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Push pull question.

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LMS 4F

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I saw the Scarborough Flyer through Castleford this morning. It had 34067. Tangmere on the front but it wasn’t steaming very well at all and the 47/57 on the back was working hard.
My question is in these circumstances how do the two drivers communicate?
 
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LMS 4F

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I thought radios but wondered if Network Rail would approve it as potential for problems must be high and of course the driver at the back has no idea what’s in front of the train.
 

hexagon789

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I thought radios but wondered if Network Rail would approve it as potential for problems must be high and of course the driver at the back has no idea what’s in front of the train.
They do use radio communication, but route knowledge will also pay a large part - so the driver of the assisting loco will know where to shut off power for a speed restriction or give assistance for a gradient etc.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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The driver at the front has full command of the train‘ speed including braking, and you can stop a train with the rear locomotive applying full power so its completely safe and just requires coordination using the radios.
 

edwin_m

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The driver at the front has full command of the train‘ speed including braking, and you can stop a train with the rear locomotive applying full power so its completely safe and just requires coordination using the radios.
Not sure about steam locos, but I recall diesels having a thing that shuts off power if the brake pipe pressure drops indicating a brake application. Otherwise it could be very hazardous if a train became divided, the brakes came on in both parts but the loco powering at the rear was enough for the portions to re-collide.
 

Deepgreen

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Not sure about steam locos, but I recall diesels having a thing that shuts off power if the brake pipe pressure drops indicating a brake application. Otherwise it could be very hazardous if a train became divided, the brakes came on in both parts but the loco powering at the rear was enough for the portions to re-collide.
Most rear steam locos were banking for short distances and were not coupled, so that they could drop back at the summit. It was a simple process that saw the rear loco buffer up, whistle in readiness and set off. There was little finesse about power application coordination with the lead loco; just open the regulator and plug away until over the top, drop back, cross over to head back to the base of the climb and repeat!
 

GRALISTAIR

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Most rear steam locos were banking for short distances and were not coupled, so that they could drop back at the summit. It was a simple process that saw the rear loco buffer up, whistle in readiness and set off. There was little finesse about power application coordination with the lead loco; just open the regulator and plug away until over the top, drop back, cross over to head back to the base of the climb and repeat!
Wasn't that the case too with diesels and The Lickey bankers?
 

43096

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Wasn't that the case too with diesels and The Lickey bankers?
And the Liège bankers in Belgium, those being for passenger trains. The process - as I remember it - was the banking loco would buffer up to the rear of the train in the platform. Dispatch would happen as normal, with the train loco just releasing the brakes. The banker would then power up and start the train moving up to around 20km/h or so before the train loco applied power.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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And the Liège bankers in Belgium, those being for passenger trains. The process - as I remember it - was the banking loco would buffer up to the rear of the train in the platform. Dispatch would happen as normal, with the train loco just releasing the brakes. The banker would then power up and start the train moving up to around 20km/h or so before the train loco applied power.

Is that the bonkers gradient climbing out of Liege towards Brussels? I reckon my Nightjet went up that at about 110mph last autumn, but then we were only 4 coaches hauled by an 8600hp electric loco :D
 

43096

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Is that the bonkers gradient climbing out of Liege towards Brussels? I reckon my Nightjet went up that at about 110mph last autumn, but then we were only 4 coaches hauled by an 8600hp electric loco :D
That's the one. Not sure there is even a banker there now any more, with more horsepower on the trains.

Back in the day, there could be up to three trains requiring banking assistance in an hour. Here's two trains in the platform with their bankers ready to go:
1724962801399.png

And if you were lucky, Kinkempois depot might send round a diesel for one of the turns...
1724962882412.png
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Presumably for passenger trains the bankers were fully attached and the trains stopped at the summit for them to be detached again?
 

43096

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Presumably for passenger trains the bankers were fully attached and the trains stopped at the summit for them to be detached again?
Not at Liège, no. The banking locos were not coupled to the train and dropped away before the summit at Ans.
 

Deepgreen

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Wasn't that the case too with diesels and The Lickey bankers?
Indeed so. Lickey was unusual in having more than one banker per train as a matter of course (along with Folkestone Harbour) and they would usually be coupled to each other but not to the train. Diesel bankers were less common but could be found mixed with steam. The Consett iron ore trains, for example, would often have mixed 9Fs and class 40s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

That's the one. Not sure there is even a banker there now any more, with more horsepower on the trains.

Back in the day, there could be up to three trains requiring banking assistance in an hour. Here's two trains in the platform with their bankers ready to go:
View attachment 164545

And if you were lucky, Kinkempois depot might send round a diesel for one of the turns...
View attachment 164546
What was the gradient there?
 

snowball

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There's a recent thread somewhere about banking and whether bankers were coupled.
 
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