Questions about overhead 25kV electrification in Liverpool Area

[NightatLaira]

Did Liverpool Lime Street to Malton yesterday an a couple of things occurred to me:

1. There's a hell of a lot of electrification around the Liverpool area - considering that it is only really VT to Euston and LM to Bham New St that use electric trains on the route - is there a reason why there is such wide scale electrification across all the platforms and Edge Hill depot and yard? Was it used for electric freight in the 70s or 80s or something? I presume all this electrification was done at the time of the electrification of the WCML?

2. When passing Edge Hill depot I saw a curious 'train wash' like structure that appeared to have a load of small electric flashes or strobe lighting in it? I was going on inside it at catenary level - does anyone know what this is? Is it some sort of pantograph testing area? There did seem to be a lot of 'danger high voltage' type signs up around it.

3. The yard around Liverpool South Parkway is fully electrified too - why is this? Was this once used for electric freight at a time as well? Or were there Euston services that used to run not via Runcorn? It seemed as if a lot of this electrification was done on a whim - and it doesn't seem heavily used.

 

[driver9000]

1. The AC electrification around Liverpool Lime Street was done in the 60s for the beginning of electric services between the north and London. The yards were included so the AC locos could get on to the depots with the stock.

3. I assume you mean the depot at Allerton. It is a former locomotive depot which housed electric locomotives at one time although I'm not sure if they were actually allocated there.

 

[NightatLaira]

If Allerton depot is the big electrified yard just to the east of Liverpool South Parkway Station yes. So how come there are two big electrified depots in Liverpool then? That's a lot of infrastructure!

Any news on the train wash like structure in Edge Hill also?

 

[driver9000]

I'm not sure what the train wash looking structure is, I've never actually been on Edge Hill depot.

As I recall Allerton looked after locomotives and carried out maintenance work (including some heavy work) and Edge Hill looked after passenger stock. Allerton is now closed having finished it's days as a wagon repair shop, Edge Hill is used as a stabling point for Northern Rail DMUs and Virgin Pendolinos - there is a new Pendolino shed there built by Alstom for servicing the trains including the new 11 car sets.

 

[Welshman]

As I remember, when they electrified the WCML in the 1960s and 1970s, they simply strung the catenary over every running-line and crossover, without remodelling the lines, yards, junctions, stations,etc.

Track modifications, such as at Crewe, came later, with the through lines allowing faster passage through the station.

Which could explain why every line in the Edge Hill area is now still equipped for electric traction, although I suspect many of them are only infrequently used, if at all now.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Yes, the WCML electrification covered everything, even barely used lines and sidings were electrified. Big difference to the electrifications from the 70s onwards that tended to include large scale remodelling and rationalisation. Of cource it did give the advantage that many alternative routes were electrified, such as all the routes around Birmingham. The fact that it was a considerable freight route and it was intended to electrify much of the freight traffic helped too. Most later electrification schemes were passenger only.

 

[NightatLaira]

Fascinating,

I just hope that in the future all the major lines of the UK will be electrified in the same way as the Liverpool and other WCML yards were - with so much of the Merseyside infrastructure there in place, with just a little bit of infill you could make a lot of services electric in the North West.

 

[ChrisCooper]

It's a shame that the policy had changed by the time the extension from Crewe was carried out, or else I'm sure we'd have seen almost the entire North West electrified. Liverpool to Manchester (likely all routes) and Manchester to Preston I'm almost certain would have been done. It was at times wasteful though as some routes and lines were electrified with little need.

 

[NightatLaira]

Yup - looking through googleearth at the Liverpool yards makes you realise ho wide-scale it all was. At least if there's ever a copper shortage they know where to head!

 

[bnsf734]

Allerton Depot had an allocation of Class 02 and 08 shunters, as well as a large allocation of DMU vehicles. It also used to stable class 304 EMU's there and the occasional main line loco. Speke yard used to get main line locos stabled.

Edge Hill has been rebuilt as a depot by Alstom who look after the Pendelino fleet there. I think the Pendelino extending and commisioning project will be done at Edge Hill.

Calv

 

[Greeny]

Did Liverpool Lime Street to Malton yesterday an a couple of things occurred to me:

1. There's a hell of a lot of electrification around the Liverpool area - considering that it is only really VT to Euston and LM to Bham New St that use electric trains on the route - is there a reason why there is such wide scale electrification across all the platforms and Edge Hill depot and yard? Was it used for electric freight in the 70s or 80s or something? I presume all this electrification was done at the time of the electrification of the WCML?

2. When passing Edge Hill depot I saw a curious 'train wash' like structure that appeared to have a load of small electric flashes or strobe lighting in it? I was going on inside it at catenary level - does anyone know what this is? Is it some sort of pantograph testing area? There did seem to be a lot of 'danger high voltage' type signs up around it.

3. The yard around Liverpool South Parkway is fully electrified too - why is this? Was this once used for electric freight at a time as well? Or were there Euston services that used to run not via Runcorn? It seemed as if a lot of this electrification was done on a whim - and it doesn't seem heavily used.

1/. At one time Edge Hill Tuebrook Sidings as it is called now (the Sidings on the Chat Moss side – which used to stretch back almost to Littlewoods on Edge Lane) was mostly wired, as was the entire old layout at Wavertree Junction. The present ‘Headshunt’ at Wavertree was the ‘Down Slow’ but now ends in a stop block and ‘bare feeder’. The Slow Lines at Wavertree fed into the wired ‘Circular Goods’ Lines and went over the Fast Lines and Downhill Sidings at Wavertree. Electric trains used just about everything at Edge Hill at one time but no longer. The ‘Gullet Sidings’ was permanently earthed a few years back following fatalities on the OLE and a few (VERY RARE) non fatal electrocutions which unfortunately I dealt with one way or another. The ‘Wapping Sidings’ was also permanently earthed a few years later following fatalities on the OLE. However, electric hauled freight was using the sidings well into the 1990’s and the ‘Wapping’ into the 2000’s. As I recall, Electrics were still using the line to Spekeland Road into the 80’s. What is now 1 & 2 ‘Crack' Sidings, and which led into the ‘Circular Goods’ line, was also in regular use by electrics. This was also permanently earthed in the 90’s following two thefts of OLE - one (failed attempt) whilst it was live - and an OLE fatality. Unless anything has changed, Downhill CS is almost entirely wired and in use. In addition, the line into Wavertree Parcels Depot was wired too. The wires on the Chat Moss Lines go up to The Bootle Branch Junction but end in a ‘block earth’ at the Track Sectioning Cabin – I’ve had a hauled electric loco through that earth with the pan up, and an OLE Inspection Saloon with the pan up ........ Baaaaannnngggg.

2/. What you saw was a washing plant. Whilst I don’t know the technicalities of it, I believe that what you were looking at was a device for monitoring pantographs on Class 390’s. Again, unless something has changed, Class 390’s are not allowed through the washer with the pantographs down as the doors cannot be detected as closed. The same 25kv applied through the Washer Road, hence all the warning signs you saw.

3/. The yard you describe, as somebody has told you, is Allerton Depot. It used to be called Allerton TMD and was almost entirely electrified with a small portion isolated for a long time until there was another OLE fatality a few years back. Up to the late 1980’s, the Maintenance Staff were authorised to carry out local isolations with special equipment in the Depot. Also, as someone has said, class 304’s were stabled there at one time but there was one road from which they were banned – the ‘Depot’ Roads. There was an ‘Arrival’, a ‘Depot’ and a ‘Carriage’ Line.

Hope you found it of help.

If I can find them, I've got some aerial pics of the area from 1968 and I'll post them.

G.

 

[NightatLaira]

That would be great - fascinating reading! So if OLEs are 'earthed' does that mean they are safer normal I presume? I just assumed that a lot of these redundant sidings had the power switched off anyway...

 

[Hydro]

I would imagine if the OLE is earthed, then it is dead and with a permanent connection to earth in case of accidental re-energisation. We used to do a similar thing when safeguarding dead 3rd rail sections, but inducing a short circuit by connecting the dead con rail to both running rails using special short circuit straps. If the juice was accidentally turned on, then the straps would instantly short out the juice rail and blow the circuit breakers.

 

[Greeny]

Please NEVER assume that OLE is redundant or just turned off. The only time you or I can be sure that OLE, or 3rd rail, is off is if we were in possession of a properly issued ‘Permit to Work’. Other than that, always treat it as live. I could tell you some real horror stories of accidents through wrong assumptions. Earthing for work does make the OLE safe but ONLY between the earths. The only other exception I know of is the wire between the earthed pantographs of an OLE wiring train.

Hydro’s description of a permanent earth is just about right – effectively it is a section insulator with the earth on the side required to be ‘dead’. A ‘Block Earth’ will tear the head off a pantograph and you know when an electric train has passed under one !.

Attached is an aerial ‘photo of Edge Hill in about 1968. To the right is Downhill CS washer road which you passed on the train, and to the left you can see the west ends of Edge Hill platforms. On the top right you can see the Bootle Lines and the line round to Edge Lane and Olive Mount (not wired).

Everything between on both sides is railway – hope those viewing found it helpful – any questions drop in a post or PM.

G.

Or there will be a pic when I figure out how to do it !!.

PS. if you enlarge it on your PC viewer, you can actually see a derailed freight train close to Edge Hill Station.

G