Question about Southern Region semaphore signals

[Islineclear3_1]

I remember the days when these used to be lit by paraffin lamps. When were they replaced by electric lamps (and back-up battery) please?

 

[John Webb]

I've had a quick look through my copy copy of G Pryer's "A Pictorial Record of Southern Signals" (Oxford Publishing Co., 1977). He does not make any specific comment on this, but it would seem that generally when a line was electrified without updating the signals to colour lights, the semaphores were fitted with electrically-powered lamps. So the conversion was a gradual process. Interestingly none of my other books on the history of signalling give any indication, other than there were electrically-lit semaphores on the Liverpool Overhead Railway from 1893 onwards.

 

[Rescars]

Does anyone know if the conversion required a change to the "green" glass on the signal arms. As paraffin burns with a yellow flame, these glasses were originally blue in order to show a green light. Or were yellow bulbs fitted when the lamps were converted?

 

[Bald Rick]

I still had ‘lamp men‘ (and they were men) in the 2010s to attend to a number of signals and gated level crossings.

 

[John Webb]

Does anyone know if the conversion required a change to the "green" glass on the signal arms. As paraffin burns with a yellow flame, these glasses were originally blue in order to show a green light. Or were yellow bulbs fitted when the lamps were converted?

The bulbs were underrun, partly for long life, partly to make their glow more yellow and closer to the parafin flame colour; this eliminated the need to change the blue filter for a green one. Some modern replacement LED-fitted lamps have, I am told, needed the blue filter to be replaced by a green one.

At St Albans South we have fitted a number of our semaphores with 3.5W warm-white LED bulbs to enable the lights to be seen in daylight and to eliminate scrambling up and down the signals with lit parafin lamps. But we've had to put a yellow filter in front of each bulb to get the correct shade of green rather than a rather bluey-green appearence.

I am also told that two semaphores at St Albans City station remained parafin-powered until the start of the Multiple-Aspect signalling in Dec 1979, the rest being electrically-powered.

 

[Rescars]

IIRC when I visited signal boxes in my youth, there were "lamp in/lamp out" indicators on the instrument shelf to prove that the signal lamps were alight. I assume these were for oil lamps. Were these indicators still used when the lamps were converted? I wonder why working signal lamps were "in" rather than "on". Special railway jargon again?

 

[MadMac]

Not specifically Southern, but I believe NR (possibly Railtrack at the time?) trumpeted the demise of the last paraffin-lit semaphores some 15-20 years ago.

 

[Ken H]

Isnt there a problem converting semaphores to electric lights that they may be perceived by a driver as a colour light? Isnt there a max wattage allowed?

 

[D6130]

Not specifically Southern, but I believe NR (possibly Railtrack at the time?) trumpeted the demise of the last paraffin-lit semaphores some 15-20 years ago.

Yes, they were on the Settle-Carlisle line and were converted to electricity upon the retirement of lamp man Peter Akrigg.

 

[John Webb]

IIRC when I visited signal boxes in my youth, there were "lamp in/lamp out" indicators on the instrument shelf to prove that the signal lamps were alight. I assume these were for oil lamps. Were these indicators still used when the lamps were converted? I wonder why working signal lamps were "in" rather than "on". Special railway jargon again?

Yes, the indicators were used both with parafin and electric signal lights. We have several on our block shelf at St Albans South, although not yet in working order.

As to the 'In' and 'Out' names I am uncertain. Obviously if the flame wasn't burning it was 'out', but it's possible the two terms also relate to the inner burner assembly being 'out' for refilling/replacement and 'in' when it was in place and working. (The 'lampman' would prepare and set up a number of spare burner assemblies in the Lamp Hut where it was easy to work with them, take them out and simply replace the nearly empty burners from the previous week with a refilled and lit new burner assembly, then take the old burner assemblies back to the lamp hut for servicing.)

 

[30907]

As to the 'In' and 'Out' names I am uncertain.

It's easy to confuse On and Off verbally - possible reason?
Though signals are on/off OTOH....

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I've had a quick look through my copy copy of G Pryer's "A Pictorial Record of Southern Signals" (Oxford Publishing Co., 1977). He does not make any specific comment on this, but it would seem that generally when a line was electrified without updating the signals to colour lights, the semaphores were fitted with electrically-powered lamps. So the conversion was a gradual process. Interestingly none of my other books on the history of signalling give any indication, other than there were electrically-lit semaphores on the Liverpool Overhead Railway from 1893 onwards.

Thank you kind sir. Yes I have this book too and had a cursory glance but couldn't see anything in there. I'm currently printing up some photos of the remaining SR semaphores which, obviously have electric lights but I remember as a young man, being up and down signal boxes and remember well, the paraffin lamps. I think I even have one in my possession

 

[Rescars]

It's easy to confuse On and Off verbally - possible reason?
Though signals are on/off OTOH....

Thanks John Webb and 30907. I hadn't thought about swapping the inner burner assemblies. Makes perfect sense.

To go further with the in/on conundrum, a train "in" section would presumably be shown as "train on line" on the block indicator. Complicated language, English!

 

[Gloster]

It was quite normal to have more oil lamps than you had signals: even if they weren’t so issued, they would be acquired. The weekly lamping involved taking out the lamp, adjusting and trimming the wick, cleaning the collar, refilling the reservoir, relighting the lamp and replacing it. Doing all this when it is tipping down, blowing half a gale or freezing cold makes it possible that even the most conscientious lampman will fail to do the job properly. Much better to do all the preparation in the lamproom before carrying the lamp out to the signal: all you have to do is light it and adjust the wick. If you have several lamps in one part of the layout, then a stick with hooks is a simple way to carry them.