Pyjama Party to save the NightJet

[HS2isgood]

They did, a part immediately after Macron's first election, and the most recent as part of the post-COVID/election political games.

They are crucial for some communities but that's the same thing with the day Intercités on the POLT line (the classical Paris-Orléans-Limoges-Toulouse), neglect (the night stock isn't and is quite well maintained for it's 40 year age, but the whole operation) and unwillingness by the central government to do anything that is not high speed.

There is a tender currently ongoing since Feburary about leasing new stock and locos for the night train in replacement but the current economical and political situation will probably impact this as well.

The tender is still going forward, 180 coaches and 27 locos, there was some recent news on it.

 

[signed]

The tender is still going forward, 180 coaches and 30 locos, there was some recent news on it.

Yes, the tender has closed to applicants in March/April and selection is supposedly underway, we'll see how it will get on but I don't hold my breath

 

[AlexNL]

The only exception being Ouigo Train Classique, but I have no idea how that got started.

The original Ouigo concept started out as an experiment to increase productivity of the existing TGV fleet (higher utilisation, higher capacity) and was quite successful. It also prevented companies like Flixbus from setting up a nationwide long distance bus network, unlike what happened in Germany where the arrival of Flixbus and the likes haemorrhaged DB Fernverkehr's ridership.

Ouigo Train Classique is yet another experiment: even though the trains carry SNCF branding, they aren't actually operated by SNCF. They're operated by a company called Oslo which is basically a rail startup (think Lumo like) with its own terms & conditions, which are more competitive than is the case with the conventional "cheminot" contracts.

 

[signed]

Ouigo Train Classique is yet another experiment: even though the trains carry SNCF branding, they aren't actually operated by SNCF. They're operated by a company called Oslo which is basically a rail startup (think Lumo like) with its own terms & conditions, which are more competitive than is the case with the conventional "cheminot" contracts.

Yes, but my remark was about the fact that it is very foreign for anything SNCF Voyageurs to want to deal first hand with non-TGV, non-contracted (by the regions or the central gov), services nowadays.

They are serious as they are currently are refurbishing the coaches, but the track record wouldn't have predicted that.

 

[AlexNL]

Yes, but my remark was about the fact that it is very foreign for anything SNCF Voyageurs to want to deal first hand with non-TGV, non-contracted (by the regions or the central gov), services nowadays.

They are serious as they are currently are refurbishing the coaches, but the track record wouldn't have predicted that.

The answer to that remark probably starts with an F. Flixtrain were preparing to launch 5 routes in France (Paris - Brussels, Paris - Bordeaux, Paris - Lyon, Paris - Toulouse and Paris - Nice (overnight) but postponed those plans when covid hit.

Ouigo Train Classique is basically the same concept as Flixtrain: use old coaches and a loco to operate low-cost services competing with the national operator.

And by creating a separate company for its operation, SNCF could also try to see whether it was feasible (legally, socially, to unions) to set up a different company with its own terms & conditions for the operation of trains. Which it was, and which has now been replicated several times (Stretto, SNCF Voyageurs Etoile de Amiens, SNCF Voyageurs Sud Azur).

 

[williamn]

I’d say an average of 70% full is actually pretty good. Of course if SNCF actually sold tickets for it that would have helped…

 

[AlexNL]

Of course if SNCF actually sold tickets for it that would have helped…

According to the SNCF press release, that they did not do that has nothing to do with this specific train - but rather SNCF having severed the connection with booking systems of foreign operators for technical reasons. From 2026 they want to have it working again, they're switching to a new system.

Sounds rather lackadaisical on the side of SNCF, and I don't quite understand how a commercial enterprise can decide that it's fine to hobble an important sales channel, but I guess it's what it is.

 

[MicroLithium]

According to the SNCF press release, that they did not do that has nothing to do with this specific train - but rather SNCF having severed the connection with booking systems of foreign operators for technical reasons. From 2026 they want to have it working again, they're switching to a new system.

Sounds rather lackadaisical on the side of SNCF, and I don't quite understand how a commercial enterprise can decide that it's fine to hobble an important sales channel, but I guess it's what it is.

Some people have been rather more harshly critical of SNCF's approach here - for example https://jonworth.eu/sncf-is-stoppin...competence-and-communicated-with-malevolence/ highlighting efforts to shift the blame to other operators, despite it being SNCF's failure to get their booking system updated

 

[signed]

Sounds rather lackadaisical on the side of SNCF, and I don't quite understand how a commercial enterprise can decide that it's fine to hobble an important sales channel, but I guess it's what it is.

SNCF (all of the group) doesn't care about anything they don't own a share in (i.e. all their own services, services they are mandated to offer (like the privatised TER services that will come in some regions), DB/SNCF coop, Eurostar, Lyria and that's basically it), and that has been the case for decades. It's not surprising it has gotten that bad. Though I join everybody to say it's sad

 

[doc7austin]

Why is everyone so critical of SNCF ?

I believe that ÖBB is cutting the Nightjet to Paris due to bad economics. High-fare paying were staying away because of the unreliability of the Nightjet product itself (severe delays, downgrades, outright last-minute cancellations).

With the introduction of the ICE Paris-Berlin, another option for green train travel has emerged.

 

[signed]

I believe that ÖBB is cutting the Nightjet to Paris due to bad economics. High-fare paying were staying away because of the unreliability of the Nightjet product itself (severe delays, downgrades, outright last-minute cancellations).

With the introduction of the ICE Paris-Berlin, another option for green train travel has emerged.

Yes, that has basically been said by SNCF, but I am also of the opinion that if it wasn't for the months-at-a-time cuts due to German trackworks, we wouldn't arrive at that point this early.

If the service had ran as scheduled, and the promised daily service had happened as scheduled (but that's because NJNG is a shambles), I would have seen much more success, especially when the Vectron is getting certified right now for France and they could have just done one loco all the way.

Why is everyone so critical of SNCF ?

Some (unwillingless to hostility to the prospect of having normal international relations with anybody else than DB, SBB and CFL, doing the bare minimum with the classic line services...) parts of the criticism are founded in reality.

SNCF is also knowingly used in France by everyone as an easy bullying target and blame shifter. When most of the times SNCF themselves has nothing to do with it and it's just underinvestment or poor strategy.

 

[rvdborgt]

I believe that ÖBB is cutting the Nightjet to Paris due to bad economics. High-fare paying were staying away because of the unreliability of the Nightjet product itself (severe delays, downgrades, outright last-minute cancellations).

Additionally, France is one of the most expensive countries to run a train in, so economics were never going to be great.

 

[43102EMR]

Why is everyone so critical of SNCF ?

Because a lot of what they do seems to be anti-rail rather than pro-rail… unless it’s TGV-related