Query Regarding Train Wifi

[Colin 2905]

I've sampled the WiFi on Virgin and East Coast in the past. Every time it's been comprehensively unusable; either it remains loading indefinitely, or it spits out an error page.

3G coverage isn't continuous but when I tether my phone, it either works, or it tells me the connection is down.

From memory, we had a similar experience with Grand Central (KGX to HPL and return) when we visited the UK in July 2011, and ended up using 3's coverage (where available) instead.

We'll be back over there in a couple of months, so I'll see if it's any better this time.

 

[maniacmartin]

I find East Coast's wifi works better than my rubbish phone's 3G, and is quite usable

 

[RyanB]

I've sampled the WiFi on Virgin and East Coast in the past. Every time it's been comprehensively unusable; either it remains loading indefinitely, or it spits out an error page.

3G coverage isn't continuous but when I tether my phone, it either works, or it tells me the connection is down.

I went down to London in October from Edinburgh and was in first class, and brought my computer along with me (mostly to watch films etc.) but the wifi was good, streaming was disabled for obvious reasons, and in parts the signal dipped a bit (but EC highlighted areas where WiFi signal was patchy) but overall it worked fine.

 

[380001]

And FSR are doing likewise on the entire 170 fleat after a successfull trial on 4 units. This will be free and funded by Scottish Government. It is notably absent from the sleapers however

Surprisingly FSR's wifi is reliable and fast. A shame this doesn't extend to the trains themselves!

 

[Goatboy]

Do many people actually bother taking TOCs up on the 5 quid an hour package? I used it in First Class on XC and a Virgin Voyager and it was nice for free but flakey enough that I would be frustrated to have paid money for it.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I'd imagine most of those who do can claim it back as a business expense.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, I think the railway companies may have to give way on this one. If 'The man on the Clapham Omnibus' can indulge in free wifi, the railway may come to be regarded as rather old hat if its InterCity passengers can't.

 

[jopsuk]

nevermind Intercity passengers, it is going to quickly become regarded as odd that commuter stock isn't fitted.

 

[Dave1987]

nevermind Intercity passengers, it is going to quickly become regarded as odd that commuter stock isn't fitted.

I think this has already happened I don't understand why wifi is such a critical luxury that people demand now but hey ho. GA are putting wifi in at bigger stations now.

 

[brompton rail]

Northern don't have wifi in any of their trains!

 

[rebmcr]

Northern don't have wifi in any of their trains!

They barely manage having the trains in the first place!

 

[Colin 2905]

From memory, we had a similar experience with Grand Central (KGX to HPL and return) when we visited the UK in July 2011, and ended up using 3's coverage (where available) instead.

We'll be back over there in a couple of months, so I'll see if it's any better this time.

We travelled on Grand Central from York to Hartlepool last Monday. The only thing that I could get from GC's WiFi was an IP address; no connectivity beyond that.

We'll be travelling on GC again next Wednesday; I'll see if it's any different then.

 

[starrymarkb]

Well, I think the railway companies may have to give way on this one. If 'The man on the Clapham Omnibus' can indulge in free wifi, the railway may come to be regarded as rather old hat if its InterCity passengers can't.

Indeed, even Megabus now offer free WiFi on their coaches (VanHools, Interdecks and new Panther Deliveries are fitted)

First are fitting it to ALL new vehicles as standard now...

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The price, patchy nature of the connection and the speed once 300 passengers log on you may as well buy a dongle on 3 pay as you go.

 

[Lrd]

First are fitting it to ALL new vehicles as standard now...

They have already added Wifi to their entire fleet (new and old) down here in Southampton, as have Bluestar.

 

[bb21]

We travelled on Grand Central from York to Hartlepool last Monday. The only thing that I could get from GC's WiFi was an IP address; no connectivity beyond that.

We'll be travelling on GC again next Wednesday; I'll see if it's any different then.

IMO WiFi on both GC and HT's 180s are woefully inadequate. The only one working I have found recently is 180110. Same with GC's HSTs.

Then again they don't have franchise commitments to provide good quality WiFi.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed, even Megabus now offer free WiFi on their coaches (VanHools, Interdecks and new Panther Deliveries are fitted)

First are fitting it to ALL new vehicles as standard now...

Indeed. It has to be asked, why are they neglecting their train fleet. Do they see it as domething they don't have to bother with as most of their clientelle is guaranteed!

 

[TEW]

IMO WiFi on both GC and HT's 180s are woefully inadequate. The only one working I have found recently is 180110. Same with GC's HSTs.

Then again they don't have franchise commitments to provide good quality WiFi.

The WiFi on FGWs 180s was pretty good when I used it though. I wonder if it uses the same equipment or not. Well advertised on the FGW 180s that free WiFi is available as well.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The price, patchy nature of the connection and the speed once 300 passengers log on you may as well buy a dongle on 3 pay as you go.

This is a thing which is only going to improve though. 4G LTE is being rolled out over the country at the moment and will become the standard mobile internet connection within a few years, not only is it faster than current 3G networks it also travels further from cellular masts (meaning coverage will be wider) and penetrates buildings and structures better, meaning fewer black spots.

Wireless AC will become the new WiFi standard over the next year or so too, replacing the current Wireless N which you probably have in your house. Again, it will mean faster and more stable connections.

Considering mobile internet really is still in it's infancy, the rate of progress the industry is making is outstanding. While it won't help you out tomorrow morning, it's pretty obvious that WiFi is going to be everywhere and it's going to be awesome within five years.

 

[jon0844]

4G over 800MHz will definitely be good for covering rural areas (including railway lines). Of course, while it might be great for allowing long range coverage - it may impact on capacity and hit data speeds.

Of course, EE has effectively ruled that out as a problem by imposing ridiculously low data limits. I'm paying £26.99 per month for 8GB on mobile broadband, and hope that come the summer when the other networks launch we'll see a bit of a price war to bring prices down, or data limits up.

That said, when I am not being careful about usage, BOY is it quick!!

 

[HSTEd]

Who has wireless N in there house.....

Most wireless equipment is still b or g.

(N is mad because it uses phased arrays to point the beam at the device)

 

[Yew]

4G over 800MHz will definitely be good for covering rural areas (including railway lines). Of course, while it might be great for allowing long range coverage - it may impact on capacity and hit data speeds.

Of course, EE has effectively ruled that out as a problem by imposing ridiculously low data limits. I'm paying £26.99 per month for 8GB on mobile broadband, and hope that come the summer when the other networks launch we'll see a bit of a price war to bring prices down, or data limits up.

That said, when I am not being careful about usage, BOY is it quick!!

Go back 5 years or so however, and an 8GB limit was what you saw on some broadband connections. However I too am hopeful about what competition can bring.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Who has wireless N in there house....

Er, I do.

 

[ValleyLines142]

It is becoming such an expected feature that it just seems crazy that FGW haven't fitted it in their HSTs, given the other HST and hauled mark 3 operators have long had it.

I must agree with this. I travel daily on the Cardiff to London route and it's full of businessmen and laptops! I'm very, very surprised they haven't installed Wifi on board HSTs, but yet they have on the 180s.

 

[starrymarkb]

Who has wireless N in there house.....

Most wireless equipment is still b or g.

(N is mad because it uses phased arrays to point the beam at the device)

Most ISP issued Routers are now Wireless N - BT Home Hubs certainly are. I'm still on G but am changing ISP soon so will get a new router

 

[HSTEd]

Most ISP issued Routers are now Wireless N - BT Home Hubs certainly are. I'm still on G but am changing ISP soon so will get a new router

Ah....

I make it my business to use a hardline for heavy duty work, I onyl wireless for lightweight stuff on my netbook.

Cat 5E still reigns supreme in terms of connection quality, reliability and latency IMHO.

 

[starrymarkb]

Ah....

I make it my business to use a hardline for heavy duty work, I onyl wireless for lightweight stuff on my netbook.

Cat 5E still reigns supreme in terms of connection quality, reliability and latency IMHO.

I'm mostly wired in the living room (PC, TV, Streamer, Blu-Ray, Xbox), with wireless elsewhere in the flat.

I don't know why most of the consumer wireless N kit still has 100mb Ethernet though!

 

[jon0844]

Who has wireless N in there house.....

Most wireless equipment is still b or g.

(N is mad because it uses phased arrays to point the beam at the device)

Anyone who has purchased a wireless router in the last five years probably has 802.11n equipment - and just about every device with Wi-Fi will be 802.11n. Anything but the basic models will also have gigabit Ethernet too. One of my routers also supports the connection of a USB dongle, so I can use 3G (or 4G) as a fallback.

Now you'll probably find routers supporting 802.11n at 5GHz, and many devices working at both 2.4 and 5GHz. 5GHz might not carry as far (especially through walls) but it will likely have little interference from neighbours.

802.11ac will take a while to take off, as you might buy a router but few devices support it. The new HTC One and Samsung GS4 support it though.

 

[hacman]

It will be a good while before we see 802.11ac deployed in a rail environment.

At present most operators are still using 802.11g, and 802.11n is now starting to be deployed.

802.11ac is not yet fully ratified, and as such providers and TOCs will be reluctant to touch it. Even once ratification is completed, it usually takes the AP manufacturers a little while to start offering devices that comply with the final standard. The same was seen with 802.11n, with alot of manufacturers offerings "PRE-n" products.

Not forgetting that equipment used aboard trains then has to be certified as suitable, which takes further time. It's not just a case of going down to PCWorld and getting any old AP.

With regards to LTE, this is something that will deliver an improvement in the not too distant future. It's just a case of coverage reaching the point whereby it justifies the cost of upgrading equipment.

Jon

 

[jon0844]

802.11n on a train will suffice for some time anyway.

The only possible issue is when a lot of people bring along their own portable hotspots (or set their smartphone to share the Internet, effectively becoming a router too), but I doubt we'll see the same problems on a train carriage as is now common at exhibitions and other events, where you might find in excess of 100 Wi-Fi services in a confined area, with the result that Wi-Fi can effectively be wiped out as they were never designed to co-exist with that many services operating on just 13 channels.

Whether .ac can cope better with so many services remains to be seen.