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Public transport tickets for The Hague

NCT

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I have to say, I found navigating tickets in The Hague quite hard work.

I was hoping to get an HTM day ticket. I must have stumbled across an old HTM web page that stilled talked about ticket machines on trams. Only after I got on the first tram did I find that ticket machines were being phased out from 1st Aug. I ended up using OV-Pay and had to ration the number of journeys I made that day (well I didn't have to, but one wants to avoid going over the day ticket cost if one can help it).

The next day I got an HTM day ticket on the app. I find app tickets stressful and anxiety inducing. You are not always in the comfort of privacy or safety, and I don't want to have to get my phone out before I know it's safe. Getting through a transaction on a phone is always cumbersome. That's without getting into the having data dimension. If I got a tram and then got my phone out and spent 5 minutes faffing to get my day ticket on the app, would I be counted as travelling without a ticket?

Then I realised HTM's day ticket is for HTM only. This means that despite HTM services operating to Zoetermeer and Delft, I couldn't use the bus cutting across between the two. I also couldn't use the RET Metro E, despite sharing the Randstad-rail branding with HTM operated lines 3 and 4. There's South Holland Tourist Day Ticket, but that comes in at a hefty EUR17.50, compared to EUR8.60 for the HTM only day ticket. Yes, the Tourist Day Ticket covers a much larger area but that wasn't what I needed. What missing in the day ticket product range is an all-operator ticket with the HTM Day Ticket's area of validity. The Hague - Zoetermeer - Delft is one of the options for the Regio Vrij all-operator season tickets so is considered a sensible travel area - that the equivalent day product does not exist is just odd. One of the big criticisms of British ticketing is operator specific tickets, and yet one of the supposedly best countries for public transport and integration is in fact notorious for operator specific tickets.

That OV Pay has no capping is what bugs me the most. Yes, I can see the the logic of working out which cap to apply can be complicated, but this exposes a major (IMHO) flaw of having a national one-size-fits-all model.

I find Nottingham's system much more user friendly. The all-operator Robin Hood has a tiny mark-up on the equivalent single operator tickets as to be negligible. The Robin Hood day ticket is available from bus drivers and tram stop ticket machines. There's automatic daily capping though with one caveat. Trent Barton does not participate in the Robin Hood Day Cap as it operates its own Trentbartonland cap. I suspect the logic of automatically working out which cap to apply is too complicated - the Dutch certainly haven't managed it. For residents travelling occasionally, the Robin Hood PAYG Card applies the daily cap on all participating operators including Trent Barton (with a further caveat that to include National Rail trains you still need a paper ticket). These equivalent products or ways of purchasing are not available in The Hague.

Things are a bit better in Rotterdam. As Rotterdam has a metro with good coverage of the city, and all metro stations have ticket machines, getting the Rotterdam day ticket is much easier. Still, RET tickets also have their validity defined by the operator rather than a geographic area.
 
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DanielB

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Then I realised HTM's day ticket is for HTM only. This means that despite HTM services operating to Zoetermeer and Delft, I couldn't use the bus cutting across between the two. I also couldn't use the RET Metro E, despite sharing the Randstad-rail branding with HTM operated lines 3 and 4. There's South Holland Tourist Day Ticket, but that comes in at a hefty EUR17.50, compared to EUR8.60 for the HTM only day ticket. Yes, the Tourist Day Ticket covers a much larger area but that wasn't what I needed. What missing in the day ticket product range is an all-operator ticket with the HTM Day Ticket's area of validity. The Hague - Zoetermeer - Delft is one of the options for the Regio Vrij all-operator season tickets so is considered a sensible travel area - that the equivalent day product does not exist is just odd.
Well, the Day Ticket of EBS in the Rotterdam-The Hague metropolitan area is already € 14,50 so actually the Tourist Day Ticket for the entire province of South-Holland is not that expensive actually.
Zoetermeer to Delft would cost a bit more than € 4 by bus, so combined with some more journeys travelling one day for € 17,50 is quite good value for money. (Though Zoetermeer to Delft is actually faster by tram, changing to route 19 at Leidschenveen)
That OV Pay has no capping is what bugs me the most. Yes, I can see the the logic of working out which cap to apply can be complicated, but this exposes a major (IMHO) flaw of having a national one-size-fits-all model.
It has. Capping is actually one of the possible fare systems in OVpay: it can handle free travel in a fixed area, capping, discounts and combinations of those.
RegioVrij uses the first possibility, capping is used in the Utrecht province and RRReis in the eastern part of the country offers an increasing discount the more you travel (eventually reaching a cap)
The regional authorities however decide which type of products are offered and day tickets are almost always operator specific but may be valid in pretty large regions as some operators offer their tickets under the regional brand (which may be have multiple operators using it)
 

NCT

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Well, the Day Ticket of EBS in the Rotterdam-The Hague metropolitan area is already € 14,50 so actually the Tourist Day Ticket for the entire province of South-Holland is not that expensive actually.
Zoetermeer to Delft would cost a bit more than € 4 by bus, so combined with some more journeys travelling one day for € 17,50 is quite good value for money. (Though Zoetermeer to Delft is actually faster by tram, changing to route 19 at Leidschenveen)

I'm not saying the Tourist Day Ticket is bad value, I'm saying there's a gap in the product range.

As a general rule, where there's a single operator day ticket, there ought to be a multiple operator ticket covering a similar geographical area for a small premium. This is true for most UK cities / metropolitan areas I believe.

It has. Capping is actually one of the possible fare systems in OVpay: it can handle free travel in a fixed area, capping, discounts and combinations of those.
RegioVrij uses the first possibility, capping is used in the Utrecht province and RRReis in the eastern part of the country offers an increasing discount the more you travel (eventually reaching a cap)
The regional authorities however decide which type of products are offered and day tickets are almost always operator specific but may be valid in pretty large regions as some operators offer their tickets under the regional brand (which may be have multiple operators using it)

If the technology is available, then it's all the more surprising so many authorities choose not to offer capping. Is there anywhere else other than Utrecht and RRReis that does daily capping?
 

Trainbike46

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I'm not saying the Tourist Day Ticket is bad value, I'm saying there's a gap in the product range.

As a general rule, where there's a single operator day ticket, there ought to be a multiple operator ticket covering a similar geographical area for a small premium. This is true for most UK cities / metropolitan areas I believe.



If the technology is available, then it's all the more surprising so many authorities choose not to offer capping. Is there anywhere else other than Utrecht and RRReis that does daily capping?
Zeeland either has introduced or will soon introduce capping

CORRECTION: It is similar to RRReis, in that starts with discounts for travelling a lot, and includes monthly capping.. You have to opt-in as well, it is not automatic.

 

MicroLithium

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If the technology is available, then it's all the more surprising so many authorities choose not to offer capping. Is there anywhere else other than Utrecht and RRReis that does daily capping?
GVB seemed to have quietly introduced a contactless day cap (at I think €1 over the pre-purchased day ticket price) last time I was in Amsterdam. Hard to find information about it online though

IMG_4652.jpeg
(Screenshot of OVPay app showing GVB Capped Day Fare discount applied to a metro trip)
 

NCT

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It puzzles me why capping is such an exception in the Netherlands and that’s it’s almost done reluctantly.

I’d have thought at least a daily cap should be a hygiene factor.

Are there any local transport networks in the UK accepting contactless but with no capping?
 

DanielB

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It puzzles me why capping is such an exception in the Netherlands and that’s it’s almost done reluctantly.
Well, not all regions have fully transferred to OVpay yet with their subscriptions. And as the OV-chipkaart technology doesn't support capping introduction of a cap may take some time.

GVB seemed to have quietly introduced a contactless day cap (at I think €1 over the pre-purchased day ticket price) last time I was in Amsterdam. Hard to find information about it online though
Information is found here: https://www.gvb.nl/max

You have to opt-in as well, it is not automatic.
Opting in applies to monthly and yearly caps, the daily caps I now of are in the base fare.
Probably that requirement is there as there are multiple options in some regions, so without opting in the system doesn't know what you want.

For example in Utrecht province one could either apply for the monthly or the yearly cap, with the latter being a bit cheaper (the monthly cap is € 100 while the yearly one is € 1000).
And there is also a DalVrij subscription which allows for unlimited off-peak travel, which costs € 30 and lowers the cap monthly cap to € 70.
 

Trainbike46

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Well, not all regions have fully transferred to OVpay yet with their subscriptions. And as the OV-chipkaart technology doesn't support capping introduction of a cap may take some time.


Information is found here: https://www.gvb.nl/max
It's an odd choice by GVB to have a daily cap of €10.50, but charge less than that for day tickets (see attached photo). Presumably, they want people to switch, so why is it more expensive?

Opting in applies to monthly and yearly caps, the daily caps I now of are in the base fare.
Probably that requirement is there as there are multiple options in some regions, so without opting in the system doesn't know what you want.
I wonder how all this will work with NS Flex, when that switches to the new system.
For example in Utrecht province one could either apply for the monthly or the yearly cap, with the latter being a bit cheaper (the monthly cap is € 100 while the yearly one is € 1000).
And there is also a DalVrij subscription which allows for unlimited off-peak travel, which costs € 30 and lowers the cap monthly cap to € 70.
Frankly, I do think the customer-facing communication around OVpay has been terrible, especially the switch in branding, and the way they've done the (ongoing) phased introduction so far, are not great.
 

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DanielB

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It's an odd choice by GVB to have a daily cap of €10.50, but charge less than that for day tickets (see attached photo). Presumably, they want people to switch, so why is it more expensive?
They don't charge less. Your screenshot shows prices in pounds and £ 9 happens to be exactly € 10,50 ;)
I wonder how all this will work with NS Flex, when that switches to the new system.
NS Flex is just invoicing the fares registred in the central system and caps are processed realtime. You'll already see the cap being applied as soon as the first time you check-out after reaching it.
That central system is used by all operators, for example you would also be able to travel by train using GVB Flex and then will receive invoices for train trips from GVB instead of NS.
 

Trainbike46

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They don't charge less. Your screenshot shows prices in pounds and £ 9 happens to be exactly € 10,50 ;)
Good catch! Though I'm surprised the GVB website would offer fares in GBP
NS Flex is just invoicing the fares registred in the central system and caps are processed realtime. You'll already see the cap being applied as soon as the first time you check-out after reaching it.
That central system is used by all operators, for example you would also be able to travel by train using GVB Flex and then will receive invoices for train trips from GVB instead of NS.
So you're saying daily capping already works on NS flex on the OV-chipkaart, on all operators that offer daily capping?

GVB flex explicitly states is a product for Bus, Tram, Metro only, not valid on trains:
With which transport companies?

With all tram, bus and metro companies in the Netherlands. The discount only applies to GVB.
And:
Where can you travel?

Throughout the Netherlands, with all trams, buses and metros. Easy Flex on the OV-chipkaart is not valid on the train.

Source: https://www.gvb.nl/en/travel-products/discount-products/easy-flex
 

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