Pupils taking mobile phones to school.

[alholmes]

mods note - split from here.

At the school at which I am a governor there is a long-standing rule which prohibits year 7-11 students bringing a mobile phone into school, which is very strictly enforced, and is very well supported by parents. So zip cards are definitely a necessity.

 

[m00036]

At the school at which I am a governor there is a long-standing rule which prohibits year 7-11 students bringing a mobile phone into school, which is very strictly enforced, and is very well supported by parents. So zip cards are definitely a necessity.

While somewhat off topic, I cannot believe that to be the case. Mobile phones are essential for students to have in an emergency or if there's a change in plans during the year. For sure, many schools (including mine) have strict rules about using mobile phones during the school day, but to not have that as a backup seems like a step backwards.

Admittedly my commute was rather longer than a normal secondary school commute, being around an hour including a train journey, but being able to text to say that e.g. I was needed for an extra rehearsal after school and I would need picking up from the station an hour later was essential (either that or face another hour-long walk at the other end). On the occasions I forgot my phone, I was fortunate enough to have spare change to use a payphone, but you'd struggle to find many of those nowadays!

Anyway, that all said, I agree with the views above that an Oyster zip card is more sensible than having it loaded to a phone, both due to the arguments above and also because it's prudent to keep your ticket and phone in different places, such that misplacing one of the two is not a complete disaster.

 

[alholmes]

While somewhat off topic, I cannot believe that to be the case. Mobile phones are essential for students to have in an emergency or if there's a change in plans during the year.

I assure you it’s 100% correct, I’m part of the Governing Body that approves the policy. We’ve had this policy in place for many years, was relaxed slightly during the peak of the Covid lockdown but has now been reinstated back to normal.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I assure you it’s 100% correct, I’m part of the Governing Body that approves the policy. We’ve had this policy in place for many years, was relaxed slightly during the peak of the Covid lockdown but has now been reinstated back to normal.

I think when you reckon these things are well supported by parents, a minority probably support it, and the rest are too scared to say anything against it but a all probably moaning about it behind your back

 

[jon81uk]

While somewhat off topic, I cannot believe that to be the case. Mobile phones are essential for students to have in an emergency or if there's a change in plans during the year. For sure, many schools (including mine) have strict rules about using mobile phones during the school day, but to not have that as a backup seems like a step backwards.

Admittedly my commute was rather longer than a normal secondary school commute, being around an hour including a train journey, but being able to text to say that e.g. I was needed for an extra rehearsal after school and I would need picking up from the station an hour later was essential (either that or face another hour-long walk at the other end). On the occasions I forgot my phone, I was fortunate enough to have spare change to use a payphone, but you'd struggle to find many of those nowadays!

Anyway, that all said, I agree with the views above that an Oyster zip card is more sensible than having it loaded to a phone, both due to the arguments above and also because it's prudent to keep your ticket and phone in different places, such that misplacing one of the two is not a complete disaster.

Its only in the last 20 years that mobile phones have become "standard", schools used to cope just fine without having kids carrying a phone, they would have the parents mobile or work phone number on file and if the parent needs to call in an emergency they can phone the school. No mobiles for under 11s seems very sensible.
Once in high school it can be different due to more after school activities as you suggest, but I agree with the previous comment, under 11s shouldn't need a phone.

 

[sor]

At the school at which I am a governor there is a long-standing rule which prohibits year 7-11 students bringing a mobile phone into school, which is very strictly enforced, and is very well supported by parents. So zip cards are definitely a necessity.

How many of them don't just keep it in their bag? This was in the peak Nokia era and well before the rise of the iPhone but my school had such a "ban", in reality everyone had a phone on them whether they flaunted it or not (a blind eye was often turned during breaks). As this was a rural secondary school with many of us travelling on often unreliable bus services that wound through the middle of nowhere, there'd be no way I wouldn't go without a phone.

 

[philthetube]

. Mobile phones are essential for students to have

oh dear, my parents let me attend school for 11 years without an essential item.

Do we want kids having to get their phones out while boarding a bus, extra grab and run opportunity for some of the less nice people around London.

 

[m00036]

I never said it had to be a smartphone, I had a Nokia throughout school and only got a smartphone last year (aged 21) as a work requirement. In an urban environment where everyone can travel by buses or tube which run at least at a 5-10 minute frequency, there is less to be concerned about perhaps. Anywhere else though, there are no doubt parents who would refuse to allow their children to be proactive and participate in those extra-curricular activities because of the problem if something goes wrong. Obviously they haven't always been 'essential', but in the past having some change for a payphone probably was for most. The world has changed and, while I do love environments without mobile phones, I'd personally see it as irresponsible to deprive someone of a way out in an emergency because of it.

I think what I'm getting at is for 90%+ people at 90%+ schools, a 'no mobile' policy probably works quite well - there are sufficient backups along the way (public transport and well-lit streets with reputable shops, all of which can provide support) from home to school and back that not having a mobile will not prove a problem, and will improve the quality of conversation / reduce theft, you name it. There are lots of pros. But there will be those who lose out, disproportionally those less fortunate, being those who may have to travel further on less frequent transport in less secure areas. Not being allowed a phone for that peace of mind may well be something holding them back.

It's not on topic and I promise not to message again (at least on this forum!) about it, but I think it is useful food for thought.

 

[Sm5]

At the school at which I am a governor there is a long-standing rule which prohibits year 7-11 students bringing a mobile phone into school, which is very strictly enforced, and is very well supported by parents. So zip cards are definitely a necessity

And for very good reasons, whilst 11 year olds maybe more mature, and younger ages there is far too much content they can access that isnt suitably age restricted. Similarly vulnerable children could be exposed by kids taking pictures in the corridors etc. its also, above everything else, a distraction from education.

Those obsessed on mobile ticketing for everything need to realise life isnt all about ideals and 80% best case use cases… real life is real for a reason, and they are service providers for a reason, to provide service to the community not inspite of it…

 

[Bletchleyite]

oh dear, my parents let me attend school for 11 years without an essential item.

Do we want kids having to get their phones out while boarding a bus, extra grab and run opportunity for some of the less nice people around London.

Do you think any kid that has one doesn't use it on the bus?

 

[philthetube]

Do you think any kid that has one doesn't use it on the bus?

agreed, but much more chance of it disappearing on the path while boarding, rather than on a bus with doors closed

 

[miklcct]

I would say that the chance of losing a plastic card is much more compared to losing a mobile phone.

A phone is heavy that if it falls out from your bag you will notice it immediately, but not the case with a plastic card.

 

[35B]

Its only in the last 20 years that mobile phones have become "standard", schools used to cope just fine without having kids carrying a phone, they would have the parents mobile or work phone number on file and if the parent needs to call in an emergency they can phone the school. No mobiles for under 11s seems very sensible.
Once in high school it can be different due to more after school activities as you suggest, but I agree with the previous comment, under 11s shouldn't need a phone.

Year 11 is GCSE year, the school in question is teaching 11-16 year olds. I won’t comment on the quality of the policy but do wonder if compliance is anything like at the level the school assumes. My scepticism is informed by what my children tell me of mobile phone culture in their schools.

Reverting to the question, once a child has a mobile phone then there will be many for whom using an app will be more useful than a separate card. Such an app might (and I don’t know how feasible this would be) integrate with the express mode on the device, and then show a photo if needing to prove entitlement at a manual inspection.

Some would find it good, others not, and it may be too much hassle for the value it provides - but I’m struggling to see why it shouldn’t be done at all.

 

[52290]

I would say that the chance of losing a plastic card is much more compared to losing a mobile phone.

A phone is heavy that if it falls out from your bag you will notice it immediately, but not the case with a plastic card.

Don't worry, I predict that in 50 or 100 years time they will be wired into a child's brain by a simple operation shortly after birth.

 

[AlterEgo]

mods note - split from here.

At the school at which I am a governor there is a long-standing rule which prohibits year 7-11 students bringing a mobile phone into school, which is very strictly enforced, and is very well supported by parents. So zip cards are definitely a necessity.

Hard to believe that. Not saying it’s not true but it’s such an outlandish policy it doesn’t make sense. By all means let the kids bring a mobile phone and lock it up during the school day/lessons/whatever, but it seems daft and naive that you expect teenagers to leave their house for 10 hours and leave the phone at home. I bet the school bus is full of kids showing each other Tiktok videos.

 

[pdq]

My children's school (a standard secondary school) also ban phones until 6th form. No arguments. If caught, it's forfeited for 2 days for the 1st time, then 3 days, then a week - and it has to be handed back to a responsible adult.

Anecdotally, very few children break the rule as the school has the general respect of the children and their parents.

 

[Sorcerer]

Truth be told, even if you banned children from carrying mobile phones in school, they will still always find a way to not get caught with them, especially in secondary school because the majority of a child's time there will be spent as a teenager, and I think pretty much everyone knows that they aren't exactly renowned for their obedience.

 

[AlterEgo]

My children's school (a standard secondary school) also ban phones until 6th form. No arguments. If caught, it's forfeited for 2 days for the 1st time, then 3 days, then a week - and it has to be handed back to a responsible adult.

Anecdotally, very few children break the rule as the school has the general respect of the children and their parents.

Are they banned from leaving their own house with the phone, or are they simply secured in a locker for the school day, and handed back at the end?

 

[pdq]

Are they banned from leaving their own house with the phone, or are they simply secured in a locker for the school day, and handed back at the end?

Phones are not allowed on school premises.

 

[dakta]

Interesting googling on this one, as much as I'm not a fan of the though of schools been filled with phones (think theft risk, cyberbullying etc) I also wouldn't have before thought a school could confiscate and retain pupil property beyond school hours.

Knowing the few times my nephew's used his to let his parentd know he's coming out later, or in my case to let me know where he is as i don't pick him up regularly I thought there'd be a shred of a safeguarding consideration confiscation of a communication device beyond whats necessary

 

[Sm5]

The school my little one has a policy that goes way much further…

The school can exercise right to search, delete or retain the phone, ipads, laptops and its data or apps at any time and for any purpose, purely on suspicion at any time on or off the premises.

They went as far to say apps like whatsapp, telegram, instagram, twitter and facebook are banned and would be removed from devices if discovered.

 

[Gloster]

Back in the late 1960s/early 1970s my mixed boarding and day prep school had a payphone in the main building. Most boys carried a 2p. piece so they could ring home if need be. In emergency a master would supply a coin: I suspect that it probably went on the bill, although that school would probably just charge 2p. (plenty of schools would charge extra for the service). One of my mates would ring home, let the ‘phone ring three times, put the handset down, collect his 2p., count to ten, put the 2p. back in again and repeat. His mother then knew he was ready to be collected.

I know the above was another era, but it was a simple way to fulfill the main purpose of the ‘phone. I fear that nowadays a school would be taking a rake off from the payphone takings and adjusting its rules to fit.

 

[dakta]

The school my little one has a policy that goes way much further…

The school can exercise right to search, delete or retain the phone, ipads, laptops and its data or apps at any time and for any purpose, purely on suspicion at any time on or off the premises.

They went as far to say apps like whatsapp, telegram, instagram, twitter and facebook are banned and would be removed from devices if discovered.

As I understand it there is some power for teachers to go through a phone with just cause (i.e cyber bullying) - I'd love to see removing an app from someones phone in the absence of anything further aggrevating tested in the wooden paneled theatre of justice though :/

 

[AlterEgo]

The school my little one has a policy that goes way much further…

The school can exercise right to search, delete or retain the phone, ipads, laptops and its data or apps at any time and for any purpose, purely on suspicion at any time on or off the premises.

At any time and for any purpose? Sounds illegal.

They went as far to say apps like whatsapp, telegram, instagram, twitter and facebook are banned and would be removed from devices if discovered.

Good luck getting past a PIN.

 

[birchesgreen]

The school my little one has a policy that goes way much further…

The school can exercise right to search, delete or retain the phone, ipads, laptops and its data or apps at any time and for any purpose, purely on suspicion at any time on or off the premises.

They went as far to say apps like whatsapp, telegram, instagram, twitter and facebook are banned and would be removed from devices if discovered.

Even on the premises seems dubious legally but off the premises too, how about nope.

 

[Snow1964]

I managed fine in 1970s when no one had mobile phones, and in early 70s many homes didn’t even have a landline so infant and junior school couldn’t call about third to half of parents if you were ill or there was emergency early closure etc.

My daughter is now at university, but her secondary had strict mobile phone policy, pupils were allowed to carry one when travelling to/from school, but on arrival at school had to be off all day and if one did ring or anyone used one (even to text), would end up in office and an adult would have to come to collect it. Like @pdq the duration of school keeping it increased for any repeat offences.

 

[johnnychips]

Anecdotally, about half the students getting on the 57 in Doncaster to Hayfield, Hall Cross Lower, McAuley schools, and New College 6th Form College use mobiles to ‘present’ their tickets.

 

[najaB]

The world has changed and, while I do love environments without mobile phones, I'd personally see it as irresponsible to deprive someone of a way out in an emergency because of it.

Is the world objectively more dangerous for young children than it was 20 years ago?

 

[BJames]

The school my little one has a policy that goes way much further…

The school can exercise right to search, delete or retain the phone, ipads, laptops and its data or apps at any time and for any purpose, purely on suspicion at any time on or off the premises.

They went as far to say apps like whatsapp, telegram, instagram, twitter and facebook are banned and would be removed from devices if discovered.

If I were a parent to a child at a school like this, and only discovered this policy/it was only implemented after they had started attending, I would be removing them - or expressly denying consent for this to happen without me being present. But this is way, way too over the top. I understand the concerns around social media but part of a school's duty should be to explain and explore the dangers of it, rather than shelter kids away from it and then they just download all these apps as soon as they get to Sixth Form anyway (or, far more realistically, on a second device at home/on the bus etc)

I managed fine in 1970s when no one had mobile phones, and in early 70s many homes didn’t even have a landline so infant and junior school couldn’t call about third to half of parents if you were ill or there was emergency early closure etc.

My daughter is now at university, but her secondary had strict mobile phone policy, pupils were allowed to carry one when travelling to/from school, but on arrival at school had to be off all day and if one did ring or anyone used one (even to text), would end up in office and an adult would have to come to collect it. Like @pdq the duration of school keeping it increased for any repeat offences.

My school's policy when I was there (I left 2019) was that phones were allowed at break and lunch only, if used at other times they would be confiscated and returned at the end of the day in the first instance, or to parents only on second and subsequent instances. When a new headteacher came in and took over, the policy changed to banning them, but they were allowed to be switched off and kept in bag in case of emergencies when travelling to and from school. That is the absolute strictest I would ever support, as I fully see the benefit of forcing students to engage with each other on their breaks as well, rather than be glued to phones, but further than this is completely and utterly unnecessary.

I know people managed fine in previous years and decades etc but I don't believe this is a reasonable argument to banning phones from school. The technology is there now, whether or not people like it, and the fact that it makes communicating in an emergency or rapidly developing situtation easier and faster is only a good thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the world objectively more dangerous for young children than it was 20 years ago?

Safer, in part because of mobile devices and the ability to call for help using them.