Query on London Paddington ticket

[tornado]

hi,

looking at a journey from oxford to paddington and back.

according to brfares.com you cannot travel on any train leaving paddington between ~4-7pm with an off peak day return ticket. however according to nationalrail website you can travel on the 4.57pm train?

is this correct?

 

[yorkie]

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www.brfares.com

Not valid on trains timed to depart London Terminals after 04:29 and before 09:20 or on the following departures from London Paddington (times shown in brackets are from Reading station):

• 16:02 (16:27) to Bristol Temple Meads
• 16:04 (16:29) to Penzance
• 16:08 (16:37) to Bedwyn
• 16:15 to Swansea
• 16:18 (16:42) to Cardiff Central
• 16:20 (16:48) to Oxford
• 16:30 to Cheltenham Spa
• 16:32 (16:57) to Taunton
• 16:38 (17:03) to Exeter St Davids
• 16:43 (17:11) to Didcot Parkway
• 16:48 (17:13) to Swansea
• 16:58 to Great Malvern
• 17:00 to Bristol Temple Meads
• 17:02 (17:27) to Bristol Temple Meads
• 17:04 (17:29) to Penzance
• 17:15 to Swansea
• 17:17 (17:42) to Cardiff Central
• 17:28 to Cheltenham Spa
• 17:30 (1754) to Taunton
• 17:28 to Cheltenham Spa
• 17:34 (17:59) to Worcester Foregate Street
• 17:37 (18:04) to Paignton
• 17:42 (18:10) to Didcot Parkway
• 17:47 (18:12) to Swansea
• 17:51 (18:32) to Didcot Parkway
• 17:58 to Worcester Foregate Street
• 18:00 to Bristol Temple Meads
• 18:02 (18:27) to Bristol Temple Meads
• 18:04 (18:29) to Penzance
• 18:07 (18:38) to Frome
• 18:16 to Carmarthen
• 18:18 (18:42) to Cardiff Central
• 18:20 (18:57) to Didcot Parkway
• 18:28 to Banbury
• 18:30 to Cheltenham Spa
• 18:34 (18:59) to Weston Super Mare
• 18:37 (19:05) to Plymouth
• 18:42 (19:10) to Didcot Parkway
• 18:47 (19:12) to Swansea
• 18:58 to Hereford
• 19:00 to Bristol Temple Meads
• 19:02 (19:27) to Bristol Temple Meads
• 19:04 (19:30) to Plymouth
• 19:02 (19:27) to Bristol Temple Meads
• 19:15 to Weston Super Mare
• 19:18 (19:42) to Swansea

1657 is valid

 

[tornado]

yes. as I said in my post there is a disagreement between brfares and nationalrail.co.uk.

a search on nationalrail greys out all return options 4-7pm except for the 4.57pm.

 

[PG]

I'd say yes it is correct.

I notice @yorkie had beaten me to it!

I'd guess that at some time in the past the 1657 Great Malvern departure left at 1658 which is listed as not being valid and that that is why it is (currently) valid on the 1657.

Perhaps wise to take a screenshot or printed proof of the text of the P7 restriction code quoted in post #2.

 

[tornado]

which is correct? it is allowed to travel on the 1657 or not?

would seem a bit strange that they re-timed a train by 1 minute and suddenly it becomes off peak...

 

[yorkie]

which is correct? it is allowed to travel on the 1657 or not?

it is

buy from a retailer you trust to back you up in the event of any dispute

 

[father_jack]

It's 1657 for the whole timetable period so it's been vaild since 06/07/2020 and "may be" vaild until 11/12/2020 but there are one or two pricing managers tuned in here so a rectification may take place now that you've spotted it !!! Actually it would be better conflict-wise for both passenger and staff to have it rectified.

 

[yorkie]

I know a forum member who bought a ticket from Trainsplit under similar circumstances and they provided assistance

GWR refused to pay out initially but after Trainsplit/Raileasy wrote to GWR, they eventually relented and issued a refund and complimentary travel pass.

I wouldn't do it without an itinerary. If I was charged an excess fare, I would first complain to GWR, then escalate to the Rail Ombudsman and then seek help from the retailer.

And yes pricing managers do read this forum; no doubt the data will change shortly and the cost of this journey will go up

 

[father_jack]

Snipped.............

the cost of this journey will go up

It's an error. Yes fill your boots while the error exists, but in fairness the cost hasn't really gone up.

Off topic there are now advances appearing leaving Paddington in the peak that are 50% of the SDS fares so the industry isn't completely out to beat up the passenger.

 

[tornado]

Well the error ends in December anyway because the 4.57 goes back to 4.58pm.

Would the ticket gates at Oxford be currently programmed to allow an off-peak ticket through on this train? It seems a lot of hassle if you have to get into an argument with GWR staff just to take this journey!

 

[didcotdean]

These arise fairly often from timetable changes and alterations, especially ones not done at the usual major times of the year, and can persist for some time before the restriction times are readjusted. Not had a query when taking one of these with a seat reservation booked via GWR but wouldn't take one without at least an itinerary to back it up.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Would the ticket gates at Oxford be currently programmed to allow an off-peak ticket through on this train? It seems a lot of hassle if you have to get into an argument with GWR staff just to take this journey!

I don't think restrictions apply to the stoppers, not least because most are operated as far as Reading by TfL. So ticket gates at Oxford and elsewhere should allow passengers out.

 

[FenMan]

Would the ticket gates at Oxford be currently programmed to allow an off-peak ticket through on this train? It seems a lot of hassle if you have to get into an argument with GWR staff just to take this journey!

I would be very surprised if they weren't as off peak tickets are valid on Chiltern's evening peak services services from Marylebone.

 

[RJ]

which is correct? it is allowed to travel on the 1657 or not?

would seem a bit strange that they re-timed a train by 1 minute and suddenly it becomes off peak...

Service retimings have been known to unintentionally affect the validity shown in journey planners. It works both ways.

There have been times in the past customers have complained that they couldn't buy their ticket online for their usual off peak train and staff have complained the computer wouldn't allow it. I've carried out investigations by digging into the fares database and found out that the retiming of a station call has fallen foul of whatever time restriction parameters the TOC has set up in the system.

Usually bundling up the information and forwarding it to the relevant retail management team gets it sorted quick 'o' clock. This is what members of this forum are doing in this thread - only with the opposite intention of getting the train restricted again! I wouldn't be doing that myself, but each to their own!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2020 ==

It's 1657 for the whole timetable period so it's been vaild since 06/07/2020 and "may be" vaild until 11/12/2020 but there are one or two pricing managers tuned in here so a rectification may take place now that you've spotted it !!! Actually it would be better conflict-wise for both passenger and staff to have it rectified.

I think there are more than one or two! But it's pretty common for people to take in interest in technical commentary over things they have an influence over.

 

[infobleep]

Service retimings have been known to unintentionally affect the validity shown in journey planners. It works both ways.

There have been times in the past customers have complained that they couldn't buy their ticket online for their usual off peak train and staff have complained the computer wouldn't allow it. I've carried out investigations by digging into the fares database and found out that the retiming of a station call has fallen foul of whatever time restriction parameters the TOC has set up in the system.

Usually bundling up the information and forwarding it to the relevant retail management team gets it sorted quick 'o' clock. This is what members of this forum are doing in this thread - only with the opposite intention of getting the train restricted again! I wouldn't be doing that myself, but each to their own!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2020 ==



I think there are more than one or two! But it's pretty common for people to take in interest in technical commentary over things they have an influence over.

I get the impression people posting stuff on here are not always aware of why something is occurring and the ramifications of posting on here about it. They will at least be aware for the future.

It certainly pays to be carefull about what you post.

If you know a certain station after you start your journey offers cheaper fares to a station beyond where you wish to end up, best keep quiet. [an example of a split ticket and finishing short]

Or another station saves you 20p but offers greater route validly, again keep quiet. [an example of starting short with greater choice of routes].

 

[Haywain]

It’s worth hearing in mind that interested parties do read and participate in the forum but it’s not one way traffic. Perhaps you have to accept the occasional loss to get some gains.

 

[infobleep]

It’s worth hearing in mind that interested parties do read and participate in the forum but it’s not one way traffic. Perhaps you have to accept the occasional loss to get some gains.

I can't disagree with that. I certainly find knowledgeable posts from people working in the industry interesting.

I'm not sure if I'd post myself as I might be concerned my employer might not be happy but that's just me. I'm glad they do post though.

 

[island]

If you know a certain station after you start your journey offers cheaper fares to a station beyond where you wish to end up, best keep quiet. [an example of a split ticket and finishing short]

Indeed. I recall posts here about off peak day returns from places in Oxfordshire having afternoon peak restrictions to come back when booked to Paddington but not to c2c destinations such as Limehouse LTS. That loophole mysteriously disappeared a couple of NFMs ago.

 

[tornado]

The possible error I spotted ends in a few weeks anyway with the December timetable change.

Also if people want to hide this thread from the pricing managers, it's probably best to not keep commenting on it!

 

[Haywain]

Also if people want to hide this thread from the pricing managers, it's probably best to not keep commenting on it!

Given that the change that removes the 'loophole' has already been made it really doesn't matter. And that change won't have been made by a pricing manager.

 

[bkhtele]

Broadly as I understand it, the evening off peak tickets from Paddington are valid on stoppers e.g TFL but not specified semi fasts. Changing trains at Reading or Didcot gives more options. However fasts from Reading have restrictions as outlined in Yorkie's post.

 

[FenMan]

Broadly as I understand it, the evening off peak tickets from Paddington are valid on stoppers e.g TFL but not specified semi fasts. Changing trains at Reading or Didcot gives more options. However fasts from Reading have restrictions as outlined in Yorkie's post.

There are many off peak tickets available where return journeys can be made using the fast services out of Paddington during the evening peak. This is not anomalous or a secret.

 

[Llanigraham]

It always amazes me what is and isn't allowed.

Depending on times of meetings in London I sometimes travel from Ludlow, via Newport. Coming home my off peak ticket can't be used on the direct South Wales train but it can be used on the Hereford (via Malvern). And then at Hereford I get on the same train I would have caught in Newport if I had been on the direct.

 

[island]

One of the purposes of peak fares is to get people to use less busy services, which it seems to be doing here.

 

[SickyNicky]

Coming home my off peak ticket can't be used on the direct South Wales train but it can be used on the Hereford (via Malvern). And then at Hereford I get on the same train I would have caught in Newport if I had been on the direct.

It was always thus. The Cotswold line services are much cheaper than the Bristol ones. To allow use of the Ludlow ticket via Newport would undercut prices to Bristol and South Wales massively.

There are many off peak tickets available where return journeys can be made using the fast services out of Paddington during the evening peak. This is not anomalous or a secret.

It's a secret from many of the gateline staff at Paddington. Often the response is simply "off-peak not valid" and no amount of showing restrictions will budge them. Plenty of forum members have seen this and have had to get it corrected by GWR after having paid out large sums of extra money, or had to wait a long time for off-peak to be "valid". That includes myself.

 

[4COR]

There are many off peak tickets available where return journeys can be made using the fast services out of Paddington during the evening peak. This is not anomalous or a secret.

Return portions from many stations up the ECML/Cambridge Line are valid in this way (Oxford<->Cambridge is an example - where the fares are set by Thameslink/GN) despite what Paddington gateline will often try and tell you - take itineraries/seat reservations, show the ticket code/restrictions (this did work for my wife once...), be prepared to buy new tickets and complain for refunds...