Question about advanced tickets, which conductor got it correct?

[Lma07]

Not really a Dispute, but not sure where to put this.

So on Friday, I started my day at Scarborough on transpennie express to york, two hours early, using an advanced ticket and got through the whole journey fine, ticket scanned fine.

Got onto York to Blackpool North service at York, also two hours early, travelling to Poulton. A very empty train because a lot of people missed it, due to the platforms changing and I managed to get on. Also 2 hours early. The first conductor came to scan it and said it would not scan and gave me a 10 minute lecture of advanced tickets and the conductor was was very keen in telling me I should not be on the train as it will not scan. However he did let me stay on as Google wallet did not show the time, unlike Trainpal.

Fast forward to Leeds and they changed crew. The next conductor wanted to check it and scanned it.. perfectly fine.

Who was correct? Or was the first machine not correctly set up properly? It seems odd that it scanned for the second conductor.

 

[WirralLine]

Welcome to the forum

Advance tickets are only valid for the booked train at the booked time. But booking in advance doesn't necessarily mean you have bought an advance ticket.

When booking through an app such as Trainline/Trainpal etc you book to a specific time, but it may well have sold the more flexible Off peak/any time tickets - so despite the itinerary showing a certain time, the ticket itself could be valid on other trains.

Advance tickets would show a specific time (in app or in wallet) and would be shown as "Advance Single". If you can upload your (now used) tickets for us to have a look and advise further that would help!

Be aware the Ts and Cs for advance tickets do limit them to the booked times and stations only (hence why they are cheap - you lose the flexibility) and if you're using them at the wrong time you could be asked to buy a new anytime ticket from staff, issued a penalty fare or reported for a ticket irregularity.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Lma07. Welcome to the forum. Can't really definitively advise on this unless you can say what ticket(s) you actually held, if it was one Advance ticket or a combination of more than one ticket, what the booked train(s) were, and what train times you actually travelled on.

Don't believe that it's possible to travel from Scarborough to Blackpool North on the one Advance ticket. Reckon you must have had a combination of tickets if one leg of the journey was an advance, rather than more flexible off-peak or anytime tickets.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which tickets exactly did you hold, and what was the price? Did you split your tickets? Advance is a ticket type, not just any ticket you can buy in advance of travel.

 

[Lma07]

Hopefully this helps.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2024 ==

*Note I got 10:48 train

 

[Wallsendmag]

I wouldn't post the barcodes as many people on this forum have the ability to scan them. Just cover them with something

 

[Lma07]

I wouldn't post the barcodes as many people on this forum have the ability to scan them. Just cover them with something

Ill reupload it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2024 ==

Here it is, without the barcode.

 

[jfollows]

Hopefully this helps.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2024 ==

*Note I got 10:48 train

You are lucky in a way because your ticket was for the 12:48 train and you could have been prosecuted for not having a valid ticket on the train you chose to take instead.
Advance tickets are only valid on specific trains.
Everyone who scanned your ticket and told you that it was invalid was correct.

Be careful in future simply because prosecution could cost you hundreds of pounds and leave you with a criminal record. It’s potentially that bad!

 

[hexagon789]

Ill reupload it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2024 ==

Here it is, without the barcode.

All Advance Singles, so only valid on the specific train departures listed.

 

[jamiearmley]

I'm not entirely sure what is meant by the ticket would not scan.

What should have happened is that the conductor on all three trains should have had their scanning machine set up for the train they were working and because your ticket was invalid as you were not travelling on your booked service, the machine should have shown the ticket as being invalid. As such, you could have been charged for a new ticket, or given a penalty fare, or potentially reported for prosecution, depending on the job role of the person who is inspecting your ticket.

If the ticket had failed to scan all together, not registering on the machine, the conductor should have asked you to open the ticket within the app where you purchased it and it should have scanned from there.

I think that you have been very lucky - and I would advise against travelling earlier than your booked time in future as there is every chance you will not be as lucky on the next occasion.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think that you have been very lucky - and I would advise against travelling earlier than your booked time in future as there is every chance you will not be as lucky on the next occasion.

Indeed. Two separate advance ticket legs, two different TOCs used, could this have resulted in two separate PFs or prosecutions? Not sure what would have been charged for the advance tickets, an Anytime Day Single from Scarborough to Poulton-le-Fylde (route via Burnley Manchester Road) is just £34.65 with railcard discount.

 

[Benjwri]

Indeed. Two separate advance ticket legs, two different TOCs used, could this have resulted in two separate PFs or prosecutions? Not sure what would have been charged for the advance tickets, an Anytime Day Single from Scarborough to Poulton-le-Fylde (route via Burnley Manchester Road) is just £34.65 with railcard discount.

One would hope the member of stage on the first train would’ve cautioned them to wait for 2 hours and catch the correct train for their second ticket.

 

[Lma07]

Thanks for clearing it up.

The funny thing is, the cost was the same as the 10:48 service as it was for the 12:48.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for clearing it up.

The funny thing is, the cost was the same as the 10:48 service as it was for the 12:48.

It doesn't make any difference to the validity of your tickets, neither of which were valid for travel on the trains you took. Be very careful in future; you can get prosecuted for this, as it is an offence to board a train without a valid ticket at station which have ticketing facilities.

 

[jamiearmley]

Thanks for clearing it up.

The funny thing is, the cost was the same as the 10:48 service as it was for the 12:48.

Yes they do a lot of that. The idea I believe is that different numbers of tickets are released for each service in order to manage demand, even though they are the same price.

Is a disingenious system almost designed to catch out the unwary.

But please trust me when I tell you, that when you tick the box that says that you agree to the terms and conditions - and those terms and conditions clearly state that the ticket is only valid on one specified train - then that is absolute.

Forewarned is forearmed, after all

 

[Haywain]

I'm not entirely sure what is meant by the ticket would not scan.

Rejected as being on the wrong train?

Google wallet did not show the time,

Touch the three dots in the top right of the screen and it switches to the text details of the ticket including itinerary and reservations.

 

[jamiearmley]

Rejected as being on the wrong train?

Possibly yes. That's why I was seeking clarity.

If it's scanned but was rejected as being on the wrong train - then the ticket did scan.

The OP original account was unclear to me as to whether this was a scanned and rejected ticket or a ticket which completely failed to register on the scanning device.

 

[Lma07]

Yes they do a lot of that. The idea I believe is that different numbers of tickets are released for each service in order to manage demand, even though they are the same price.

Is a disingenious system almost designed to catch out the unwary.

But please trust me when I tell you, that when you tick the box that says that you agree to the terms and conditions - and those terms and conditions clearly state that the ticket is only valid on one specified train - then that is absolute.

Forewarned is forearmed, after all

I find it very sneaky from Trainpal, they only seemed to offer me advanced tickets, unless I got for the open return, which was also the same price. But it did not say a specific date and how the time is specifically removed once you add it to google wallets.

There is times where trainpal is not showing the barcode, so the only option is the put it onto google wallet, attached example below.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jun 2024 ==

Possibly yes. That's why I was seeking clarity.

If it's scanned but was rejected as being on the wrong train - then the ticket did scan.

The OP original account was unclear to me as to whether this was a scanned and rejected ticket or a ticket which completely failed to register on the scanning device.

First conductor didn't tell me if it was rejected or not, he just told me it did not scan.

Second conductor on the same train did not have a problem with scanning it.

 

[jamiearmley]

I find it very sneaky from Trainpal, they only seemed to offer me advanced tickets, unless I got for the open return, which was also the same price. But it did not say a specific date and how the time is specifically removed once you add it to google wallets.

There is times where trainpal is not showing the barcode, so the only option is the put it onto google wallet, attached example below.

I agree.

Part of my job role is checking and inspecting tickets.

Of the thousands of tickets I may check every week, the ones that passengers encounter the most technical difficulty with are on the train pal app, or one of its other iterations for example, it is also sometimes labelled trainpaller. Other common offenders are trip.com and omio.

With train pal, the difficulties mostly encountered are with the rail card and it's common for passengers to say that when they renew the rail card, they won't be using the train pal app.
Other common problems arise when passengers transfer tickets to wallets. Whilst the wallet is a handy method that I use myself, difficulties occur often enough for it to have registered with myself as a recurring issue.

 

[yorkie]

In future, if you want flexible fares, consider using our site, and click on the 'flexible' button.

Or use Northern's site and choose 'open return'.

In both cases there wouldn't be a booking fee, unlike Trainpal.

 

[Lma07]

Rejected as being on the wrong train?

Touch the three dots in the top right of the screen and it switches to the text details of the ticket including itinerary and reservations.

I clicked the three dots and this is what came up

 

[anothertyke]

Yes they do a lot of that. The idea I believe is that different numbers of tickets are released for each service in order to manage demand, even though they are the same price.

Is a disingenious system almost designed to catch out the unwary.

But please trust me when I tell you, that when you tick the box that says that you agree to the terms and conditions - and those terms and conditions clearly state that the ticket is only valid on one specified train - then that is absolute.

Forewarned is forearmed, after all

This is why it seems such a lottery. In these circumstances, the OP could have been given a talking to, could have been sold a standard single ( this happened to my daughter in similar circumstances) or could have been given a penalty fare. What determines which is chosen and how is consistency assured?

Even the Northern website seems to show specific train advances first and to get a flex ticket you need to scroll down to other options. It does kind of assume you know what you are doing (PhD in ticketing) as a prerequisite for meeting the terms and conditions.

 

[30907]

I clicked the three dots and this is what came up

When you actually bought the ticket, did the site/app tell you that your tickets were only valid on those specific trains? If not, you should complain to them.

This is why it seems such a lottery. In these circumstances, the OP could have been given a talking to, could have been sold a standard single ( this happened to my daughter in similar circumstances) or could have been given a penalty fare. What determines which is chosen and how is consistency assured?

AIUI, PFs cannot be issued by all onboard staff (and do not apply on all routes anyway). Consistency would require no-ohe to show discretion - the OP was lucky!

Even the Northern website seems to show specific train advances first and to get a flex ticket you need to scroll down to other options. It does kind of assume you know what you are doing (PhD in ticketing) as a prerequisite for meeting the terms and conditions.

That is very poor - the website doesn't tell you (other than "cheapest") until you are about to pay. Clearly a derivative of Trainline.
Their app gives you the choice immediately for any train you choose.

 

[Adam Williams]

he did let me stay on as Google wallet did not show the time

The screenshots you've uploaded here show a Google Wallet implementation that does not comply with the specification set by Rail Delivery Group for the format of ticket you purchased. This is a rather fundamental requirement, and it's quite poor to see it's been missed here in a TPR's implementation that has been live for so long.