Provisionally authorised for prosecution letter - short ticket

[Cricketer2000]

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering if you could help with this, I’m just looking for some advice/guidance.

I got caught for short ticket on southeastern train service from London Bridge to London Waterloo. I was under immense pressure with things going on in my personal life around that time.

it happened around 5-6 times in total. I must reiterate, I have no financial incentive to do so as my travel is fully reimbursed by my employer. It was a genuine mistake, which I owned up to when questioned by the southeastern revenue officer. All my other journeys spanning from the last 8 months are all correct fares apart from these short tickets which I’m still unable to comprehend why I did it. As mentioned, I was dealing with a lot of personal stress at the time.

I since received a letter from southeastern asking me to explain my side of the story and said this matter has been provisionally authorised for prosecution. I replied back explaining my mitigating circumstances, I focused primarily on the day I was caught, stressing how I couldn’t comprehend how this happened. I acknowledged my mistake and said that I am willing to be any fare differences/admin fees and plead for an out of court settlement.

Replying to my statement, they said that we will investigate into this matter and look into my Trainline history. As mentioned, I focussed primarily on the incident where I had been caught with a short ticket but didn’t mention in my letter about the other occasions. Although I explicitly mentioned this to the revenues officer at the time and showed them my Trainline history.

My question is, should I go back and mention to them in a further email about the other tickets or should I wait for their response first. Would this appear to them as if I’m hiding something from them, as this is most definitely not my intention. I want to and am willing to be as open and transparent as possible to settle this matter as soon as possible avoiding any prosecution/court hearing.

Has anyone been in this position before and what advice would you give? Over a span of 8-9 months all of my tickets are correct, it is just these handful of tickets which are short tickets. From personal experience, are they likely to settle this out of court, or would they escalate it further to court.

Lots of people have suggested to get solicitors involved to avoid prosecution. Is there any point in hiring a solicitor, considering how costly and expensive they are, I would like to avoid this route. However if need be can anyone recommend any good solicitors I can approach that won’t cost a fortune.

Many thanks

 

[Titfield]

IMHO some of your statements are contradictory and if repeated to a TOC would not find any favour and probably exacerbate the situation you are in. Therefore it is essential you do not say anything that further worsens your position.

It is virtually certain that when they research your account they will discover the other cases of short faring. I think therefore it would be best to come clean, say that on reviewing your trainline account you have noted that there were a number of occasions when you had also short fared. Then reiterate the points you hopefully made in the original email response you made. The format and points this forum normally suggest are (and thanks to @Hadders for this)

You write you a short, concise reply to them confirming the number of journeys you made and include the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you're offered a settlement SE will likely want you to pay the full Anytime Single fare for every journey (with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase) in addition to an admin fee, typically at least £150, to reflect their costs in dealing with the case. If you are offered a settlement you will need to be in a position to pay it in full within a few days - payment in instalments isn’t normally allowed. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you before you send it.

A solicitor is not necessary at this stage but if engaged (based on a recent case) would cost between £700 and £800. If you use the search facility at the top right of this page you will find some solicitors named in cases. I would probably only engage a solicitor if SE respond to your further email with court proceedings.

 

[jfollows]

If you look through other posts here in the same section you'll see plenty of similar stories and outcomes.
All the advice above is good.
In particular, I would advise not using phrases like "genuine mistake" in your correspondence, it sounds like you deliberately bought tickets to save money, it's better - if so - to own up to it and not obfuscate. The rail companies are used to this, and what they're looking for is reassurance that you won't be doing it again in future rather than excuses for what you've done in the past.

 

[Cricketer2000]

IMHO some of your statements are contradictory and if repeated to a TOC would not find any favour and probably exacerbate the situation you are in. Therefore it is essential you do not say anything that further worsens your position.

It is virtually certain that when they research your account they will discover the other cases of short faring. I think therefore it would be best to come clean, say that on reviewing your trainline account you have noted that there were a number of occasions when you had also short fared. Then reiterate the points you hopefully made in the original email response you made. The format and points this forum normally suggest are (and thanks to @Hadders for this)

You write you a short, concise reply to them confirming the number of journeys you made and include the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you're offered a settlement SE will likely want you to pay the full Anytime Single fare for every journey (with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase) in addition to an admin fee, typically at least £150, to reflect their costs in dealing with the case. If you are offered a settlement you will need to be in a position to pay it in full within a few days - payment in instalments isn’t normally allowed. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you before you send it.

A solicitor is not necessary at this stage but if engaged (based on a recent case) would cost between £700 and £800. If you use the search facility at the top right of this page you will find some solicitors named in cases. I would probably only engage a solicitor if SE respond to your further email with court proceedings.

Thank you so much for your response.

I have already sent my email response, to which Southeastern prosecutions team replied and said they would look at and review my Trainline travel history and would contact me once they have concluded their findings.

In this case, do you suggest should I reply to their email stating that there are other occasions this has occured on previously. Although, in my statement I did own up to the officer on duty at the time, and I showed them my trainline ticket history (which they reviewed briefly). On the email that I sent to them initially, I focused on that particular incident, rather than my general travel history, although in my statement to the revenue officer, I did admit that I have done this mistake before.

Having said this, do you suggest I wait for their investigation to conclude, then give my response, if they ask for one or should i preemptively send another email explaining the above, because this whole incident is causing a lot of stress and anxiety for me.

Many thanks.

 

[Titfield]

That is a difficult call but on balance imho you should come clean now and provide the full details in a new email.

The reason I say this is that I think they will find the other cases of short faring and by coming clean now puts you in a better light than coming clean later when they write to you having discovered those cases.

Sending a new email will also help reduce your anxiety as you are carrying out a positive action to put these matters to rights.

 

[Cricketer2000]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if you could kindly assist me on this matter.

It has been over three weeks coming up to a month since I responded to Southeastern’s email which stated we will be conducting an investigation.

I still haven’t heard anything from them…
Is this normal do people usually experience delays in hearing back?

I’m quite worried & it’s causing a lot of stress with this investigation still pending. Is there usually a timeframe in which they will respond?

 

[Titfield]

It can take any time up to 6 months (after which they are barred from laying papers before a court).

Your question is a very common one, some TOCS have a significant backlog of investigations and it is not uncommon for a response to take a considerable while to be sent.

The TOC of course may have asked a number of online retailers for details of bookings you may have made through them and will be awaiting their responses which further delays the TOC responding to you with the next stage of the process.

Unfortunately all you can do is sit and wait. I would not overly concern yourself with this delay but try and put it out of your mind. As far as we are able to judge most cases where the passenger engages with the TOC are resolved without having to go to court and all that entails.