Questions about driving trains.

[Nic nic]

Got a couple of questions for any 66 drivers. Please forgive my naivety but am I assuming right that when braking a large freight train it would take several seconds for all the brakes to apply the whole length of the train?
Equally does it take around the same time for them to release again, if so I would imagine braking a fully loaded freight train is a skill that would take a while to master.
Secondly (please excuse my naivety again) how do you move off on gradients (both uphill and downhill) is it a similar procedure to a motor vehicle or is it complex?

 

[A-driver]

Got a couple of questions for any 66 drivers. Please forgive my naivety but am I assuming right that when braking a large freight train it would take several seconds for all the brakes to apply the whole length of the train?
Equally does it take around the same time for them to release again, if so I would imagine braking a fully loaded freight train is a skill that would take a while to master.
Secondly (please excuse my naivety again) how do you move off on gradients (both uphill and downhill) is it a similar procedure to a motor vehicle or is it complex?

I don't know if your second question is specific to 66s, which I know nothing about, but generally with 'hill starts' you simply apply power with the holding brake applied and once you feel the motors pushing you release the brake.

 

[Nic nic]

I don't know if your second question is specific to 66s, which I know nothing about, but generally with 'hill starts' you simply apply power with the holding brake applied and once you feel the motors pushing you release the brake.

Thanks similar to a hillstart in a car but throw the clutch out of the equation. I guess downhill you just leave it in a very low gearing and dab the brakes as needed?

 

[A-driver]

Thanks similar to a hillstart in a car but throw the clutch out of the equation. I guess downhill you just leave it in a very low gearing and dab the brakes as needed?

Not many trains have gears now so would be a case of coasting according to route knowledge. Has to be a fairly severe gradient for many trains to need the brakes on downhills.

 

[notadriver]

Class 172s have a 6 speed ZF Eco-life autobox.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Not many trains have gears now so would be a case of coasting according to route knowledge. Has to be a fairly severe gradient for many trains to need the brakes on downhills.

Really? You'll be surprised how well 450/444's find the 13707 in 1 between Farnborough & Brookwood and need a brush of the brake to keep them in check.

Yes it's the world's most obtuse railway summit!

 

[A-driver]

Really? You'll be surprised how well 450/444's find the 13707 in 1 between Farnborough & Brookwood and need a brush of the brake to keep them in check.



Yes it's the world's most obtuse railway summit!

There certainly are areas where you need the brake-Highbury to Essex road needs constant splashes of step 1 to avoid significantly passing 30mph, but in general I find it rare (granted mainly at high speed) to need much brake. I suppose it's driving style as much as anything. Stevenage to Hitchin is downhill. If you accelerate to 75mph(slow line) you will need some brake to avoid speeding. I accelerate to just over 70mph and leave it to roll. By the time it starts to creep over 75 it's time to brake for Hitchin anyway.

 

[notadriver]

I've discovered some trains roll better than others.

 

[Nic nic]

Thanks for the many replies guys.
Getting back to time taken for brakes to apply. Again I am guessing they are air brakes which are controlled by a master cylinder on the loco itself, hence why I suspect the longer the train the longer the time delay for the brakes to apply along the entire length of the train.
Am I thinking correct? I personally know how big a problem an air leak on a truck is I can imagine it would be a complete can of worms on a train.

 

[najaB]

Getting back to time taken for brakes to apply. Again I am guessing they are air brakes which are controlled by a master cylinder on the loco itself, hence why I suspect the longer the train the longer the time delay for the brakes to apply along the entire length of the train.
Am I thinking correct?

Yes. UK freight trains do not (at least as far as I know) use ECP brakes which means the brake application 'message' travels as a serial change in pressure from the locomotive through each wagon. ECP brakes are in common use in America where some trains are well over a mile long.

 

[FordFocus]

Secondly (please excuse my naivety again) how do you move off on gradients (both uphill and downhill) is it a similar procedure to a motor vehicle or is it complex?

For the combined power brake units (just one lever in the cab)..

Some trains (especially EMUs) can instantly take power once it's selected from the power handle, so there would be little need to keep the brake on with the hillstart button that can be situated on the power brake handle or a button on the desk.

Some DMUs can take a few seconds for it to start revving so you need to hold the hillstart button which will keep the brakes on Step 1 (or the mimumal initial braking selection) once you feel the train pulling away you simply release the button and away you go!

When you have two handles in the cab, you leave the brake in step 1 as there is no hillstart button then release once it moves.

Hope this helps.

 

[flash]

For the combined power brake units (just one lever in the cab)..

When you have two handles in the cab, you leave the brake in step 1 as there is no hillstart button then release once it moves.

Hope this helps.

Some knowledgeable people about...... If I leave the brake in initial (step 1) 16000hp will not move the train! My actions are, take power - enough to stop the train rolling backwards, ensure traction has been applied, release brake apply more power when train is moving.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Thanks for the many replies guys.
Getting back to time taken for brakes to apply. Again I am guessing they are air brakes which are controlled by a master cylinder on the loco itself, hence why I suspect the longer the train the longer the time delay for the brakes to apply along the entire length of the train.
Am I thinking correct? I personally know how big a problem an air leak on a truck is I can imagine it would be a complete can of worms on a train.

You've got the idea of it yes, some wagons are better than others, the fuel train I drive sometimes the wagon brakes are almost instant and they release almost instantly, others take quite a while to apply/release, you have an airflow gauge in the cab which helps with gauging when they are released, so not only does it take mastering the braking technique it takes getting used to the different brakes on different types of wagons.
With regard to hill starts, with brake applied apply power, when the amps start to rise release the brakes and once they are released should start to pull away, sometimes requires a few notches of power depending on train weight/how steep the incline is - again experience tells you how to handle it.

 

[class 9]

Got a couple of questions for any 66 drivers. Please forgive my naivety but am I assuming right that when braking a large freight train it would take several seconds for all the brakes to apply the whole length of the train?
Equally does it take around the same time for them to release again, if so I would imagine braking a fully loaded freight train is a skill that would take a while to master.
Secondly (please excuse my naivety again) how do you move off on gradients (both uphill and downhill) is it a similar procedure to a motor vehicle or is it complex?

Freight trains run with the brakes in 2 different settings, goods timings and passenger timings.
When running in goods timing the brake takes considerably longer to apply/ release.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Slightly off the wall question...

Are there certain routes that drivers hate? For example, I was on secondment to Slough a little while ago, and I thought of the drivers who run the Slough - Windsor services. Short journey, no stops, slow speed - when a driver sees this route on their diagram they must raise their eyes to the heavens.

I guess a lot depends on whether you spend all day going from Slough to Windsor and back, or whether this is mixed in with other diagrams.

 

[driver_m]

Slightly off the wall question...

Are there certain routes that drivers hate? For example, I was on secondment to Slough a little while ago, and I thought of the drivers who run the Slough - Windsor services. Short journey, no stops, slow speed - when a driver sees this route on their diagram they must raise their eyes to the heavens.

I guess a lot depends on whether you spend all day going from Slough to Windsor and back, or whether this is mixed in with other diagrams.

Yeah. Even on long distance. I don't particularly like going via the West Midlands due to the congestion, the Slow track speeds and New St station. Northern staff mention hadfield services in less than glowing terms.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Slightly off the wall question...

Are there certain routes that drivers hate? For example, I was on secondment to Slough a little while ago, and I thought of the drivers who run the Slough - Windsor services. Short journey, no stops, slow speed - when a driver sees this route on their diagram they must raise their eyes to the heavens.

I guess a lot depends on whether you spend all day going from Slough to Windsor and back, or whether this is mixed in with other diagrams.

I have certain jobs I hate but can't say I really hate any routes I sign. I have favourite routes, and there's areas that can be difficult, as suggested West Mids can be hard work. The worst route I've ever driven with a freight train is the North London line, just horrid, luckily I don't work round there and only drove on it as a trainee driver.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted