I don't think this will change drastically post-electrification.

This avoids the situation where these trains are over-full when leaving London, but then spend the remaining 60-80% of the total journey time carrying fresh air where quite a few longer distance travellers could be sitting.
Are you saying that passengers don't travel [by train] because the train is busy for 25 minutes of a 2 hour journey?

As far as the cash-cow aspects of the Thames Valley traffic is concerned, SWT, EMT VT all still have as many passengers as they have seats for so why do you think that FGW (or their successor franchsee) will be any different?
VT serves huge population centres far from London - several times the size of those GWR serves. EMT likewise serves some large cities (for the size of the line), and a significant commuter demand from Leicester. SWT run few long-distance routes, and these serve as fast commuter trains to the likes of Basingstoke, Southampton etc.

I agree that there will be a move to segregate, but I don't believe it can go as far as VT/EMT. As mentioned above, none of those routes serves anywhere comparable to Reading in terms of having a significant inward demand and acting as a regional hub.

Seeing that you bill yourself as a "Reading Commuter", I can understand that you don't want the be denied access to the nice new 800/801s, but ignoring what has happened on all the other mainlines into London and why, will leave you disappointed when it happens on the GWML. There will be an 'uproar' in the local press etc. etc. but the passengers will still keep travelling on the 387s, a perfectly acceptable train for a 25-30 minute dash.

Personally I don't care what train it is - within reason - as long as journey times and service frequency are not affected. Will the 387s alone provide a 5- (or even 10-) minute frequency for Reading-London? If so, I expect people will be happy (well, obviously commuters are never happy, but relatively speaking...)

BTW, I commute Reading-Didcot, and have colleagues that commute from Bristol and Bath. Coming from the West, the numbers disembarking at Reading far exceed Swindon (for example), where again all trains call.

I fully expect that GWR will encourage Reading commuters to use the Class 387 services but by rather more subtle and boring means than the sort of thing you seem to favour, such as publicity campaigns pointing out that if they want a seat - one of their most constant complaints - they are far more likely to find one on a 12-car 387 that has just come from Swindon, Oxford or Didcot and delivered a lot of Reading-bound commuters to make room for them than on an 800/801 from Bristol, Cardiff, etc, full of people also off to London.

Indeed - I've said before that a "traffic light" poster/leaflet showing how busy trains typically are would be a great help - if passengers could see that a less busy train was around the corner I think that enough people would choose to wait to make a difference to crowding.
 

coppercapped

Established Member
Joined
13 Sep 2015
Messages
3,339
Location
Reading
Easy solution is to have two levels of fares.

1. Premium - Valid on high speed services, LTV & Crossrail.

2. Economy - Valid on LTV & Crossrail only.

You pays your money & makes your choice. It seems to work with SET and their high speed and domestic services.

Why would anybody pay a supplement to travel on a Crossrail or other outer suburban train from Reading to London when there will only two Crossrail trains per hour and two other semi-fast services? Both these types of train will make several stops and take 25 to 30 minutes longer (depending on the stopping pattern) to reach London than a fast non-stop train?

In view of the numbers of passengers and frequency of the trains at Reading, differently priced tickets can only be made to work if the tickets are checked when boarding the train, not just when the passenger enters the station. This might just be possible now that traffic flows at Reading are better segregated by putting barriers on the over bridge where the escalators, lifts and stairs go down to Platforms 10 and 11 - the Up Main platform faces. However, this would royally screw up the flow of people to other platforms.

If checked on the high speed train itself the revenue control people will have a maximum of 25 minutes (less when the Old Oak Common station opens) to check anything up to some 500 tickets. To do this effectively - allowing that some passengers may have to pay a supplement and others will be awkward - one would probably need one inspector for each two or three coaches. We are therefore talking about 4 or 5 inspectors per train. As they could be back in Reading in about an hour to do the whole thing over again and as there are around 10 high speed departures each hour one can guess that 45 or 50 inspectors will be needed.
The high speed train supplement would have to be quite high to pay for all these extra people!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Agreed it will probably remain quicker to change at Paddington, but I can still see people choosing the direct train. A seat on an (initially) empty train versus standing 25 minutes on an express, plus not having to elbow people out of the way to get across Paddington, is likely to be worth 10-15 minutes of time for a sizeable minority (I think 5 minutes to get off, get to Crossrail and get on a train is pushing it rather).

OK! 6 minutes!

The Crossrail platforms will be closer to platforms 1 to 9 at Paddington than those for the Circle and District at Praed Street or (now one has to go through two sets of barriers) to the H&C and Circle on Platforms 15 and 16 and marginally closer than the Bakerloo.

The Crossrail station will be under Eastbourne Terrace, right beside Paddington's old taxi road. The entrance will be through the arches alongside Platform 1 through the old Booking Hall (which is being removed) and down the stairs or escalators. So as soon as an arriving passenger is through the ticket gates at the buffer stops, they turn right, walk the width of the station and descend to Crossrail.

What could be easier?
 

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
In my experience most Reading commuters don't care whether or not they get a seat, they just want to get there as quick as possible. I've seen HSTs at Paddington with empty seats available, but it's been impossible to reach them because of the number of people wedged in the vestibules. By the way will the Maidenhead and Twyford stops in peak hour Cheltenham services remain post electrifiation?
 

HarleyDavidson

Established Member
Joined
23 Aug 2014
Messages
2,544
You pay a premium to travel on any service, whereas you can pay a lesser fare and be restricted to the slower services.

A bit like VT do on ECML & WCML, if you want to pay the full whack you can travel at anytime, want bucket shop prices you're restricted to the later, slower & less popular times of day.

So why not adopt the same principal to season/weekly tickets?
 

miami

Established Member
Joined
3 Oct 2015
Messages
3,305
So why not adopt the same principal to season/weekly tickets?

The lack of offpeak season tickets, or overnight tickets (for those working nights) is a disgrace. Shiftism at its worst.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
In my experience most Reading commuters don't care whether or not they get a seat, they just want to get there as quick as possible. I've seen HSTs at Paddington with empty seats available, but it's been impossible to reach them because of the number of people wedged in the vestibules.

That is laziness! It is deeply frustrating that no matter how many carriages are provided, on many services people choose to pile into the rear of the train (and then moan like buggery when moved). Most of the 'offenders' are going to Reading.
 

WelshBluebird

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2010
Messages
5,634
That is laziness! It is deeply frustrating that no matter how many carriages are provided, on many services people choose to pile into the rear of the train (and then moan like buggery when moved). Most of the 'offenders' are going to Reading.

To be fair this isn't just a Thames Valley problem, I had the same on a local service from Bristol to bath this week. Granted it was only a 2 carriage service, but a large amount of space in both carriages was empty (probably around a quarter of each one), yet people still decided to crowd around the doors in such a way that it was almost impossible to get on.
 

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,280
You pay a premium to travel on any service, whereas you can pay a lesser fare and be restricted to the slower services.

A bit like VT do on ECML & WCML, if you want to pay the full whack you can travel at anytime, want bucket shop prices you're restricted to the later, slower & less popular times of day.

So why not adopt the same principal to season/weekly tickets?

And which ticket do you think the overwhelming majority of people at Reading will opt for? The one that allows the quickest journeys...

Next to no one travelling between Reading and London is going to opt for a journey that takes twice as long and becomes standing room only the closer you get to London even if you don't need to change to Crossrail/Tube at Paddington.

The future mix of services between Reading and London is going to look rather more like Milton Keynes-London than what operates now, but with the proviso that there be way more GWR long-distance services available than Virgin offers at MKC. So looking something like this:

GWR long-distance equals Virgin
387 services equal LM fasts - some of which are just a couple of minutes slower than Virgin, so put on an equivalent for Reading, tell them there are 680 seats or so in a 12-car rake, with no long-distance passengers in the way, and let's see what happens
365 services on the reliefs equal LM four-stop semi-fasts
Crossrail equals LM all stations to Watford trains

Which, combined with the huge increase in overall capacity, offers far more opportunities to try to segregate the various flows of passengers than the present offer in the Thames Valley, which is basically HSTs on the fasts and Turbos on the reliefs, with the odd random HST or 180 chucked in to try to hoover up the Maidenhead crowds and cover the stations between Reading and Didcot. Encourage the Reading and Maidenhead people on to the 387s and things should look rather different to what happens now.
 
Last edited:

LexyBoy

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,478
Location
North of the rivers
An example of a complex (but maybe neccesary) way of increasing the intercity frequency would be running peak-only Swindon-Paddington services which stop at Reading and connect at Swindon with intercity services which only skip Reading during the peak.

I think that would work to an extent - and I expect that it's not far off what will happen - but I’m not sure you’d be able to change many services that way. Consider:
• Stripping out London commuter traffic, there’s much less demand for travel to/from Swindon than Reading;
• The Swindon-Paddington services require extra paths, which are in short supply;
• Cheltenham-London and Bristol-London services are among the less busy peak services – you’d probably want to run (some of) the Wales services non-stop from Swindon. The proposed 4 tph to Bristol comes close to your proposal – the 2 tph via Chippenham remains as a most-stops commuter service, whilst there’s a non-stop via Parkway for the end-to-end travellers.
• Oxford-West journeys would require 2 changes (unless a Bristol-EWR service started, which I'd love to see but understand is unlikely).

Essentially, I can’t see how an adequate service for London-Reading-Didcot commuters can be provided without continuing to use a significant number of longer-distance services – there just aren’t enough paths to add them and increase the frequency on some of the long distance routes as planned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top