Quarantine

[Baxenden Bank]

"Key workers", including contractors where the skills aren't on the island, can be partly exempted from the quarantine to allow them to go and do the work they are coming here to do. So they go to the hotel, go to work (socially distanced), go to the hotel then go home.

Or, in this case, go to Tesco then go to the Jurby Hilton.

I think they thought the rules were a joke, as they seem to be in parts of England.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2020 ==

Just read the article on the BBC News site. Coronavirus: Visiting workers who broke island virus laws jailed

The men attracted the attention of other customers because they WERE wearing facemasks. Should have stocked up in Liverpool before boarding the ferry!

Five welders visiting the Isle of Man from England for work have been jailed after breaking the island's coronavirus quarantine rules.

The men, from Doncaster in South Yorkshire, were permitted to visit the island to work on the Manx Electric Railway.

Under quarantine rules, they were permitted to travel between their hotel accommodation and workplace only.

But the group were reported to police for buying alcohol from a supermarket.

Luke Fletcher, 22, Christopher Lafayette, 62, Michael Smith, 43, Jack Smith, 18, and Robbie Rhodes, 18, were each jailed for 14 days.

They all admitted going into Tesco in Douglas after arriving via ferry on Tuesday.

The group had been given exemption certificates to visit the island for work purposes between 29 September and 1 October.

The island's border remains closed to non-residents unless they have been given special permission.

'Busy store'

After their arrival, the welders travelled by van to the supermarket before buying items including alcohol and sausage rolls, Douglas Courthouse heard.

When another customer asked one of the men why they were wearing masks, suspicions were aroused when he replied they had "just got off the boat", the court heard.

There is currently no social distancing on the Isle of Man and mask wearing is not compulsory in public spaces.

Staff later reported the group to police, and they were arrested at their hotel.

When questioned, one admitted the group had agreed to the shopping trip during the ferry crossing.

The men's defence advocates told the court their exemption certificates had been left on the dashboard of their vehicles and they had not read them properly.

The prosecution said a supervisor who had travelled over with the group had advised them not to enter the shop.

Sentencing them, magistrates chairman Belinda Pilling said the men made a "planned trip" to the store and had simply "closed their eyes" to the island's rules.

Other customers in the "busy" store "would have expected it to be free from infection", she said.

However, that story is exceeded in the 'oh I didn't think competition' by the following one:

Coronavirus: Man who visited GP's surgery while self-isolating jailed

A man who breached Manx Covid-19 rules by visiting a doctor's surgery and then refusing to leave has been jailed.

Douglas Courthouse was told Justin Hughes, of Parsonage Road, Ramsey, went to a surgery after returning from Thailand, but became "irate" when he was told he should be self-isolating.

Hughes, 48, only left the premises when police were called, the court heard.

Sentencing him to four weeks in prison, magistrates said a surgery was the "worst place" he could have visited.

Under Manx rules, all travellers returning to the island must self-isolate at home for a mandatory 14 days, though residents can take a Covid-19 test to reduce that time.

'Didn't think it through'
The court heard Hughes, who had been living in Thailand for a year before his return on Monday, had initially travelled by bus to a friend's home in Ramsey.

The following morning, he went to a surgery and asked for an appointment, telling the receptionist he had recently returned from abroad.

The hearing was told when she said he should be self-isolating, he became "irate".

His refusal to leave meant other patients had to move out of a waiting area and when a doctor again asked him to go home, he refused and sat on a chair.

He only left after police were called and was arrested shortly after on Bowring Road, later admitting to officers he had also visited a shop to buy food as there was "nothing in" at his address.

Representing himself, Hughes said he "didn't think it through" and did not "fully understand" the seriousness of his actions at the time.

He said he had tested negative for Covid-19 three times before returning, and had been wearing a mask when outside.

Sentencing him, magistrates said a surgery was the "worst place" he could have gone to, as there may have been patients "in a weakened condition who were more susceptible" to the virus.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2020 ==

She was probably silly to go in the first place awaiting a result but in all seriousness what option did she have. Miles away from home, what was she supposed to do? Asking as what is the legally correct thing to do in this position? I don't know.

She had symptons, however mild, so she should have self-isolated. End of.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The men attracted the attention of other customers because they WERE wearing facemasks. Should have stocked up in Liverpool before boarding the ferry!

They were told- repeatedly- before they came that they go straight to their hotel and can only come out for work. I guess they thought that it's the same as in England, a £100 fine should anybody care, which they probably won't.

And yes, face masks are as rare as hen's teeth here. Walking round town, you can count the numbers of people out wearing them on the fingers of one hand.

Face masks + getting into a UK-reg van is going to arouse a lot of suspicion.

The bloody idiots went to McDonald's too!

 

[Bantamzen]

Just read the article on the BBC News site. Coronavirus: Visiting workers who broke island virus laws jailed

The men attracted the attention of other customers because they WERE wearing facemasks. Should have stocked up in Liverpool before boarding the ferry!




However, that story is exceeded in the 'oh I didn't think competition' by the following one:

Coronavirus: Man who visited GP's surgery while self-isolating jailed

So they were arrested for breaking quarantine (fair enough under IoM law), but were wearing masks to protect others....?

<Added to the growing body of evidence that nobody can agree on whether or not masks actually work in public situations>

 

[Tetchytyke]

So they were arrested for breaking quarantine (fair enough under IoM law), but were wearing masks to protect others....?

<Added to the growing body of evidence that nobody can agree on whether or not masks actually work in public situations>

Our protection is the border being tightly restricted. The consequence of having a restricted border is that we don't have any community cases of Covid. In turn that means that face masks are not needed and so very few people here wear them.

Face masks are mandatory on the ferry and are mandatory if you have to leave self-isolation for whatever reason, e.g. travelling to your self-isolation address or in an emergency.

So it doesn't raise, or answer, questions about whether masks are necessary.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

They were told- repeatedly- before they came that they go straight to their hotel and can only come out for work. I guess they thought that it's the same as in England, a £100 fine should anybody care, which they probably won't.

And yes, face masks are as rare as hen's teeth here.

Face masks + getting into a UK-reg van is going to arouse a lot of suspicion.

I assumed they had been caught by extravagent surveilance techniques using ferry manifests, ANPR etc, rather than somebody in the shop being suspicious and the shop staff reporting them. I noted that their supervisor told them not to do it, but they went ahead anyway. As you say, in England, you can effectively ignore all of the restrictions with impunity (as a citzen, perhaps not as a business owner). Explains why cases are running rampant. I think we are on a starter for £200 now though, but I can't be certain as it may have changed again whilst brewing my tea!

Can we possibly borrow your governement to run our country for a while?

 

[bramling]

It's unbelievably dumb when you factor in the supposed rates in the UK, which will no doubt be higher than half the places they've moved into the list of late

It’s a bit like the toilet rolls reaction - doing *something* to give the illusion of being in control of a situation which is essentially beyond our control.

We’ve had it at my work - offices declaring themselves “quarantined” to keep those germ-laden outsiders out. Presumably the occupants of those offices never do anything or see anyone outside of work?!

If we were going to do a New Zealand style elimination then fine, though it’s questionable whether that approach would have been viable here, but as usual we have a fudged halfway house which is more about being seen to be doing something.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

So they were arrested for breaking quarantine (fair enough under IoM law), but were wearing masks to protect others....?

<Added to the growing body of evidence that nobody can agree on whether or not masks actually work in public situations>

No need for masks in the IofM as there are no cases to speak of - two active cases at the present time.

I think even scientists called Karen will agree that masks have zero benefit where there is no virus present.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I assumed they had been caught by extravagent surveilance techniques using ferry manifests, ANPR etc, rather than somebody in the shop being suspicious and the shop staff reporting them.

There are no social distancing rules on the Isle of Man at all. None. No masks, no sitting 2m apart, no bans on singing in the pub, no rule of six.

Within our little bubble everything is normal. We had a food festival a couple of weeks ago with 16,000 visitors in two days, live bands, food tasting, the lot. It was great fun. I went out for a few beers with everyone from work last night, all sitting at one table, it was great.

Our government put the border restrictions in as our defence, so when you get five hairy-arsed welders, straight off the boat, marching round Tesco it is dangerous. Mask or no mask.

And that's why the sentences that are handed out mean business. Of course it's about making an example of them. But rightly so. Because we don't have the social distancing can you imagine the carnage one person with Covid could cause tramping round Tesco and McDonald's.

 

[trainophile]

Do we know whether the train used by that Scottish MP was identified, and deep cleaned? Presumably Avanti as she travelled London-Glasgow. Don't suppose there's any sort of track and trace operation on the railways?

 

[Bantamzen]

Our protection is the border being tightly restricted. The consequence of having a restricted border is that we don't have any community cases of Covid. In turn that means that face masks are not needed and so very few people here wear them.

Face masks are mandatory on the ferry and are mandatory if you have to leave self-isolation for whatever reason, e.g. travelling to your self-isolation address or in an emergency.

So it doesn't raise, or answer, questions about whether masks are necessary.

But it does raise the question, work with me on this for a moment.

So the IoM, or indeed any country, mandates that anyone arriving from another country with higher rates of covid must isolate for 14 days on arrival. However some countries do not mandate mask wearing as their rates are low. So if masks did work to protect others, then why must people isolate if they wear them on arrival at said countries? Surely if masks work, this should be enough to remove the need for quarantines in the first place. But as we know they don't, so clearly governments are not so sure about them, even though in many countries they are mandatory in many places.

No need for masks in the IofM as there are no cases to speak of - two active cases at the present time.

I think even scientists called Karen will agree that masks have zero benefit where there is no virus present.

No cases that they know of. But of course they do have a teeny tiny problem with the strategy, as New Zealand have too. The virus is here to stay, and so at some point it will find it's way there, unless of course these islands choose to permanently isolate....

 

[Tetchytyke]

So the IoM, or indeed any country, mandates that anyone arriving from another country with higher rates of covid must isolate for 14 days on arrival.

All countries have higher rates of Covid than the IOM and, regardless of where you've come from, you have to pass through London, Manchester or Liverpool to get here.

There are no quarantines for arrivals from Guernsey.

 

[Bantamzen]

All countries have higher rates of Covid than the IOM and, regardless of where you've come from, you have to pass through London, Manchester or Liverpool to get here.

There are no quarantines for arrivals from Guernsey.

And its at this point I have some bad news for you. The virus is sitting in waiting for you guys.

 

[Tetchytyke]

No cases that they know of. But of course they do have a teeny tiny problem with the strategy, as New Zealand have too. The virus is here to stay, and so at some point it will find it's way there, unless of course these islands choose to permanently isolate

Covid, despite the masks, has come here, 6 people have brought it back and tested positive, no doubt others just isolated as the test costs fifty quid.

That's why we have the 14 day quarantine, to make sure it doesn't come into the community. So far, touch wood, it hasn't.

We have proper tracing systems too- every single person coming in, including residents, has to pre-register with the government and tell the government *exactly* which flight/ferry they were on and where they will be isolating. Non-residents can come in, but only if we need them to or for compassionate reasons.

It can't go on forever but it doesn't have to. In the meantime we have freedom that pretty much nobody else in the world has and, if we need to leave, there are proper processes in place to allow a safe return.

And, let's face it, 14 days quarantine (reduced to 7 days full quarantine and 7 days part quarantine with a negative test on day 7) is no different to huge swathes of the UK who get all the pain of self-isolation without the positives of no social distancing.

I know it's galling to the "Covid is no big deal" brigade that our government's actions are working. But they are. I'm quite happy to sit in the Winchester with a pint until it all blows over!

 

[Bantamzen]

Covid, despite the masks, has come here, 6 people have brought it back and tested positive, no doubt others just isolated.

That's why we have the 14 day quarantine, to make sure it doesn't come into the community. So far, touch wood, it hasn't.

We have proper tracing systems too- every single person coming in, including residents, has to pre-register with the government and tell the government *exactly* which flight/ferry they were on and where they will be isolating. Non-residents can come in, but only if we need them to or for compassionate reasons.

It can't go on forever but it doesn't have to. In the meantime we have freedom that pretty much nobody else in the world has and, if we need to leave, there are proper processes in place to allow a safe return.

I'm sure the IoM is a lovely place, but I wouldn't call being stuck to it and perhaps Guernsey as being freedom.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm sure the IoM is a lovely place, but I wouldn't call being stuck to it and perhaps Guernsey as being freedom.

I'm not stuck, I can leave and I can return at any time.

I have to quarantine for 14 days when I get back, but how is that any different to the Brits who went on holiday to Spain or Greece or Turkey?

At least our government has a consistent and clear message and isn't engaging in a high-stakes game of Quarantine Bingo. The only difference is that we know in advance its 14 days quarantine for *all* countries, rather than it being dependent on Boris' strategy of pulling countries out of a Tombola.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

She was probably silly to go in the first place awaiting a result but in all seriousness what option did she have. Miles away from home, what was she supposed to do? Asking as what is the legally correct thing to do in this position? I don't know.

The guidance is very clear:
If you have symptoms you self isolate and request a test and you stay in isolation until you have either a negative result or until at least 10 ays elapses
If you have received a positive test result you remain in self isolation for at least 10 days

What you not do is travel hundreds of miles on public transport (between your residences), attend your place of work, then (having had a positive test) travel hundreds on miles on public transport from one house to another,

This is not a minor lapse in judgement or an technical infringement of the rules - this is a blatant, deliberate breach and is completely indefensible.
Both the First Minister and the Speaker of the Commons went as close to ripping her a new one as parliamentary language allows

As to traveling "home" - she has been an MP since 2015 so has jointly lived in London and Scotland for over 5 years and will have suitable accommodation in both places.
I can fully understand the wish to be close to family if infected or even just isolating but there are rules in place and both governments have forced thousands of students to isolate in far less suitable conditions miles away from any of their family and support networks

The woman is an idiot and should resign as an MP with immediate effect (she's already suspended from the SNP and I fully expect will be expelled in due course).
I hope Police Scotland and the Metropolitan Police both investigate and fine/prosecute (breaches have occurred in both jusristictions)

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The guidance is very clear:
If you have symptoms you self isolate and request a test and you stay in isolation until you have either a negative result or until at least 10 ays elapses
If you have received a positive test result you remain in self isolation for at least 10 days

What you not do is travel hundreds of miles on public transport (between your residences), attend your place of work, then (having had a positive test) travel hundreds on miles on public transport from one house to another,

This is not a minor lapse in judgement or an technical infringement of the rules - this is a blatant, deliberate breach and is completely indefensible.
Both the First Minister and the Speaker of the Commons went as close to ripping her a new one as parliamentary language allows

As to traveling "home" - she has been an MP since 2015 so has jointly lived in London and Scotland for over 5 years and will have suitable accommodation in both places.
I can fully understand the wish to be close to family if infected or even just isolating but there are rules in place and both governments have forced thousands of students to isolate in far less suitable conditions miles away from any of their family and support networks

The woman is an idiot and should resign as an MP with immediate effect (she's already suspended from the SNP and I fully expect will be expelled in due course).
I hope Police Scotland and the Metropolitan Police both investigate and fine/prosecute (breaches have occurred in both jusristictions)

Isn't compulsory detention still an option for those confirmed positive? Particularly for those it is believed will not self-isolate properly! Time for some porridge for the MP. It will also give out an appropriate message to those who think the law (never mind guidance) is some kind of self-selection buffet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure the IoM is a lovely place, but I wouldn't call being stuck to it and perhaps Guernsey as being freedom.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I would rather have a normal life but be unable to leave Buckinghamshire for a year (which is vaguely comparable) than to have the present faff in place but be able to travel. Travel is an occasional nicety, everyday life is more important.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2020 ==

At least our government has a consistent and clear message and isn't engaging in a high-stakes game of Quarantine Bingo. The only difference is that we know in advance its 14 days quarantine for *all* countries, rather than it being dependent on Boris' strategy of pulling countries out of a Tombola.

There's only I think 5 left that either we don't quarantine or they don't quarantine us. They might as well chuck it back on, to be honest - summer holiday season is finished, and it's the Scum-reader's summer holiday they wanted to ensure could happen.

 

[Richard Scott]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I would rather have a normal life but be unable to leave Buckinghamshire for a year (which is vaguely comparable) than to have the present faff in place but be able to travel. Travel is an occasional nicety, everyday life is more important.

You carry on but it's a big no thank you from me as my close friends and family don't live in my county. Please think of others before making sweeping statements like this.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm not stuck, I can leave and I can return at any time.

I have to quarantine for 14 days when I get back, but how is that any different to the Brits who went on holiday to Spain or Greece or Turkey?

At least our government has a consistent and clear message and isn't engaging in a high-stakes game of Quarantine Bingo. The only difference is that we know in advance its 14 days quarantine for *all* countries, rather than it being dependent on Boris' strategy of pulling countries out of a Tombola.

Ok, qudos on the quarantine. But you still have to deal with the virus, when the UK finally accepts that the virus is here for good, the IoM still has an issue. Do you retain quarantine measures forever?

 

[jtuk]

Do we know whether the train used by that Scottish MP was identified, and deep cleaned?

Never get this point. How long exactly do you think that the virus can live for outside of a human host? Put the unit out of service for a couple of days, job done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You carry on but it's a big no thank you from me as my close friends and family don't live in my county. Please think of others before making sweeping statements like this.

My family doesn't either, but again I don't see them that often so I'd put up with Zoom for a year or so in order to get greater daily freedom.

 

[Tetchytyke]

when the UK finally accepts that the virus is here for good, the IoM still has an issue. Do you retain quarantine measures forever?

I think we're in the same position as anyone else, restrictions will ease off as infection rates do. And infection rates will drop off eventually.

But in the meantime we have a significant level of normality within our bubble, far in excess of the normality in pretty much all of the rest of Europe.

I think that stricter quarantine rules earlier, especially for those coming from higher risk countries, would have saved the UK a lot of the mess it is now in.

I still don't understand what people mean by "accept the virus is here for good". It seems to be used as shorthand for "pretend it doesn't exist and just carry on as before".

 

[talldave]

My family doesn't either, but again I don't see them that often so I'd put up with Zoom for a year or so in order to get greater daily freedom.

I have daily freedom already. No mask, never been challenged. Only slight inconvenience is researching places in advance to know if its OK or run by Coronaphobes and obviously skipping the Coronaphobe venues.

I know nothing about bubbles and rules of anything. I encountered my first pavement rage Corona Karen this week who thought me and another guy who stood aside to give her room weren't giving her enough space - she got a verbal volley from me of exactly what I thought of her. Not bad I guess for first incident in 7 months.

The only sad loss is no hugs/kisses for elderly parents.

 

[Richard Scott]

My family doesn't either, but again I don't see them that often so I'd put up with Zoom for a year or so in order to get greater daily freedom.

Afraid I couldn't, nearly sent me round the bend last time, no way I could do a year, especially as neither family not close friends live nearby.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2020 ==

I think we're in the same position as anyone else, restrictions will ease off as infection rates do. And infection rates will drop off eventually.

But in the meantime we have a significant level of normality within our bubble, far in excess of the normality in pretty much all of the rest of Europe.

I think that stricter quarantine rules earlier, especially for those coming from higher risk countries, would have saved the UK a lot of the mess it is now in.

I still don't understand what people mean by "accept the virus is here for good". It seems to be used as shorthand for "pretend it doesn't exist and just carry on as before".

There are many European countries which are more normal than UK. Do you really think the people who went away caused rates to soar? I think you're looking for a scapegoat here. As for virus is here for good, well it is. We either learn to live with it or we carry on like we are forever; it's not pretending it doesn't exist - we know it exists. Current restrictions are the pretend folly, thinking they can control it. Realising we have to live with it is the reality, whether you like it or not.

 

[trainophile]

Never get this point. How long exactly do you think that the virus can live for outside of a human host? Put the unit out of service for a couple of days, job done.

Isn't it three days on a hard surface, e.g. a train table?

 

[Tetchytyke]

There are many European countries which are more normal than UK.

I don't live in the UK

Do you really think the people who went away caused rates to soar? I think you're looking for a scapegoat here.

Yes, I think people going away was a big issue. They went away, caught it, then brought it back. As we saw in Bolton where a significant spike could be traced back to one man who caught it in Spain, went out on his return anyway, and spread the wealth across the whole town.

A 'super-spreader' could be partly responsible for causing Bolton spike

Andy Burnham revealed he had heard reports of a 'super-spreader' in the town who had gone out drinking after returning from holiday

www.google.com

The mayor revealed he had heard reports of a ‘super-spreader’ in the town who had gone out drinking after returning from holiday.

He was told that someone coming back from holiday and going out drinking “is linked to a large part of the problem”.

I don't blame people for going away as soon as the government said they could. I think the UK government were too quick to allow it. I think there should have been stricter controls on returns, and that goes all the way back to March.

Current restrictions are the pretend folly, thinking they can control it. Realising we have to live with it is the reality, whether you like it or not.

We are "living with it" with these restrictions. As I said, the phrase appears to mainly be used by people who actually mean we should pretend it doesn't exist and carry on regardless.

 

[Pete_uk]

There are no social distancing rules on the Isle of Man at all. None. No masks, no sitting 2m apart, no bans on singing in the pub, no rule of six.

How is anyone still alive there?

 

[Moderating team]

Please can we stick to the thread title: Quarantine

Thank you

 

[Howardh]

I'm sure the IoM is a lovely place, but I wouldn't call being stuck to it and perhaps Guernsey as being freedom.

having put up with the last three weeks in Bolton under severe lockdown (no hospitality venues open) we have our limited freedom back now...and what a relief. I'd much rather have full "freedom" in a small area (like the Isle of Man) than limited/restricted over a large area.

Just think of all the things I can safely do right now on the Isle of Man that I can't do here....example...date a stranger*!

OK, it's possible as long as you are in a bar, tabled served, keep socially distant, don't have close conversation, shake hands, kiss, more.....