Psychometric Assessment open to public

[AdminDriver]

CCL Training have released dates for members of the public hoping to take the train driver psychometic assessment.

Passing the assessment is the first step to take in starting a career as a Driver with any Train Operating Company.

Anyone who is interested can contact CCL on 01270 252 400

 

[Redviper]

Would be really interested in this, however does it still count as "2 shots and your out"?

Basically what I mean is - say you fail - do you only have one more chance should you take it as part of your training should you get offered a postion if one came up?

 

[GB]

Yes it counts as one of your two attempts. There is also no guarantee the TOC you apply for will except it and may well put you on it again themselfs.

 

[spurs4life]

This test would be accpted by TOCS its the same test once passed you can not do it again.I did mine at Doncaster in Feb which i paid for and even though ive got it no TOCS will even give me a interview.

 

[185]

Any idea of the cost?

I know EWS wanted a fortune a while back.

 

[GB]

This test would be accpted by TOCS its the same test once passed you can not do it again.I did mine at Doncaster in Feb which i paid for and even though ive got it no TOCS will even give me a interview.

There is no limit to how many times a person can take it and pass it. I know for a fact several TOCs/FOCs specify different testing requirements so if you have not done these they will not offer you employment untill you have passed them. The TOCs hold the key to recruitment and they are well within their right to make you sit them again if they feel it is necessary. I have even heard of one company requiring already qualified drivers to resit the tests before they get the job.

The fact that you have it and no one has given you an interview proves what Ive always said about doing the test privately in that at the end of it all there is still no guarantee of employment.

 

[spurs4life]

No once you have passed thats it you can not do it again end of story or until the certificate runs out, max is five years that the certificate lasts.The only exception is if you fail the mechanical comprehension you can do that part again if a TOC wants you too. If you do the test at Doncaster with DB Shencker it will cost £150.

 

[GB]

Where is it written you cannot do the tests again if you already hold a pass?

 

[spurs4life]

well for a start its all on a database thats says you have passed so you would tell a TOC ive passed.Why would you complete something you passed,the sameway when you do your driving exam you dont do it again every time you buy a new car!!

 

[A-driver]

It's down to each TOC if it'll be accepted or not. I can say with some certainty though that it won't really put you ahead of others like some may say. Recruiting trainee drivers costs enough-saving a couple of hundred on not doing the phsycs won't mean much to them and infact many won't give you a chance to declare a pass on their automated online application forms.

The tests are also not pass/fail. All scores are combined each test session and the pass mark is worked out through an average for that session. The assessment process is also not just about the tests themselves. The examiners will be watching out for how you behave, how you act around the other candidates, how friendly and polite you are (customer service etc), how you are dressed etc. Therefore if you sit them privately the TOC won't have monitored all That hence they may ask you to re do it.

I don't actually know of anyone on the job in my company or any of the ones we share mess rooms with who have done it privately-would be interested to see how many of those sitting it privately go on to get driver jobs.

perhaps I'm overly cynical but I see it as a bit of a con offering this. If a TOC recruits for off the street trainees they will have factored in all the HR costs including the assessment into the budget.

 

[spurs4life]

Sorry not sure when you say how you behave because if you fail the dot test then you fail does not matter how nice or customer friendly you are. Also the test is the same does not matter who you do it with the same as your road driving exam just because it was passed in London doesn't mean you need to take it again to drive in Leeds.

 

[A-driver]

I know that a fail is a fail but if there is not set pas mark for any test including the dots test. It is left to the TOC as it's not as simple to mark as that-the dots test is about how consistent you are etc.

When I sat the tests we had one guy who was tole he had got a very good score on the initial trainability test but because he had written his answers on the question paper, not the answer sheet they sent him home. They saw it that if he can't follow a simple instruction like 'answer on this sheet' then he will struggle with the training course and safety critical instructions.

What I'm saying is that TOCs want much more from a trainee driver than someone who can pass the tests. They want to see if you will fit in to the company etc before wasting time on interview. Obviously if you fail the tests then that overalls all but it is not un herd of for them to offer you other positions within the company after a fail.

I would just recommend caution to anyone who thinks that paying for these tests themselves will give them more chance of getting a job as a driver as it really won't. if a TOC near you advertises for trainees they will send you for the tests if they think you are suitable-not just take you on because you have paid for the tests yourself.

 

[spurs4life]

The testing is done by outside agencies who do not work for the TOCs and a pass is a pass does not matter who you have done it with and for instance and to start they just want you pass could not care about anything else.For instance ive got years of customer facing experience but i still struggle to get an interview and i would say at least i got off my bum to do the test and go anywhere with it.

 

[A-driver]

Not being argumentative but the testing is done internally by TOCs themselves. I worked for a TOCs HR department for 4 years before becoming a driver with a different company and when I was in HR I dealt with the operations side-so drivers. I wasn't a psychometric assessor but most TOCs have their own. They are not outside agencies.

You are also missing my point. A pass is a pass but that isn't all that they want. They couldnt care less if they have to pay for your test or not so yo really are not doing them any favours by paying for it yourself. If they have 11 people attending a testing centre for the day 1 more won't make much difference to them.

By paying a high amount of money to attempt the tests yourself you risk being ruled out for life (and being out of pocket for it aswell), it dosnt last forever so if no TOCs near you are recruiting during the length of the pass then it's again money down the drain and as I said before if a TOC wants a trainee then they will pay for the cost of the tests as it's part of the budget. From their point of view doing tests yourself can also come across as "I'm rich enough to pay for the tests so I can get advantage over all those who are not".

As I say I'd be interested in figures on this but the vast majority of drivers who came into the grade 'off the street' applied like everyone else to a TOC and did the tests with that company.

The tests are also such a small part in the recruitment process. They are simply the first and smallest hurdle. If you are not being successful in your applications for driving jobs perhaps you are not using the correct language. Many TOCs filter online applications before a human reads them and if there are not enough keywords (not specific rail terms but language such as safety, customer care, rules etc) then the computer says no straight away.

 

[spurs4life]

Ok i can see im batting my head against a brick wall in regards of paying for it myself. No im not rich far from it and i was a shunter for over 4 years so correct language is not a problem.

 

[A-driver]

Please don't think I attacking you personally as I'm not-this is just something that makes me a bit angry. It seems these companies are almost conning you into paying them for a fairly pointless test by making it seem that the job offers will come flooding in.

There can be hundreds of applications for a single vacancy and so it is very hard to get through and those who do are very lucky as much as anything. One thing which will also not help at the moment is that a number of freight drivers are being made redundant and ASLEF have agreements with a few TOCs to prioritise them when vacancies appear rather than get trainees. TOCs do like to play the safe card and it is not unknown for jobs to be advertised which don't exist-advertise for trainees incase the qualifieds fall through. Therefor it may not be anything you are doing wrong but just you are going for jobs that don't exist. It seems trainee jobs are more common in the south at the moment, mainly due to the resins I stated above.

 

[GB]

well for a start its all on a database thats says you have passed so you would tell a TOC ive passed.Why would you complete something you passed,the sameway when you do your driving exam you dont do it again every time you buy a new car!!

It is not written anywhere in the physcometric testing standards that a person is actively forbidden to sit the tests again if they already hold a pass.

The current trainee driver assessment process consists of a fast reaction computer test, concentration test, mechanical comprehension test, two trainability tests and a criteria based interview.

That is a quote from the DBS website regarding what tests they use. Note however that there is no mention of the extra tests some companies require...eg DFFT, rWce, rVce, SAFEPQ, SCATT etc etc.

 

[spurs4life]

Ok well right and wrong scatt is same as (just symbols not dots) concentration test. safepq is what you would do on a palm top before your manager interview. dfft is part of the test. The only two they dont do are rwce and rvce.So these test comply to train Driver with a Train or Freight Operating Company, fulfilling the requirements of the Railway Industry Standard 3751.

 

[GB]

Ok well right and wrong scatt is same as (just symbols not dots) concentration test.

The only thing that is the same is that they are both concentration tests. The tests themselfs are different.

safepq is what you would do on a palm top before your manager interview.

Depending on the company this is done on the assessment day

The only two they dont do are rwce and rvce.So these test comply to train Driver with a Train or Freight Operating Company, fulfilling the requirements of the Railway Industry Standard 3751.

The point is that the companies that require these extra tests will not offer someone a drivers postition untill that person has completed them, and I say this from someone who works in such a company.

The basic assessment done at donny may well meet the railway industry standard, the standard is the basic minimum requirement, that does not mean TOCs and FOCs cannot add to it for their own process.

 

[A-driver]

I don't see how this debate is still going on. The FACTS are that paying for test gets you no advantage whatsoever. If people on here were posting how they paid for tests thenselves and then had to fight off the TOCs as they offered them jobs or if I was in the minority as an off the street driver who didn't pay for them then I would accept and agree that it is worth it. But as I say, I know of no one in the industry who paid for them and the one person here who is arguing it is a good idea is also saying he can't even get an interview after doing the tests himself so I can't see how he is arguing that it was a good idea.

 

[E&W Lucas]

The tests are also such a small part in the recruitment process. They are simply the first and smallest hurdle. If you are not being successful in your applications for driving jobs perhaps you are not using the correct language. Many TOCs filter online applications before a human reads them and if there are not enough keywords (not specific rail terms but language such as safety, customer care, rules etc) then the computer says no straight away.

Unsurprisingly, you are spot on. until recently, I would have said that taking the tests privately would have given a candidate a significant leg up. I've had a trainee driver with me who had done them himself, as had others at that depot. However, with the use of automated recruitment, or the increasing involvement of HR types in the process (certainly the case at some toc's I'm familiar with), I think the advantage may be less than before.

Even if the TOC puts a candidate through the tests and they pass, they are most definitely not guaranteed a job. Plenty fail employer interview, and if there's two successful candidates for one job, they'll offer it to the one who scored highest throughout the process.

Every stage of the process is scored against certain competencies that they are looking for. Think communication, teamwork, flexible attitude, safety conscious, methodical, reliable, able to self manage, etc. If you're not getting an interview, review what you are putting on your application. There's been lists of the key competencies put on here before, so make sure that you are demonstrating all of them. Be honest with yourself. If you've not got the experience, work out how you could gain it, and re - apply when you have. Correct English and grammar is also important; one of the most important tasks a driver has to perform is report writing.

 

[strange6]

And if I was the TOC, I would want to put you through these tests myself so that I could assess your performance myself. I can see no benefit of paying privately for such a test

 

[E&W Lucas]

And if I was the TOC, I would want to put you through these tests myself so that I could assess your performance myself. I can see no benefit of paying privately for such a test

Unlike the OP, my experience has been that they are conducted by agencies, or by other TOC's under contract. It's a box ticking exercise, against a defined standard. There's plenty of time to asses the candidate, if they are invited for an employer interview.