Question about Southern (and GatEx) 377s and 387s

[Andy1673]

Hi
How many Southern`s 387s booked on weekdays and how many 377s booked?
Am I right that 387/1, 387/2 and 387/3 are the one pool for diagramming purposes such as 377/1/2/4?
Thanks in advanse.

 

[trainmania100]

387s all work together, there was a ore to Vic consisting of a 387/1 /2 and /3 all in one consist.

No idea re booked, I see one diagram is a 377 one day and 387 the next

 

[NSE]

3771/3772/3774 are all used as a common pool. Unless a /2 series is being put on the West London for its dual voltage capability. 3773 have their own diagrams however both can sub in for each other. I’ve seen 3774’s appear on Seafords vice a /3, I've seen four coach 377’s join a /3 to make a seven coach service instead of two booked /3’s on the London Bridge - East Croydon slow and I’ve seen a /3 tacked on to a mainline formation to bring it up to eleven coaches when a four car has failed to make it a twelve.

As for the 387’s, it was meant to be red /2’s for GatEx only and then using the remainder and (once they arrived) the /1’s and /3’s on other routes, but this has since become far less reliable and 387’s now seem to be used interchangeably.

The diagrams are worked out and booked for 377s and 387’s but enough of them are self contained and so its possible for them to be swapped to keep the service running.

 

[stadler]

Yes the 387/1 387/2 387/3 are indeed all one common pool nowadays. The practice of keeping a separate pool of GX livery units has ended and any 387 can be put on any 387 diagram.

It creates such a big branding mess. You now get frequent Southern services along the BML often formed entirely of GX livery 387 stock and then you also get frequent Gatwick Express services along the BML often formed entirely of SN stock.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes the 387/1 387/2 387/3 are indeed all one common pool nowadays. The practice of keeping a separate pool of GX livery units has ended and any 387 can be put on any 387 diagram.

It creates such a big branding mess. You now get frequent Southern services along the BML often formed entirely of GX livery 387 stock and then you also get frequent Gatwick Express services along the BML often formed entirely of SN stock.

It’s just ridiculous.

 

[NSE]

The only thing that can cause a problem is that not all depots/links sign 387s. That can be one reason certain things are allocated certain ways. Though that’s certainly not stopped a 387 turning up to a driver that doesn’t sign them…

 

[stadler]

The only thing that can cause a problem is that not all depots/links sign 387s. That can be one reason certain things are allocated certain ways. Though that’s certainly not stopped a 387 turning up to a driver that doesn’t sign them…

It seems so odd that some depots still do not sign them. Both the 377 and 387 are very similar and all that is required is a short simple conversion course for more drivers to sign them. Surely from an operational perspective it would make sense to get 100% of Southern drivers to sign them. It would certainly add far more flexibility.

 

[NSE]

It seems so odd that some depots still do not sign them. Both the 377 and 387 are very similar and all that is required is a short simple conversion course for more drivers to sign them. Surely from an operational perspective it would make sense to get 100% of Southern drivers to sign them. It would certainly add far more flexibility.

I agree. And I believe it’s slowly rolling out. Even though the course is a simple conversion, it still requires driver release etc so takes time. I believe it’s all the coastal/mainline depots getting sorted first. Barnham for example was only Link 1 who signed them, and with 387’s now allocated to BTN - SOU (which all Barnham drivers can drive between Barnham and Brighton) they’ve had to pick it up across all links.

 

[Class 466]

Yes the 387/1 387/2 387/3 are indeed all one common pool nowadays. The practice of keeping a separate pool of GX livery units has ended and any 387 can be put on any 387 diagram.

It creates such a big branding mess. You now get frequent Southern services along the BML often formed entirely of GX livery 387 stock and then you also get frequent Gatwick Express services along the BML often formed entirely of SN stock.

I was under the impression that this mess is Temporary until all the 387/1/3s due to transfer arrive - at which point they'll be diagrammed seperately (although GX 387s will still have coastway work)

 

[Minstral25]

I was under the impression that this mess is Temporary until all the 387/1/3s due to transfer arrive - at which point they'll be diagrammed separately (although GX 387s will still have Coastway work)

Isn't there more GX painted trains than needed for the service, so unless they repaint some, they will always be turning up on other services, such as Coastway

 

[NSE]

Isn't there more GX painted trains than needed for the service, so unless they repaint some, they will always be turning up on other services, such as Coastway

Yeh, I think the mess bit referred to is keeping the white /1’s and /3’s off GatEx. Without getting into that conversation, I do think the bare minimum should be to keep all GatEx trains as the red ones. Except extreme ‘it’s snowing and this is literally the only train we can put out’ type scenario.

 

[MatthewE707]

Coincidentally I've been (roughly) working out the Southern/Gatwick Express diagrams over the last couple of days, based on last Tuesday (30th September). I've reversed set swaps where they've happened. It's definitely not perfect, and obviously sub-classes can be different each day, but I've come up with (for that day):

171 - 13/17:

• /2: 0/1
• /7: 3/4
• /8: 10/12

377 - 195/206:

• /1: 50/54
• /2: 14/15
• /3: 25/28
• /4: 69/75
• /6: 24/26
• /7: 8/8
• plus 5 diagrams which either did not run or the unit is not identifiable on RTT

387 - 33/38:

• /1: 5/7
• /2: 23/27
• /3: 3/4
• plus 2 diagrams which either did not run or the unit is not identifiable on RTT

 

[PGAT]

Yeh, I think the mess bit referred to is keeping the white /1’s and /3’s off GatEx. Without getting into that conversation, I do think the bare minimum should be to keep all GatEx trains as the red ones. Except extreme ‘it’s snowing and this is literally the only train we can put out’ type scenario.

I've noticed white 387s on GX are becoming more common this morning I saw a double white formation pass me. However, the dot matrix displays on the front and side of them now say either Southern or Gatwick Express service

 

[DazCM]

I've noticed white 387s on GX are becoming more common this morning I saw a double white formation pass me. However, the dot matrix displays on the front and side of them now say either Southern or Gatwick Express service

There’s a lovely bug with the updated side dot matrix displays which doesn’t scroll the “this train terminates here” message, and the last character doesn’t fit in the space…