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Quarantine

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RomeoCharlie71

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UK ministers have said they will not adopt Scotland’s harsher hotel quarantine regime, increasing the prospect of checkpoints being erected on the English border.

Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, dismissed SNP calls to impose mandatory quarantine in hotels for all travellers from outside the British isles, saying it was “not practical” and would close off vital supply routes for essential goods such as Covid vaccines.

In Scotland, all international arrivals, not just those arriving from 33 “red list” countries as is the case in England, will have to go through 10 nights of state-supervised quarantine from Monday.

However, there is a flaw in the SNP plan, with nothing currently in place to stop Scottish residents flying into England from non-red list countries and then travelling to Scotland by road or rail.

Although discussions are ongoing, UK Government sources last night played down the prospect of Tory ministers agreeing to the SNP’s proposed solution, which would see Scots identified at English airports and then forced to quarantine south of the border.

Michael Matheson, the SNP transport secretary, also suggested the Scottish Government was considering road and rail checks at the border with England to prevent Scots from trying to cheat the new curbs, if necessary.

“We’re looking at the possibility of a range of measures and whether the individual should then have to come to a quarantine facility within Scotland,” he said.

“However, the danger with that approach and the challenge with that approach is that it involves individuals travelling potentially on public transport to get to that particular facility.”

Six hotels have been block-booked in Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow, with up to 1,300 rooms available. Travellers arriving into Scotland will be forced to pay £1,750 for the compulsory stay.

Nicola Sturgeon has repeatedly pressed the UK Government to follow her lead by imposing a blanket quarantine requirement, with only very limited exceptions.

She has claimed this is necessary to prevent the reimportation of the virus and potentially dangerous new strains. However, Mr Shapps dismissed the call on Wednesday.

“Scotland is in a slightly different position,” he said. “A lot of their supply chain comes through England.

“If we were to do what Scotland have done we would actually be closing off their supply routes for critical goods.

“Sometimes people need to come and go, we wouldn’t have the vaccines, we wouldn’t have medicine for all sorts of purposes, we wouldn’t have food on the shelves

“There would be massive social costs and economic costs. That’s not practical.”

It is likely that the rules north of the border will remain in place for several months, meaning an effective ban on overseas summer holidays for Scots, even once existing travel restrictions are eased.

Mr Matheson suggested that lifting of restrictions could only come once vaccination programmes had been rolled out across the world, not just in Scotland.

“We don’t want these restrictions to be in place any longer than they have to be," he said.

“But one of the principal reasons that we are introducing the quarantine or the managed isolation provision in Scotland is to protect the roll-out of our vaccination programme.

“So the likelihood of any change in this is going to be dependent upon the roll-out of our own vaccination programme, and the progress it’s made internationally in the roll-out of the vaccination programme.”

Meanwhile, airport chiefs hit out at the lack of consultation on the plans.

An Edinburgh airport spokesman said: “We await to hear how they intend to implement this, how it will be enforced, who will enforce it and what we are being asked to contribute.

“The requirement for restrictions is understood, but we also need to know when we and many other businesses impacted by this decision can expect support to allow us to plan for some sort of recovery.”
(my bold)

So, the loopholes have been spotted and the best the SNP can come up with is travel checks between Scotland and England being "considered". That'll be some long queues on the A1 and M6!

Even airports don't know how the fantastic quarantine plan is going to work. Going well I see.
 
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NorthOxonian

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(my bold)

So, the loopholes have been spotted and the best the SNP can come up with is travel checks between Scotland and England being "considered". That'll be some long queues on the A1 and M6!

Even airports don't know how the fantastic quarantine plan is going to work. Going well I see.
But there are huge numbers of ways across the Scottish border. Are they going to check every back road in North Northumberland? Every passenger on the hourly 79 bus into Dumfries?
 

VauxhallandI

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This is ridiculous, my family live in Scotland.

Maybe it’s time to roll out the “I made a decision on what was best for my family” a la Cummings.
 

initiation

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I saw this survey shared yesterday...Supposedly 64% of people think the 10 year jail rule for lying on the form is 'about right' or 'not harsh enough'

Whatever you think of Yougov, even if that value is halved it is crazy we are in the position where so many people believe that is an appropriate and proportionate punishment.
 

takno

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I saw this survey shared yesterday...Supposedly 64% of people think the 10 year jail rule for lying on the form is 'about right' or 'not harsh enough'

Whatever you think of Yougov, even if that value is halved it is crazy we are in the position where so many people believe that is an appropriate and proportionate punishment.
Those daily polls are just something yougov put up as social media fluff. They're not even as accurate a representation of opinion as a Twitter poll, since it's even easier to vote twice.

Personally when I see one of these results I just reflect on the basic ethics and reliability of an organisation that's willing to put its name and reputation behind something that obviously awful.
 

kristiang85

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I saw this survey shared yesterday...Supposedly 64% of people think the 10 year jail rule for lying on the form is 'about right' or 'not harsh enough'

Whatever you think of Yougov, even if that value is halved it is crazy we are in the position where so many people believe that is an appropriate and proportionate punishment.

Interestingly, when the posted this on twitter, someone did exactly the same poll below for the Twitter users to answer. Out of 2,266 votes so far the results are:
Too Harsh - 82.1%
About Right - 14.5%
Not Harsh Enough - 3.4%

I'm not sure what those think it's not harsh enough want to do - capital punishment?
 

Kite159

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Interestingly, when the posted this on twitter, someone did exactly the same poll below for the Twitter users to answer. Out of 2,266 votes so far the results are:
Too Harsh - 82.1%
About Right - 14.5%
Not Harsh Enough - 3.4%

I'm not sure what those think it's not harsh enough want to do - capital punishment?

They probably want Soviet style Gulags :lol:
 

Bantamzen

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Well according to the BBC News feed, the quarantine hotel portal has already fallen over, great start there then... :lol:
 

chris11256

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How long do we think it'll be before Boris is forced to cancel the G7 summit on Cornwall? Can't really have an in person summit of world leaders & thousands of their staffers all bypassing our mandatory 10 day self isolation period.
 

joncombe

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How long do we think it'll be before Boris is forced to cancel the G7 summit on Cornwall? Can't really have an in person summit of world leaders & thousands of their staffers all bypassing our mandatory 10 day self isolation period.
Of course you can. The quarantine doesn't apply to important people. Only to the little people.
 

chris11256

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Of course you can. The quarantine doesn't apply to important people. Only to the little people.
You read my mind! Imagine the headlines 'World leaders being vaccine busting variant into the country as the UK plunges back into lockdown'
 

SJN

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Seen elsewhere people saying we can’t go abroad even if all vaccinated here as still risk bringing in mutated virus from abroad which the vaccine might not cover. They want borders closed all this year at least!! It never ends.
 

Bikeman78

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Grant Shapps was on BBC Breakfast saying that international travel restrictions won’t be lifted until ‘everybody’ in the UK has been vaccinated.

I’d probably hold off booking any trips forever then, as a good number of people won’t be vaccinated.
Which is bonkers. There are plenty of other legal activities that are more likely to kill people in their 20s or 30s than Covid. Even walking along a pavement is probably more risky.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Interestingly, when the posted this on twitter, someone did exactly the same poll below for the Twitter users to answer. Out of 2,266 votes so far the results are:
Too Harsh - 82.1%
About Right - 14.5%
Not Harsh Enough - 3.4%

I'm not sure what those think it's not harsh enough want to do - capital punishment?
That would be ironic. Killing people to "save lives!"
 

chris11256

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I think it goes back to the government being deliberately pessimistic through not wanting to be accused of over promising again. I do think travel this summer will be a lot better than the government is currently saying.
 

Ken H

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If not self isolating becomes an imprisonable offence would this have implications as far as DBS and criminal records are concerned (even if the threat of a custodial sentence is never used)? At the moment, AFAIK all Covid related offences are non recordable offences which means that like a speeding offence even if it went to court it would not be recordable but what happens if it comes imprisonable if it is a possible maximum sentence of 10 years that is up there with some pretty serious offences (I think even death by dangerous driving only had maximum 10 years). As these are only temporary laws if you did get a criminal record would the DBS be spent or wiped after the end of the emergency powers does that have to be the case?
Think its just the existing fraud law.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Okay, we get it - you don't personally want to go abroad and are keen to extend unpleasant measures around as many people who are not you as possible. Some of us are trying to manage multi-national teams, and could do with travelling to some other perfectly safe countries without having 10 days of overpriced 3-start discomfort to look forward to on our return. There might have been an argument for the government doing this in January last year if they were extremely forward-thinking, but doing it for more than a very select few countries at any point since has been pointless.
its only southern africa, south america and protugal........


for now
 

takno

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its only southern africa, south america and protugal........
Not in Scotland it's not. In Scotland it's from anywhere, and the Krankiocracy we have up here is off on a full scale rant about how the whole UK should be doing the same. That idiocy is what my original comment was replying to
 

Skimpot flyer

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Not in Scotland it's not. In Scotland it's from anywhere, and the Krankiocracy we have up here is off on a full scale rant about how the whole UK should be doing the same. That idiocy is what my original comment was replying to
So, let me get this straight Nicola.
You extol the virtues of an independent Scotland, yet you moan about England having a policy that is not adopted UK-wide, arguing that they should not assert their right to independence???
 

takno

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So, let me get this straight Nicola.
You extol the virtues of an independent Scotland, yet you moan about England having a policy that is not adopted UK-wide, arguing that they should not assert their right to independence???
Well, she sent her more dispensable deputy to say it, but their pathetic attempts to pretend they are a national government are gruesome to watch
 

P Binnersley

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The latest in trying to get tough on new variants:




There are several flaws I can see with this, maybe around enforcement but also the jail and court space probably doesn't exist. Also, what happens if another new variant emerges here in "home-grown" fashion?

Looking at the sentencing guidelines you would probably only get a fine or community order for a first offence. The fine could be less than the cost of the hotel.
 

joncombe

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Government now announced that there will no longer be a weekly review of the "red list" of countries and instead new countries could be added at just a few hours notice.

So go on holiday risk paying £1750 for imprisonment in a Travelodge. Lovely.
 

kristiang85

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Melbourne is now locked down again due to a few cases linked to a quarantine hotel.

For all those who uphold Australia as the bastion of pandemic management, is this really a way forward? Having cities in fear of immediate lockdown whenever a couple of cases pop up? This is now Melbourne's third lockdown, the same as here....
 

35B

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Melbourne is now locked down again due to a few cases linked to a quarantine hotel.

For all those who uphold Australia as the bastion of pandemic management, is this really a way forward? Having cities in fear of immediate lockdown whenever a couple of cases pop up? This is now Melbourne's third lockdown, the same as here....
And the quid pro quo is that if they don't have those cases, people can lead pretty normal lives within that perimeter, including pubs, beaches, etc.
 

Yew

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And the quid pro quo is that if they don't have those cases, people can lead pretty normal lives within that perimeter, including pubs, beaches, etc.
Much like the people of Sweden and Florida...
 

kristiang85

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And the quid pro quo is that if they don't have those cases, people can lead pretty normal lives within that perimeter, including pubs, beaches, etc.

But pubs can fully stock on food only for it to be all wasted at a moments notice? People can make plans for weddings or events but never be totally sure it will be fine to go ahead?

It's not a way to live. Having a mature attitude to death and learning to live alongside the virus - as we do with many other risks in life - is the only way.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Government now announced that there will no longer be a weekly review of the "red list" of countries and instead new countries could be added at just a few hours notice.

So go on holiday risk paying £1750 for imprisonment in a Travelodge. Lovely.
A work colleague asks: what if, after Passport Control, you assault a police officer in the Arrivals lounge?
Will you be taken to a secure facility where you would presumably have to remain until you test negative?
The low-cost option
<joking>
 

brad465

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Melbourne is now locked down again due to a few cases linked to a quarantine hotel.

For all those who uphold Australia as the bastion of pandemic management, is this really a way forward? Having cities in fear of immediate lockdown whenever a couple of cases pop up? This is now Melbourne's third lockdown, the same as here....
Even worse for our Government, it's been revealed our quarantine is to be less strict than Australia's, so goodness knows how pointless it is if the very strict quarantine in Australia still sees leaks like this one:


England's hotel quarantine system could be less stringent than Australia's scheme, a BBC analysis has found.

A copy of the government's official requirements for hotel operators, ahead of its launch on Monday, showed rules were looser in several key areas.

In England, the rules allow guests time outside with security staff, seen in Australia as putting workers at risk.

Home Office minister Victoria Atkins said the rules would be "amongst the strongest in the world".

She told the BBC those arriving from "red list" countries - deemed high-risk due to new virus variants - would face strict measures even before they departed for the UK.

The requirement to quarantine in a hotel applies to British and Irish citizens, and UK residents arriving in England from such countries - including Portugal, Brazil and South Africa.

In Scotland, all those arriving internationally by air will have to isolate in hotels.

The scheme begins on Monday at a cost of £1,750 for an individual.

It comes as Home Secretary Priti Patel urged people to "persevere" with England's booking website, where travellers secure rooms and new mandatory tests, after it was hit by technical issues.
 

Kite159

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Even worse for our Government, it's been revealed our quarantine is to be less strict than Australia's, so goodness knows how pointless it is if the very strict quarantine in Australia still sees leaks like this one:


Yet I bet if they introduced measures pretty much the same as the Aussies, the media will be up in arms about them being far too tight and that "won't someone think of the smokers" or "imagine spending a couple weeks locked up in a room where the window only opens a couple of inches" etc.

Whatever they introduced, the media/Labour wouldn't have been happy, either "too strict" or "not strict enough" depending which way the wind was blowing
 

kristiang85

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Interestingly, when the posted this on twitter, someone did exactly the same poll below for the Twitter users to answer. Out of 2,266 votes so far the results are:
Too Harsh - 82.1%
About Right - 14.5%
Not Harsh Enough - 3.4%

I'm not sure what those think it's not harsh enough want to do - capital punishment?

The secondary Twitter poll actually got almost as many votes as the original YouGov poll. Now given YouGov posts will have a wide audience and not just anti-lockdown people, 83% against the measure is a pretty big number.

Even if you add it to the YouGov data, which means a survey of 8,000+ adults, these are the results (if you ignore the don't knows):

Too Harsh - 58%
About Right - 34%
Not Harsh Enough - 8%

Which I think is much more in line with the attitudes to this nationwide.
 
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