Qualified Driver application

[LadyManoRTCD]

Does anyone know if manoeuvre/shutters are classed as qualified drivers as far as applying for mainline jobs is concerned? I'm guessing as long as you know the traction for the job you're applying for its route knowledge you need to learn?

 

[Johncleesefan]

Shunters are competant in the same rule book and traction. Just not routes

 

[CreamODcrop]

Big difference driving and stopping 125mph. I know a shunter who had to complete the whole driving course for mainline as a trainee. Although would imagine would help a lot getting into a position.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Shunters are competant in the same rule book and traction. Just not routes

Or mainline handling...

 

[TDK]

Does anyone know if manoeuvre/shutters are classed as qualified drivers as far as applying for mainline jobs is concerned? I'm guessing as long as you know the traction for the job you're applying for its route knowledge you need to learn?

A simple answer is yes for rules and regs but a shunters training needs analysis will be a lot higher than a qualified mainline driver that will unfortunately put you at the bottom of the pile.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Surely a shunt driver isn't going to be need to be taught the full range of out of course working, etc, as they will never have any need to know it?
Haven't had much to do with the concept, but those I have come across were trained in what they needed to know, not the full package.

Full training course required, entry as a trainee driver.

 

[455driver]

Shunters are still competent in <some of> the same rule book and <some bits of the> traction. Just not routes

Edited for accuracy!

A Shunter/depot driver is not competent in all the rulebook or all the required traction knowledge so no they are not classed as qualified to mainline standard, they would have to go through the same course as any other trainee because it is far too difficult to sort out which bits they already know.
Saying that a depot driver/shunter would probably be looked on quite favourably at the recruitment stage so it will give them an advantage there!

 

[Johncleesefan]

Cheers 455, my ignorance on the subject shows

 

[455driver]

Cheers 455, my ignorance on the subject shows

Not ignorance on your part at all, just a little lack of overall knowledge (we are all guilty of that one ), you live and learn!

 

[Dave1987]

Most Depot Drivers do a full rules course but don't go into masses of detail on the stuff they won't use as part of their jobs. Can we not turn this into another Depot Driver bashing thread please? As a former depot driver myself who is now mainline I believe that it helped me immensely especially when it comes to traction knowledge. Plus my rules course was less than half the time that someone of the street has to do because it was basically a refresher. There was a West Anglia course who started two weeks before us yet I had been passed out and driving for over two months by the time they were starting their pass out week. A depot driver doesn't need a full course just depends on the TOC. In response to the OP, as a depot driver you have to apply as a trainee driver unless you have right of automatic promotion which is very rare now but a clean record as a depot driver should make you a very attractive candidate.

 

[Class2ldn]

There was two shunters on my trainee course.
Both failed the mainline handling as they couldn't adapt after driving at 5mph for such a long time.
Ones back shunting the other is a guard.

 

[Dave1987]

There was two shunters on my trainee course.
Both failed the mainline handling as they couldn't adapt after driving at 5mph for such a long time.
Ones back shunting the other is a guard.

Well virtually all Ilford Depot Drivers seem to make the conversion easily! Clearly the individual rather than the fact they were depot drivers.

 

[LadyManoRTCD]

I should've been more specific as I know there's a big difference in how much of the rule book a driver needs to know compared to a shunter & the fact that mainline drivers travel at higher speeds, I think it was more of a 'is it worth a shot applying because I drive a train.. Not qualified on mainline but passed out to drive or wait for a Trainee Driver vacancy?

Thanks for all replies!

 

[TDK]

Most Depot Drivers do a full rules course but don't go into masses of detail on the stuff they won't use as part of their jobs. Can we not turn this into another Depot Driver bashing thread please? As a former depot driver myself who is now mainline I believe that it helped me immensely especially when it comes to traction knowledge. Plus my rules course was less than half the time that someone of the street has to do because it was basically a refresher. There was a West Anglia course who started two weeks before us yet I had been passed out and driving for over two months by the time they were starting their pass out week. A depot driver doesn't need a full course just depends on the TOC. In response to the OP, as a depot driver you have to apply as a trainee driver unless you have right of automatic promotion which is very rare now but a clean record as a depot driver should make you a very attractive candidate.

Did you apply as a qualified driver for an ad that asked for qualified drivers or did you apply for a trainee driver position - this is the question that was asked!

 

[red2005]

I should've been more specific as I know there's a big difference in how much of the rule book a driver needs to know compared to a shunter & the fact that mainline drivers travel at higher speeds, I think it was more of a 'is it worth a shot applying because I drive a train.. Not qualified on mainline but passed out to drive or wait for a Trainee Driver vacancy?

Thanks for all replies!

there's no harm in applying mate! a few toc's out there seem to use the shunter driver grade as the way in before they actually let you go mainline driving, like a natural progression sort of thing.

I could be mistaken but isn't that the way Anglia used to do it when it was under national express?

good luck

 

[scott118]

there's no harm in applying mate! a few toc's out there seem to use the shunter driver grade as the way in before they actually let you go mainline driving, like a natural progression sort of thing.

I could be mistaken but isn't that the way Anglia used to do it when it was under national express?

good luck

used to..it is no longer the case as natural progression has now ceased under the last pay agreement. Shunters there, should they wish to progress, need to apply, like any other qualified driver would have to. A shunter with a clean safety of the line record, would already be known to the company, for sure...

 

[Dave1987]

Did you apply as a qualified driver for an ad that asked for qualified drivers or did you apply for a trainee driver position - this is the question that was asked!

I had the automatic right of promotion to mainline which is no longer available to new depot drivers at my TOC. But I've heard many DM's say that depot drivers with good records will be looked on favourably for any trainee mainline position that comes up that they apply for. Sorry but a lot of threads on this forum to do with depot drivers descends into a slagging off of the grade.

 

[A-driver]

Simple answers...

No you can't apply for a qualified driver as a shunter as your qualifications for shunt driver will be TOC based, not national (or EU now) so you are not classed as a mainline driver in terms of psychometric, medical or rules. The only people who can apply for jobs as qualified mainline drivers are those currently employed as mainline train drivers or above (or driver managers, ops standards managers with a licence, driver trainers and assessors etc).

As a shunter you could apply for a trainee driver job and would stand a good chance due to your experience as a shunter. You would certainly still have to complete a full rules course, full traction course in traction not signed presently and 250 hours driving under instruction. For logistical reasons most TOCs would make you re-sign traction to but just because it's easier for filling courses.

 

[red2005]

used to..it is no longer the case as natural progression has now ceased under the last pay agreement. Shunters there, should they wish to progress, need to apply, like any other qualified driver would have to. A shunter with a clean safety of the line record, would already be known to the company, for sure...

Makes sense i suppose, looks like that is pretty much the last way into mainline driving other than a full application gone then