Questioned by TfL Ticket Inspector

[MetroC]

As the title says, me and my cousin were questioned by a ticket inspector on the bus, and I told him to report me, as I was the one who told me cousin to use my sister's oyster card (16+ zip card). He is new to the UK and is planning on attending university at the end of September. I have since received the letter asking for an explanation and sent it off. I admitted that it was my fault and that I did not know how serious of an offence this was, but I said I still knew it was wrong and that I should not have done it.

I'm 19 and in university and I'm terrified. I was apologetic and tried to explain the situation as best as I could. I'm now thinking of more things I could have said and it's making me feel more and more depressed. I don't want to get a criminal record.

I didn't mention that I had no clue that you could buy an oyster from the store and use that (truth). I told them I made a bad decision in the moment and had no excuse other than I made a stupid mistake. I asked them to not take it to court.

Any advice?

 

[Buzby]

From what you say, it wasn’t you who is of interest, but your cousin who used the card - I’m assuming you had a valid ticket/pass to travel? The fact you suggested the card was used fraudulently could not be easily proved - but your sister could be liable if she knowingly admits that she knew her card was being used in this way. Others may suggest a way to mitigate the error, but I don’t recall anyone giving mislead ing advice on using a ticket incorrectly would be more liable than the person who actually did the defrauding!

 

[MetroC]

From what you say, it wasn’t you who is of interest, but your cousin who used the card - I’m assuming you had a valid ticket/pass to travel? The fact you suggested the card was used fraudulently could not be easily proved - but your sister could be liable if she knowingly admits that she knew her card was being used in this way. Others may suggest a way to mitigate the error, but I don’t recall anyone giving mislead ing advice on using a ticket incorrectly would be more liable than the person who actually did the defrauding!

Yeah, I had my own oyster. My cousin literally just came to the UK so I don't want him to get in trouble for something which was my fault. The card was not used to save money or for fraud, my sister is simply the only other person in the home with an oyster so we just decided to let my cousin use it. For some reason I sometimes was giving him my card to tap while I tapped my sister's card, does this change anything? Id guess not since the cards would have been tapped either way and one of them is mine so my sister's would logically be his.

The inspector reported me because I told him to right after he caught us and asked us which one of us used it. I told him afterwards that I had my own oyster and that my sisters one was for him and he said it was too late to change it now but to tell them this in the explanation letter, which I did. I'm not sure what's going to happen now.

 

[Snow1964]

I didn't mention in the explanation that my sisters oyster card was used by my cousin 4 times the day before we were caught.

Are we talking about an Oyster card, normally used by your sister that had credit, and your cousin used it as it was only Oyster card in the house. This should not be a problem.

Or are we discussing a zip card, a personalised card with your sisters name and photo, which it is against the rules to lend out, even to her brother.

 

[MetroC]

Are we talking about an Oyster card, normally used by your sister that had credit, and your cousin used it as it was only Oyster card in the house. This should not be a problem.

Or are we discussing a zip card, a personalised card with your sisters name and photo, which it is against the rules to lend out, even to her brother.

It was her zip card unfortunately, with her photo on it.

 

[Buzby]

If I understand this correctly, you used your sister’s Zip card and your cousin used yours? Was yours a standard Oyster where you loaded it with credit to use as Pay As You Go or a similar Zip or concession card. If the former, then you only have one problem to address, but if the latter this may show up as two cards being misused and a greater problem. From what you say, your cousin used yours whilst you tapped using your sister’s card, making the misuse your sole responsibility ?

 

[fandroid]

If I understand this correctly, you used your sister’s Zip card and your cousin used yours? Was yours a standard Oyster where you loaded it with credit to use as Pay As You Go or a similar Zip or concession card. If the former, then you only have one problem to address, but if the latter this may show up as two cards being misused and a greater problem. From what you say, your cousin used yours whilst you tapped using your sister’s card, making the misuse your sole responsibility ?

It's explained in the thread title and post #1. The OP persuaded the cousin to use the sister's 16+ Zip card.

Later posts explain that there had previously been some swapping about, but on the day the inspector was told the cousin had used the sister's 16+ zip and the OP had used their own Oyster

 

[MetroC]

It's explained in the thread title and post #1. The OP persuaded the cousin to use the sister's 16+ Zip card.

Later posts explain that there had previously been some swapping about, but on the day the inspector was told the cousin had used the sister's 16+ zip and the OP had used their own Oyster

My main reason for posting here is because I just don't know what tfl is gonna say about this situation since it's a bit weird. I really don't want a criminal record for such a stupid decision I made. Did I break any rules or laws by telling him to use the card? If he's the one who will be liable in the end, surely they can't jump onto him since he is new to the country and only doing what I said?

 

[30907]

Two questions come to mind (let's assume the Zip 16+ was used by the cousin for simplicity):
1. was the Oyster card loaded with a Travelcard (which only the holder would be allowed to use?) or just PAYG credit?
2. was the OP's cousin 18 or more at the time of travel?

(A 17-year-old, wherever they live, would be entitled to their own Zip card.)

 

[MetroC]

Two questions come to mind (let's assume the Zip 16+ was used by the cousin for simplicity):
1. was the Oyster card loaded with a Travelcard (which only the holder would be allowed to use?) or just PAYG credit?
2. was the OP's cousin 18 or more at the time of travel?

(A 17-year-old, wherever they live, would be entitled to their own Zip card.)

Yeah, my cousin used my sister's and I used mine, this is causing unnecessary confusion.

1. I'm not really sure what you're asking me, it's her 16+ card with her picture on it and I think it's either discounted or free on the bus? Not sure exactly. If you meant my oyster then I have a 18+ student card, it has my picture on it.
2. He is over 18, but he is completely new to the country and only following what I told him. So I'm hoping they'll take this into account and see that it was just my stupid mistake.

 

[Danberto]

I think the confusion arises as the OP refers to their cousin using the Zip card (and used it prior to being stopped) and her requesting that she should be the one to blame for the fare evasion and not her cousin.

In the 1st paragraph the OP states that she responded to the letter asking for an explanation. Is she the person being investigated and not the cousin?

If the cousin is 'a minor' then Transport for London (TfL) state on their website that they do not prosecute minors. If however the OP is the one that TfL are interested in then being over 19 the normal procedure will occur.

TfL receive the letter containing the explanation
They decide whether or not to proceed with the prosecution.
- If they decide not to prosecute, they will either issue a warning or make an offer to the fare evader to settle the matter before court is reached. Be aware that TfL appear to rarely offer the non-court option and proceed to prosecution.

Settle out of court
TfL will be in contact with the fare evader with their 'offer'. If this is not taken up the case will go to prosecution.

Case reaches Court
Should you plead guilty or be found guilty you will have a criminal conviction against your name.
You will also have:
A fine imposed by the court. This will be based on what your income is adjudged to be.
A surcharge which is levied at I think 40% of the value of the fine. This was previously called the 'victim surcharge'.
The price of the evaded fare payable to TfL.
A payment towards the costs of Tfl for bringing the case.

Something that does not appear to have been mentioned upthread - The sister being the registered Zip card holder should expect questions from TfL as to why someone else was using her card. My understanding of the Zip card conditions on the TfL website is that the sister will need to communicate with them in order to use this facility in the future.

 

[MetroC]

I think the confusion arises as the OP refers to their cousin using the Zip card (and used it prior to being stopped) and her requesting that she should be the one to blame for the fare evasion and not her cousin.

In the 1st paragraph the OP states that she responded to the letter asking for an explanation. Is she the person being investigated and not the cousin?

If the cousin is 'a minor' then Transport for London (TfL) state on their website that they do not prosecute minors. If however the OP is the one that TfL are interested in then being over 19 the normal procedure will occur.

TfL receive the letter containing the explanation
They decide whether or not to proceed with the prosecution.
- If they decide not to prosecute, they will either issue a warning or make an offer to the fare evader to settle the matter before court is reached. Be aware that TfL appear to rarely offer the non-court option and proceed to prosecution.

Settle out of court
TfL will be in contact with the fare evader with their 'offer'. If this is not taken up the case will go to prosecution.

Case reaches Court
Should you plead guilty or be found guilty you will have a criminal conviction against your name.
You will also have:
A fine imposed by the court. This will be based on what your income is adjudged to be.
A surcharge which is levied at I think 40% of the value of the fine. This was previously called the 'victim surcharge'.
The price of the evaded fare payable to TfL.
A payment towards the costs of Tfl for bringing the case.

Something that does not appear to have been mentioned upthread - The sister being the registered Zip card holder should expect questions from TfL as to why someone else was using her card. My understanding of the Zip card conditions on the TfL website is that the sister will need to communicate with them in order to use this facility in the future.

My cousin used the zip card, when the inspector questioned us I said it was me and to report me. I explained pretty much everything about my cousin being new to the country and me telling him to use the zip card in the email I sent to them in response to their letter asking for an explanation. I hope this clears things up. I did bring up that it wasn't actually me to the inspector and he responded by saying that I should just explain everything when I respond to the letter, which is what I did.

 

[AlterEgo]

My cousin used the zip card, when the inspector questioned us I said it was me and to report me. I explained pretty much everything about my cousin being new to the country and me telling him to use the zip card in the email I sent to them in response to their letter asking for an explanation. I hope this clears things up. I did bring up that it wasn't actually me to the inspector and he responded by saying that I should just explain everything when I respond to the letter, which is what I did.

You haven't committed an offence; your cousin has - do they have your cousin's details?

 

[fandroid]

I'm certain that TfL would struggle to charge the OP with anything because all they are guilty of is giving stupid advice.

Do others think that the best thing might be for the OP to write (when TfL write to them or the cousin) and explain everything, expressing deep remorse, in order try to keep the cousin out of court?

 

[JBuchananGB]

So the situation is that the OP travelled with a valid pass. The cousin, male, aged 18, travelled with a Zip 16+ card issued to a female. If the inspector has the name and valid address for the male who committed the offence, then the matter should be dealt with by him. The OP has already written to TfL in an attempt to explain this. A better position would be for the 18-year old male who committed the offence to communicate with TfL. I don't think there is a process whereby TfL can deal with (punish, prosecute etc.) a 3rd party (the OP in this case) who, as has been said, as done nothing other than give poor advice.

 

[island]

I'm certain that TfL would struggle to charge the OP with anything because all they are guilty of is giving stupid advice.

I think this is probably correct, but not certain; for example, if the OP handed the offending Zip card to the cousin, they would potentially be guilty of transferring a ticket enabling someone to travel without paying the correct fare.

 

[Danberto]

MetroC thank you for your reply.

I think that it is always useful to look at this from the point of view of the transport company. I would suspect that they deal with thousands of fare evasion issues and have heard about all sorts of mistakes. Having said that I would guess that your case isn't a common type of example although TfL may feel that they have addressed the issue of visitors to London by https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/visiting-london/visitor-oyster-card

TfL may look at this as a case of someone using a card they were not entitled to in order to obtain free/discounted travel rather than pay the appropriate fare. On the other hand, they may have an internal policy for such a situation where a 'warning' is sufficient. We do not know if this isn't publicised.

The above comments in other posts regarding your male cousin are relevant as he is the one who was fare evading. If the worst arrives and he is prosecuted you could of course contribute monies to him as this would be a private matter and nothing to do with TfL.

 

[30907]

1. I'm not really sure what you're asking me, it's her 16+ card with her picture on it and I think it's either discounted or free on the bus?

Thanks, and sorry I wasn't clear.

2. He is over 18, but he is completely new to the country and only following what I told him. So I'm hoping they'll take this into account and see that it was just my stupid mistake.

So he used the card to get half-price travel which he couldn't have been entitled to.
Others have picked up the implications for him and the card holder.