Questions about a RailSail ticket to Belfast

[jednick]

I live in Worcester and want to visit both Dublin and Belfast by ferry and train.

I know the whole journey is going to take me maybe 12 to 13 hours, but I don't mind. One way of going from Worcester to Belfast would be to go on the route Worcester - Birmingham - Glasgow - Ayr - bus to Cairnryan - ferry to Belfast. I might go that way that on the return journey.

I've seen an excellent value ticket, an advance purchase SailRail for one way from Worcester to Belfast for £55, which is routed Worcester - Smethwick GB - Sandwell & Dudley - Crewe - Chester - Holyhead - ferry to Dublin - train Dublin to Belfast.

My questions are:

1. There are several tight connections. Who is responsible if I miss them, is it the individual train operators? (I'll be using London Midland, Virgin and Arriva Trains Wales). So, given there are lots of tight connections, what exactly do I do if I miss one, do I have to go into a ticket office to sort it out, or can I just get on the next available train and explain what's happened? Also, do I assume If I miss the ferry at Holyhead, I'll just have to get the next one a few hours later?

2. One of the tickets in question gives only a 30-minute connection time at Holyhead. The ferry company say I have to book into my ferry a minimum of 30 minutes before departure. I know the train station in Holyhead is right next to the ferry terminal, but even if my train arrives into Holyhead on time, isn't this not giving me enough time to get to the ferry? That's even assuming I get to Holyhead on time and it's not a minute late.

3. I'll be staying in Belfast for at least one night, but I want to see Dublin too. This ticket in question gives me just over an hour to get from Dublin's ferry terminal to Dublin Connelly train station. This obviously wouldn't give me enough time to have a look around Dublin. So, can I get the next train from Dublin to Belfast, two hours later than than planned, so I can have a look around Dublin? [Basically, what I'm asking is - on this advance purchase ticket, would the booked trains that I must travel on be the Virgin Trains service from Sandwell & Dudley to Crewe and/or the Arriva Trains Wales train from Chester to Holyhead, and I can take any train from Dublin to Belfast as long as it's before the day ends?]

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi there,
As you've seen the Sailrail tickets are excellent value.

It is a through ticket and if there's a delay somewhere then it should not be a problem. A friend recently was delayed on the London-Holyhead leg of such a ticket and it was endorsed over to the next ferry without any problems.
Of course, these are a bit unusual tickets and it may be that little bit more challenging to find someone who can make the change/endorsement.

I personally wouldn't be cutting the connection times too fine. The ferry companies aren't usually too strict about exactly a 30 minute cut off but it's not something I'd rely on. I've never missed a ferry yet, despite pushing my luck a few times, but I know it will happen...


The Dublin-Belfast service is pretty laid back. I don't think that you get a specific reservation for this bit. And if you do the system here is pretty flexible and if you say nicely that you just missed a ferry earlier they're likely to have no trouble.


Normally I travel Belfast - Cairnryan - Ayr - Glasgow - London. I find this simpler than having to mess about in Dublin. Of course, if you want to spend time in Dublin that's not an issue!


At the risk of being almost sacrilegious on a railway forum, have you thought about using SailRail one way and flying the other? That's what I often recommend to people as they don't have to spend too much time on the train for a long weekend?

Enjoy your visit over here,
Mr Toad

 

[jednick]

Hi there,

At the risk of being almost sacrilegious on a railway forum, have you thought about using SailRail one way and flying the other? That's what I often recommend to people as they don't have to spend too much time on the train for a long weekend?

Enjoy your visit over here,
Mr Toad

Thanks. I currently have no passport, driving licence or other photo I.D., so I wouldn't be allowed to board a plane, so the ferry is presently my only option. Thanks for the advice anyway.

 

[najaB]

1. There are several tight connections. Who is responsible if I miss them, is it the individual train operators? (I'll be using London Midland, Virgin and Arriva Trains Wales). So, given there are lots of tight connections, what exactly do I do if I miss one, do I have to go into a ticket office to sort it out, or can I just get on the next available train and explain what's happened? Also, do I assume If I miss the ferry at Holyhead, I'll just have to get the next one a few hours later?

Like any other ticket - if there are delays once you commence travel the TOCs concerned must get you to your destination.

2. One of the tickets in question gives only a 30-minute connection time at Holyhead. The ferry company say I have to book into my ferry a minimum of 30 minutes before departure. I know the train station in Holyhead is right next to the ferry terminal, but even if my train arrives into Holyhead on time, isn't this not giving me enough time to get to the ferry? That's even assuming I get to Holyhead on time and it's not a minute late.

The check-in desk is in the same building as the train station and they know about any train delays. In my experience you'll be fine assuming that the train isn't more than about 10 minutes late.

3. I'll be staying in Belfast for at least one night, but I want to see Dublin too. This ticket in question gives me just over an hour to get from Dublin's ferry terminal to Dublin Connelly train station. This obviously wouldn't give me enough time to have a look around Dublin. So, can I get the next train from Dublin to Belfast, two hours later than than planned, so I can have a look around Dublin?

When I did it, they never even asked to see the reservation for the Enterprise service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks. I currently have no passport, driving licence or other photo I.D., so I wouldn't be allowed to board a plane, so the ferry is presently my only option. Thanks for the advice anyway.

Some airlines will accept Validate UK or CitizenCards if you want to get one.

 

[jednick]

Thanks, really helpful

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks. I currently have no passport, driving licence or other photo I.D., so I wouldn't be allowed to board a plane, so the ferry is presently my only option. Thanks for the advice anyway.

How do you plan on satisfying Republic of Ireland immigration that you are a UK citizen and therefore exempt from showing your passport?

 

[jednick]

How do you plan on satisfying Republic of Ireland immigration that you are a UK citizen and therefore exempt from showing your passport?

I am assured that a utility bill, credit card, or birth certificate is sufficient.

http://www.stenaline.co.uk/FAQs/pas...-irish-citizen-do-i-need-a-passport-to-travel

 

[swt class 450]

Just to point out it would probably be better to get a train to or from Stranraer rather than Ayr as Stranraer is much closer to Cairnryan ferry port than Ayr is.

 

[najaB]

Just to point out it would probably be better to get a train to or from Stranraer rather than Ayr as Stranraer is much closer to Cairnryan ferry port than Ayr is.

The SailRail ticket routed via Cairnryan is specifically not valid to Stranraer. The OP would have to pay for a separate Ayr - Stranraer ticket and a bus/taxi to the ferry port.

 

[Tetchytyke]

How do you plan on satisfying Republic of Ireland immigration that you are a UK citizen and therefore exempt from showing your passport?

It's only at Dublin Airport where that is an issue.

 

[button_boxer]

Just to point out it would probably be better to get a train to or from Stranraer rather than Ayr as Stranraer is much closer to Cairnryan ferry port than Ayr is.

No, the SailRail ticket includes a bus transfer between Cairnryan port and Ayr station, it is not valid via Stranraer.

 

[najaB]

It's only at Dublin Airport where that is an issue.

I don't know if that's necessarily true - I was asked to show ID/proof of residence at Rosslare (and interestingly at Birkenhead having arrived from Belfast).

 

[Flying Snail]

I am assured that a utility bill, credit card, or birth certificate is sufficient.

http://www.stenaline.co.uk/FAQs/pas...-irish-citizen-do-i-need-a-passport-to-travel

None of those would really be sufficient if they wanted to make an issue out of it as it is up to you to prove you are entitled to CTA movement without a passport. Having said that assuming you are white with a British accent and aren't of interest to them for other reasons you'll have little trouble even if stopped.

It's only at Dublin Airport where that is an issue.

Not true, GNIB (immigration) and customs perform checks at both Rosslare and Dublin ports although they don't screen every arrival. They also perform spot checks on NI-ROI public transport as GB-NI-ROI is a common enough route for illegal immigration into ROI.

Some airlines will accept Validate UK or CitizenCards if you want to get one.

Ryanair only accept passports, AFAIR all other airlines on ROI/NI-GB will accept certain other forms of ID.

Aer Lingus rules are:

If you’re a citizen of Ireland and/or the U.K., you need to carry some form of official photo identification in order to be able to fly with us.

Note: To travel between Ireland and the U.K. with photo identification other than a passport, you must have been born in Ireland or the U.K. and also be a citizen of either country.

The following forms of photo identification are acceptable:

Valid passport
Driver’s licence with photo
International student card
National ID card/government issued photo ID cards
Health insurance cards with photo/social security cards with photo
Bus pass with photo
Work ID with photo
Citizens of Ireland and the U.K. under the age of 16 don’t need a photo ID if travelling with their parent/guardian.

Citizens of countries other than Ireland and the U.K. must produce a valid passport and visa where applicable for travel between Ireland and the United Kingdom.

 

[swt class 450]

The SailRail ticket routed via Cairnryan is specifically not valid to Stranraer. The OP would have to pay for a separate Ayr - Stranraer ticket and a bus/taxi to the ferry port.

No, the SailRail ticket includes a bus transfer between Cairnryan port and Ayr station, it is not valid via Stranraer.

That seems like a crazy arrangement. Surely it would be much better for the ticket to include the train all the way to Stranraer and then the bus from Stranraer to Cairnryan ferry port. This would mean passengers would travel to the closest station by train and have a much shorter journey by bus. Ayr to Cairnryan is about four or five times further than Stranraer to Cairnryan.

 

[Flying Snail]

1. There are several tight connections. Who is responsible if I miss them, is it the individual train operators? (I'll be using London Midland, Virgin and Arriva Trains Wales). So, given there are lots of tight connections, what exactly do I do if I miss one, do I have to go into a ticket office to sort it out, or can I just get on the next available train and explain what's happened? Also, do I assume If I miss the ferry at Holyhead, I'll just have to get the next one a few hours later?

Same as any other train delay with advances, the only thing to note is that a sailrail on Irish Ferries is not valid with Stena Line and vice-versa. If the next sailing is with the other company you will have to get the rail ticket office at Holyhead to swap the ticket for you and possibly pay a supplement if transferring to the IF Swift sailing.

The 13.50 Stena in particular can catch the unwary out, people for this not paying attention and joining the queue for the 14.10 IF instead. If a train delay causes you to miss the former the rail office will transfer the ticket, if you do it by yourself you have to pay for a new IF ticket (about £30) or wait for the next Stena at 20.30.

2. One of the tickets in question gives only a 30-minute connection time at Holyhead. The ferry company say I have to book into my ferry a minimum of 30 minutes before departure. I know the train station in Holyhead is right next to the ferry terminal, but even if my train arrives into Holyhead on time, isn't this not giving me enough time to get to the ferry? That's even assuming I get to Holyhead on time and it's not a minute late.

They won't close the check-in on the dot, particularly if the connection is delayed. All sailings out of Holyhead use a bus transfer from terminal to ship, 15 mns before departure would be the latest they would normally run this, if it hasn't gone they may accommodate latecomers.

3. I'll be staying in Belfast for at least one night, but I want to see Dublin too. This ticket in question gives me just over an hour to get from Dublin's ferry terminal to Dublin Connelly train station. This obviously wouldn't give me enough time to have a look around Dublin. So, can I get the next train from Dublin to Belfast, two hours later than than planned, so I can have a look around Dublin? [Basically, what I'm asking is - on this advance purchase ticket, would the booked trains that I must travel on be the Virgin Trains service from Sandwell & Dudley to Crewe and/or the Arriva Trains Wales train from Chester to Holyhead, and I can take any train from Dublin to Belfast as long as it's before the day ends?]

There is no problem with that, GB rail reservations are not applicable to Irish Rail/NIR services. Through Sailrail will be valid on any service on the day.

 

[AlterEgo]

All sailings out of Holyhead use a bus transfer from terminal to ship

How long has this been the case? When I last travelled a few years ago we boarded by jetty, pretty much straight from the railway station/ferry terminal building. There was definitely no bus.

 

[Flying Snail]

That seems like a crazy arrangement. Surely it would be much better for the ticket to include the train all the way to Stranraer and then the bus from Stranraer to Cairnryan ferry port. This would mean passengers would travel to the closest station by train and have a much shorter journey by bus. Ayr to Cairnryan is about four or five times further than Stranraer to Cairnryan.

Stena Line provide the coach transfer, they decided following the move from Stranraer to use Ayr as the railhead not Stranraer.

Ayr having a high frequency service is probably the main reason, there is no longer any need to make the Stranraer line connect to sailings or have onward travel issues when the ferry is delayed.

 

[bangor-toad]

That seems like a crazy arrangement. Surely it would be much better for the ticket to include the train all the way to Stranraer and then the bus from Stranraer to Cairnryan ferry port. This would mean passengers would travel to the closest station by train and have a much shorter journey by bus. Ayr to Cairnryan is about four or five times further than Stranraer to Cairnryan.

When the ferries left from Stranraer it was obvious what to do.
Now the ferries have moved up to Cairnryan it's different.

Ayr - Stranraer on the train is 60 miles by train (spot the error in Table T218). It generally takes a little under 90 minutes. Then there's about a 15 minute bus ride to the ferry terminal.
Compare that to the Ayr - Cairnryan bus. That's scheduled to take 75 minutes and often seems to take only just over an hour.

The coach service from Ayr is quicker and there are a lot more trains to Ayr than going all the way to Stranraer. Missing / cancelling a train to Stranraer is a real nuisance with few or no alternatives. Missing / cancelling a train to Ayr is a bit annoying but unless you've cut it really fine then there another train in not too much time.
It does all seem quite mad I'd admit. There are usually only a few passengers on the coach. Outside of holiday periods I've been one of about 6 people on the coach. In some respects I'm amazed it's still there but I'm pleased it is and use reasonably often when I don't want to fly or drive.


If you *really* don't want to do the Ayr-Cairnryan coach then you can get the train all the way down and the 350 bus to the ferry. But you will a) need to pay for the train past Ayr + the bus and b) leave a lot earlier.

All the best,
Mr Toad

 

[Flying Snail]

How long has this been the case? When I last travelled a few years ago we boarded by jetty, pretty much straight from the railway station/ferry terminal building. There was definitely no bus.

The HSS was the only ship that docked beside the terminal, it last sailed in 2014, the larger conventional ferries are far to big to fit the inner harbour, even if they did convert the old HSS linkspan.

The original ferry berth was adjacent to platform 1, this was abandoned when the HSS started operation and is now permanently blocked by the road and footbridges subsequently built.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not true, GNIB (immigration) and customs perform checks at both Rosslare and Dublin ports although they don't screen every arrival. They also perform spot checks on NI-ROI public transport as GB-NI-ROI is a common enough route for illegal immigration into ROI.

To clarify, I was referring specifically to the situation at Dublin Airport where all arriving passengers are sent through the passport control, regardless of where they have travelled from.

I'm well aware that the Gardai do perform spot checks, I've been on the X1 from Belfast when it has been pulled over by the Gardai just over the border, with several people removed from the coach for not having papers.

 

[AlterEgo]

The HSS was the only ship that docked beside the terminal, it last sailed in 2014, the larger conventional ferries are far to big to fit the inner harbour, even if they did convert the old HSS linkspan.

The original ferry berth was adjacent to platform 1, this was abandoned when the HSS started operation and is now permanently blocked by the road and footbridges subsequently built.

Ah yes, I used the HSS, that explains it.

 

[island]

British Airways does not require any ID to fly within the UK with only hand luggage.

 

[TUC]

British Airways does not require any ID to fly within the UK with only hand luggage.

Yes they do! It's basic airport security.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes they do! It's basic airport security.

No they don't. Even flying out of Heathrow you need present no ID, the only check made is that the person who swipes the boarding card at security is the same person who presents themselves at the gate.

 

[causton]

Yes they do! It's basic airport security.

No they don't. I have no passport, no driving licence, and flew from Glasgow to Heathrow and the only thing I showed was my boarding pass on my phone!

 

[island]

Which is as it should be. It should not matter a jot who is travelling once they have been adequately screened for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries. Identity checks by the airline are a matter for ensuring the passenger should be admissible at the destination, which is irrelevant on a domestic flight.

 

[sheff1]

Which is as it should be. It should not matter a jot who is travelling once they have been adequately screened for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries. Identity checks by the airline are a matter for ensuring the passenger should be admissible at the destination, which is irrelevant on a domestic flight.

Not always.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not always.

When is it not? Am I missing some sort of loophole?

 

[sheff1]

When passengers need to be checked for Football Banning Orders is one occasion.

I know for a fact that ID checks have been in place when England have played in Belfast. Whether checks are made for matches such as Newcastle v Chelsea or Southampton v Newcastle is probably less likely, but travellers should be aware of the possibility.

 

[TUC]

It states on the British Airways webpage http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/passports-visas-and-api :

Identification on UK domestic flights
If you are flying solely within the UK, including Northern Ireland, you do not need a passport but we advise that you carry photographic identification with you when travelling, such as your passport or driving licence. This may be requested at certain points in your journey. Children under the age of 16 years do not require identification to travel within the UK.


Identification on flights between the UK and Republic of Ireland
If you are a citizen of the UK or Republic of Ireland who was born in that country you do not need a passport to travel between the two countries but you do require some form of photographic identification, such as a driving licence.

All other travellers require a valid passport to travel between the two countries.