Provisional prosecution with Soutern eastern railway for fair evasion

[YattyBatty]

A couple of weeks ago i was rushing to get my train in the morning, barriers were open so i went through. Purchased a ticket as i was getting off and was stopped by someone in St Pancreas International. Now she questioned why my ticket had not been scanned in from Stratford, and i told her at the time i had gone straight through trying to rush for my train. Now she stated that was impossible as they also had inspectors at that station. I panicked realizing i should have just told her which station i was coming from and letting her know it was an honest mistake, however she took my details as she started asking more questions i left as i realized if i stayed any longer i would be very late to work, at the time i thought if she was going to charge or fine me then get to the point but as she never did i left.

I received a letter to one of my previous address regarding this and the people held the letter but for some reason when i got there, there letter was no longer there. So i used my initiative to call Southern Eastern fines. I gave them my details so I knew it would be on file. after speaking to one of their colleagues they had informed me there was no fine and there was going to be a prosecution put into place, which they couldn't explain and didn't make sense to me.

After calling back again for the 3rd time to get my reference number to try and a appeal, i had discovered there was 2 references under my name.
The first reference after looking into it already had an appeal made 4 days before i even called, which wasn't by me, the dates, station, address, d.o.b nothing matched apart from the name. (I also have proof that i was at work, the time the person was stopped and a ticket for that date)

Now the second reference i tried to see if i could appeal however the reference number didn't work. I sent the Southern Eastern proof of my current addresses they said they would be sending me a follow up letter, however i do not want to wait until this has gone to far to do something about it. Can someone advise on what steps to take.

I am a monthly season ticket holder, the only reason i hadn't purchased my monthly pass for month of October is because i was expected to have a complex surgery on the 16th Oct, and wouldn't be travelling or going to work. the last couple of weeks have been quite difficult for me as i recently found out i am pregnant and all the stress of this has had me extremely anxious thinking i could potentially lose my job.

 

[John R]

How was it an honest mistake if you bought a ticket from Stratford, but had not travelled from that station?

It’s never a good look to walk away from revenue staff having been caught without a valid ticket, but provided you cooperate with them from here in, you should be able to get an out of court settlement, rather than a prosecution.

You can’t rush the process though. You are now in a queue of similarly caught people and will just have to wait until they contact you again. They will not welcome you chasing them at this stage.

When they do, post the letter here, redacting your personal details, and experts here will be able to help you further.

 

[WesternLancer]

A couple of weeks ago i was rushing to get my train in the morning, barriers were open so i went through. Purchased a ticket as i was getting off and was stopped by someone in St Pancreas International. Now she questioned why my ticket had not been scanned in from Stratford, and i told her at the time i had gone straight through trying to rush for my train. Now she stated that was impossible as they also had inspectors at that station. I panicked realizing i should have just told her which station i was coming from and letting her know it was an honest mistake, however she took my details as she started asking more questions i left as i realized if i stayed any longer i would be very late to work, at the time i thought if she was going to charge or fine me then get to the point but as she never did i left.

I received a letter to one of my previous address regarding this and the people held the letter but for some reason when i got there, there letter was no longer there. So i used my initiative to call Southern Eastern fines. I gave them my details so I knew it would be on file. after speaking to one of their colleagues they had informed me there was no fine and there was going to be a prosecution put into place, which they couldn't explain and didn't make sense to me.

After calling back again for the 3rd time to get my reference number to try and a appeal, i had discovered there was 2 references under my name.
The first reference after looking into it already had an appeal made 4 days before i even called, which wasn't by me, the dates, station, address, d.o.b nothing matched apart from the name. (I also have proof that i was at work, the time the person was stopped and a ticket for that date)

Now the second reference i tried to see if i could appeal however the reference number didn't work. I sent the Southern Eastern proof of my current addresses they said they would be sending me a follow up letter, however i do not want to wait until this has gone to far to do something about it. Can someone advise on what steps to take.

I am a monthly season ticket holder, the only reason i hadn't purchased my monthly pass for month of October is because i was expected to have a complex surgery on the 16th Oct, and wouldn't be travelling or going to work. the last couple of weeks have been quite difficult for me as i recently found out i am pregnant and all the stress of this has had me extremely anxious thinking i could potentially lose my job.

Hi - can you clarify a few things - I have numbers specific questions if you could answer them below

1) where your journey started and ended?

2) There are various operators at St Pancras as you know. Are you certain it was SE Trains staff that stopped and questioned you?

The other operators at St Pancras are Thameslink/ GTR and East Midlands Railway / EMR and potentially Transport for London. Depending on where you travelled from will give a clue as to what staff you are most likely to have encountered.

You can only Appeal what you might have been give if you were issued with a Penalty Fare (this can only be issued then and there, not sent to you afterwards)

3) - so were you given a Penalty Fare (£100 + the cost of the ticket, reduced to £50 if paid promptly) - I suspect you were not.

If your details were taken (name and address etc) - it is likely that you have been 'reported for investigation' because the staff member suspected deliberate fare evasion (tickets from Stratford will be common tactics of people evading fares by doing what is called 'short faring' - ie only paying for a ticket from the last stop before St Pancras, but having got on the train further away from London). The end game of those letters if they are not replied to is prosecution in court. That report for investigation usually results in the letter you mentioned which is vital to rely to to avoid prosecution. You can't 'appeal' but you can reply in order to ask them to settle the matter out of court if they are prepared to do so. My advice would be that this is what you should be seeking to do in order to avoid being taken to court, found guilty, and having a criminal record.

4) Despite not having located the letter do you now have reference numbers?

In general terms I would not advise ringing them to try and sort out what has happened (because things like the confusion you experienced when you tried to ring them tend to happen all too frequently)

5) When you rang them did you tell them your correct up to date postal address and ask they amend your records?

If I were you I would be e-mailing or posting them a letter (or both) now including
- your full details: old and new postal address / e-mail address / phone number
- quote any reference numbers you have also
- ask them if they have any outstanding cases applying to you as you are keen to resolve them and co-operate with the enquiries

The reason I would do this now is because of the potential problems with you getting post before, and what stage things have got to without you knowing for sure (eg the matter may be en route to court due to you failing to reply to a written letter with a written response for example)

I'm sure we can find letters on other threads with the e-mail or postal contact details for the railway companies if you can confirm it is SE Trains for certain, for you to use. You need to be contacting their revenue protection or persecutions team - NOT Customer Services.

If you post a draft of what you want to send to them up here we can check it for you to make sure the correct 'railway terminology' is used to help them understand what you are seeking to do.

Also be aware that if you have short fared before like this (when you didn't have a season ticket) they can check your online ticket buying records to look for possible evidence of that by interrogating your online account wherever you buy tickets from.

 

[YattyBatty]

How was it an honest mistake if you bought a ticket from Stratford, but had not travelled from that station?

It’s never a good look to walk away from revenue staff having been caught without a valid ticket, but provided you cooperate with them from here in, you should be able to get an out of court settlement, rather than a prosecution.

You can’t rush the process though. You are now in a queue of similarly caught people and will just have to wait until they contact you again. They will not welcome you chasing them at this stage.

When they do, post the letter here, redacting your personal details, and experts here will be able to help you further.

I was rushing when i tried to purchase the ticket and when typing in S Stratford was the first station that came up, I did not double check this but once i noticed it was too late. And

Hi - can you clarify a few things - I have numbers specific questions if you could answer them below

1) where your journey started and ended?

2) There are various operators at St Pancras as you know. Are you certain it was SE Trains staff that stopped and questioned you?

The other operators at St Pancras are Thameslink/ GTR and East Midlands Railway / EMR and potentially Transport for London. Depending on where you travelled from will give a clue as to what staff you are most likely to have encountered.

You can only Appeal what you might have been give if you were issued with a Penalty Fare (this can only be issued then and there, not sent to you afterwards)

3) - so were you given a Penalty Fare (£100 + the cost of the ticket, reduced to £50 if paid promptly)

If your details were taken (name and address etc) - it is likely that you have been 'reported for investigation' because the staff memebr suspected deliberate fare evasion (tickets from Stratford will be common tactics of people evading fares by doing what is called 'short faring' - ie only paying for a ticket from the last stop before St Pancras, but having got on the train further away from London. The end game of those letters if they are not replied to is prosecution in court. That report for investigation usually results in the letter you mentioned which is vital to rely to to avoid prosecution. You can't 'appeal' but you can reply in order to ask them to settle the matter out of court if they are prepared to do so.

4) Despite not having located the letter do you now have reference numbers?

In general terms I would not advise ringing them to try and sort out what has happened (because things like the confusion you experienced when you tried to ring them tend to happen all too frequently)

5) When you rang them did you tell them your correct up to date postal address and ask they amend your records?

If I were you I would be e-mailing or posting them a letter (or both) now including
- your full details: old and new postal address / e-mail address / phone number
- quote any reference numbers you have also
- ask them if they have any outstanding cases applying to you as you are keen to resolve them and co-operate with the enquiries

The reason I would do this now is because of the potential problems with you getting post before, and what stage things have got to without you knowing for sure (eg the matter may be en route to court due to you failing to reply to a written letter with a written response for example)

I'm sure we can find letters on other threads with the e-mail or postal contact details for the railway companies if you can confirm it is SE Trains for certain, for you to use. You need to be contacting their revenue protection or persecutions team - NOT Customer Services.

If you post a draft of what you want to send to them up here we can check it for you to make sure the correct 'railway terminology' is used to help them understand what you are seeking to do.

Also be aware that if you have short fared before like this (when you didn't have a season ticket) they can check your online ticket buying records to look for possible evidence of that by interrogating your online account wherever you buy tickets from.

My journey started from sittingbourne, and ended at kings cross.
this would have been with the southern eastern train but i am not 100% if they are the ones that approached me that day.
i was not given a penalty fare, which is what i was expecting, however i did walk away so this may be why.
Yes i have a reference number, and when i rang them gave them my updated address and sent an email of proof of address.

Please see below a draft of the response i would like to send



Dear Members of staff of Southern Eastern railway

I hope this email finds you well. i am writing to formally address the recent incident concerning my train ticket purchase on October 23rd at kings cross. I would like to provide more context regarding the circumstances surrounding this situation

The day in question i was in a rush, missed my initial train due to morning sickness and was in a panic to reach work on time as i was still in probations. Stressing during my journey as i got off i quickly tried to purchase a ticket. when your colleague stopped me, they noticed the ticket hadn't been scanned at my first destination. where i made a terrible error of judgement was i said the first thing that came to mind to get out of the situation as i was already anxious not realizing the purchase ticket was from Stratford.

i sincerely apologies for this mistake as i am a monthly season ticket holder and only reason i hadn't purchased a ticket that month was due to an extensive operation that was planned for the week prior (16th Oct) and i wouldn't need to travel.

Since this incident i have been quite anxious and have been told by my doctor my blood pressure has raised, which is not good during your first trimester.

I am ready to compensate or rectify any administrative costs and fares incurred during this incident. It would be much appreciated if this could be settled out of court as this is currently affecting my mental health.

There are no excuses for my behaviour and i can ensure that tis will never happen again, no matter the personal circumstances.

 

[island]

2) There are various operators at St Pancras as you know. Are you certain it was SE Trains staff that stopped and questioned you?

The other operators at St Pancras are Thameslink/ GTR and East Midlands Railway / EMR and potentially Transport for London. Depending on where you travelled from will give a clue as to what staff you are most likely to have encountered.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that if someone bought a short fare from Stratford they were travelling on, and dealing with, Southeastern. Only SE staff would be on the gateline for the SE platforms at STP.

 

[YattyBatty]

How was it an honest mistake if you bought a ticket from Stratford, but had not travelled from that station?

It’s never a good look to walk away from revenue staff having been caught without a valid ticket, but provided you cooperate with them from here in, you should be able to get an out of court settlement, rather than a prosecution.

You can’t rush the process though. You are now in a queue of similarly caught people and will just have to wait until they contact you again. They will not welcome you chasing them at this stage.

When they do, post the letter here, redacting your personal details, and experts here will be able to help you further.

The reason i walked away is because i was already running late to work. I thought at the time if she was going to fine me she could just send via post however i can see now that is not the case.

 

[AlterEgo]

The reason i walked away is because i was already running late to work. I thought at the time if she was going to fine me she could just send via post however i can see now that is not the case.

How did the paperwork come to an old address you no longer live at? Why did you give them this address?

 

[WesternLancer]

I was rushing when i tried to purchase the ticket and when typing in S Stratford was the first station that came up, I did not double check this but once i noticed it was too late. And

My journey started from sittingbourne, and ended at kings cross.
this would have been with the southern eastern train but i am not 100% if they are the ones that approached me that day.
i was not given a penalty fare, which is what i was expecting, however i did walk away so this may be why.
Yes i have a reference number, and when i rang them gave them my updated address and sent an email of proof of address.

Please see below a draft of the response i would like to send



Dear Members of staff of Southern Eastern railway

I hope this email finds you well. i am writing to formally address the recent incident concerning my train ticket purchase on October 23rd at kings cross. I would like to provide more context regarding the circumstances surrounding this situation

The day in question i was in a rush, missed my initial train due to morning sickness and was in a panic to reach work on time as i was still in probations. Stressing during my journey as i got off i quickly tried to purchase a ticket. when your colleague stopped me, they noticed the ticket hadn't been scanned at my first destination. where i made a terrible error of judgement was i said the first thing that came to mind to get out of the situation as i was already anxious not realizing the purchase ticket was from Stratford.

i sincerely apologies for this mistake as i am a monthly season ticket holder and only reason i hadn't purchased a ticket that month was due to an extensive operation that was planned for the week prior (16th Oct) and i wouldn't need to travel.

Since this incident i have been quite anxious and have been told by my doctor my blood pressure has raised, which is not good during your first trimester.

I am ready to compensate or rectify any administrative costs and fares incurred during this incident. It would be much appreciated if this could be settled out of court as this is currently affecting my mental health.

There are no excuses for my behaviour and i can ensure that tis will never happen again, no matter the personal circumstances.

so was this at Kings Cross Station or St Pancras International Station?

They are different stations - you need to think carefully and get this right - otherwise you are going to get unhelpful / incorrect advice.

was it at the barrier lone when you tried to get off from the train journey that started at Sittingbourne?

 

[YattyBatty]

How did the paperwork come to an old address you no longer live at? Why did you give them this address?

they asked for ID and i didn't have my purse on me so i showed her a picture of my Provisional license which has my mums address, i usually don't have issues getting my letters from her address.

 

[AlterEgo]

they asked for ID and i didn't have my purse on me so i showed her a picture of my Provisional license which has my mums address, i usually don't have issues getting my letters from her address.

OK so you need to get that changed as well - your driving licence by law has to show your current address.

Did you inform Southeastern of the correct address when you called them? Responding to their correspondence is going to be very important.

 

[YattyBatty]

so was this at Kings Cross Station or St Pancras International Station?

They are different stations - you need to think carefully and get this right - otherwise you are going to get unhelpful / incorrect advice.

was it at the barrier lone when you tried to get off from the train journey that started at Sittingbourne?

It was St pancreas international station, there was people standing just before the barriers.
i would have gone to kings cross after to the underground to get to work.

i am not too sure about your second question but i boarded from sittingbourne station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Nov 2024 ==

OK so you need to get that changed as well - your driving licence by law has to show your current address.

Did you inform Southeastern of the correct address when you called them? Responding to their correspondence is going to be very important.

It's my provisional license and understood.

I did inform them of the correct address when i called yesterday and they asked for a proof of my address which i provided by email.

 

[John R]

The reason i walked away is because i was already running late to work. I thought at the time if she was going to fine me she could just send via post however i can see now that is not the case.

Ironically, it she had been minded to on the spot “fine” you, which actually would have been by a Penalty Fare, you would be in much less trouble than you are now, and it would have cost you less in the long run.

Although that is unlikely, since clear cases of fraudulent travel (short faring in your case) are not dealt with by Penalty Fares, but a referral for further investigation.

 

[WesternLancer]

So I would suggest amends to your draft as below - hope these are clear

Please see below a draft of the response i would like to send


Dear Members of staff of Southern Eastern railway

I hope this email finds you well. i am writing to formally address the recent incident concerning my train ticket purchase on October 23rd at kings cross. I would like to provide more context regarding the circumstances surrounding this situation

The day in question i was in a rush, missed my initial train due to morning sickness and was in a panic to reach work on time as i was still in probations. Stressing during my journey as i got off i quickly tried to purchase a ticket. when your colleague stopped me, they noticed the ticket hadn't been scanned at my first destination. where i made a terrible error of judgement was i said the first thing that came to mind to get out of the situation as i was already anxious not realizing the purchase ticket was from Stratford.

i sincerely apologies for this mistake as i am a monthly season ticket holder and only reason i hadn't purchased a ticket that month was due to an extensive operation that was planned for the week prior (16th Oct) and i wouldn't need to travel.

Since this incident i have been quite anxious and have been told by my doctor my blood pressure has raised, which is not good during your first trimester.

I am ready to compensate or rectify any administrative costs and fares incurred during this incident. It would be much appreciated if this could be settled out of court as this is currently affecting my mental health.

There are no excuses for my behaviour and i can ensure that tis will never happen again, no matter the personal circumstances.

Assuming you were sent something in the post to the address you gave as per your provisional driving license (your mum's address) but this has now got lost - you should send this by e-mail and also by tracked hard copy post from a post office so that you know it gets received by SE Trains.


Dear Members of staff of Southern Eastern railway

Your Reference Number(s):

I am writing this because I believe post you have sent to me at my former address has not been received by me.

My previous address was: XYZ

My current up to date postal address and contact details are:

My previous address was taken when I was stopped and questioned about my ticket on October 23rd 2024 at St Pancras International, as my ID was out of date. I am anxious to resolve any outstanding matter and would be grateful if you could resend any previous or new correspondence to me by post to my new address or to me by e-mail.

I hope this email finds you well. i I am writing to formally address the recent incident concerning my train ticket purchase on October 23rd at St Pancras International kings cross. I would like to provide more context regarding the circumstances surrounding this situation

The day in question i I was in a rush, missed my initial train due to morning sickness and was in a panic to reach work on time. as i was still in probations. Stressing during my journey as i got off i I quickly tried to purchase a ticket. when your colleague stopped me, they noticed the ticket hadn't been scanned at the station detailed on my ticket my first destination. where I made a terrible error of judgement and iwas said the first thing that came to mind to get out of the situation as i I was already anxious not realizing the purchase ticket was from Stratford.

i I sincerely apologies apologise for this mistake as I usually hold a monthly season ticket holder and only reason I i hadn't had not purchased a season ticket that month was due to an extensive medical operation that was planned for the week prior (16th Oct) and I would not dn't need to travel.

Since this incident I have been quite anxious and have been told by my doctor my blood pressure has raised, which is not good during your first trimester.

I am ready to compensate or rectify any administrative costs and fares incurred during this incident. It would be much appreciated if you would kindly consider if this could be settled out of court. as this is currently affecting my mental health.

There are no excuses for my behaviour and I can assure you ensure that this tis will never happen again, no matter the personal circumstances.

Yours faithfully


other threads from SE Trains in 2023 have a postal address of:

SE Trains Prosecutions
PO Box 601
Ashford
TN23 9XZ

and an e-mail address of:

Prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk

use both

 

[YattyBatty]

Thank you,

So I would suggest amends to your draft as below - hope these are clear



Assuming you were sent something in the post to the address you gave as per your provisional driving license (your mum's address) but this has now got lost - you should send this by e-mail and also by tracked hard copy post from a post office so that you know it gets received by SE Trains.


Dear Members of staff of Southern Eastern railway

Your Reference Number(s):

I am writing this because I believe post you have sent to me at my former address has not been received by me.

My previous address was: XYZ

My current up to date postal address and contact details are:

My previous address was taken when I was stopped and questioned about my ticket on October 23rd 2024 at St Pancras International, as my ID was out of date. I am anxious to resolve any outstanding matter and would be grateful if you could resend any previous or new correspondence to me by post to my new address or to me by e-mail.

I hope this email finds you well. i I am writing to formally address the recent incident concerning my train ticket purchase on October 23rd at St Pancras International kings cross. I would like to provide more context regarding the circumstances surrounding this situation

The day in question i I was in a rush, missed my initial train due to morning sickness and was in a panic to reach work on time. as i was still in probations. Stressing during my journey as i got off i I quickly tried to purchase a ticket. when your colleague stopped me, they noticed the ticket hadn't been scanned at the station detailed on my ticket my first destination. where I made a terrible error of judgement and iwas said the first thing that came to mind to get out of the situation as i I was already anxious not realizing the purchase ticket was from Stratford.

i I sincerely apologies apologise for this mistake as I usually hold a monthly season ticket holder and only reason I i hadn't had not purchased a season ticket that month was due to an extensive medical operation that was planned for the week prior (16th Oct) and I would not dn't need to travel.

Since this incident I have been quite anxious and have been told by my doctor my blood pressure has raised, which is not good during your first trimester.

I am ready to compensate or rectify any administrative costs and fares incurred during this incident. It would be much appreciated if you would kindly consider if this could be settled out of court. as this is currently affecting my mental health.

There are no excuses for my behaviour and I can assure you ensure that this tis will never happen again, no matter the personal circumstances.

Yours faithfully


other threads from SE Trains in 2023 have a postal address of:

SE Trains Prosecutions
PO Box 601
Ashford
TN23 9XZ

and an e-mail address of:

Prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk

use both

Thank you so much for this, i really hope it does help as the more i read into this the more anxious i get. If i get convicted i will lose my job and the potential to work. over such a silly thing. The anxiety alone has taught me a valuable lesson.

 

[John R]

I was rushing when i tried to purchase the ticket and when typing in S Stratford was the first station that came up, I did not double check this but once i noticed it was too late.

when your colleague stopped me, they noticed the ticket hadn't been scanned at my first destination. where i made a terrible error of judgement was i said the first thing that came to mind to get out of the situation as i was already anxious not realizing the purchase ticket was from Stratford.

One of things that we always impress on posters is the need to be completely honest if you want to get the investigator on side and offer you a settlement.

I'm afraid it's too much of a coincidence that the station that you say happened to come up and that conveniently you didn't notice was Stratford, which will be for that route the short-farers go to station to use, being the last stop before St Pancras. So the chances of them believing you that it was a genuine mistake will be, in my view, very low. Don't forget they know all the tricks in the book, and will probably take one look at it, and think "Yeah, nice try, another Stratford short-farer", and conclude that you are not being honest with them.

So I wouldn't use the excuse of saying you didn't realise the purchase ticket was from Stratford if I were you. Just apologise for not having a ticket from your starting point and leave it at that. You don't need to explain why you said Stratford - the person who stopped you is used to people starting off by saying that they have come from the short fare station - well you would. wouldn't you, until it's proved that you couldn't have done.

 

[island]

I was rushing when i tried to purchase the ticket and when typing in S Stratford was the first station that came up, I did not double check this but once i noticed it was too late.

I've just gone on the Southeastern app and entered S as a station. Nothing comes up. You have to enter 3 letters before a station does.

I strongly suggest you do not include this as an excuse.

 

[WesternLancer]

One of things that we always impress on posters is the need to be completely honest if you want to get the investigator on side and offer you a settlement.

I'm afraid it's too much of a coincidence that the station that you say happened to come up and that conveniently you didn't notice was Stratford, which will be for that route the short-farers go to station to use, being the last stop before St Pancras. So the chances of them believing you that it was a genuine mistake will be, in my view, very low. Don't forget they know all the tricks in the book, and will probably take one look at it, and think "Yeah, nice try, another Stratford short-farer", and conclude that you are not being honest with them.

So I wouldn't use the excuse of saying you didn't realise the purchase ticket was from Stratford if I were you. Just apologise for not having a ticket from your starting point and leave it at that. You don't need to explain why you said Stratford - the person who stopped you is used to people starting off by saying that they have come from the short fare station - well you would. wouldn't you, until it's proved that you couldn't have done.

This is good advice imho.

 

[YattyBatty]

So i received an email today saying the case is being reviewed and they will contact via post once they conclude their investigation. Is this bad news?

 

[John R]

So i received an email today saying the case is being reviewed and they will contact via post once they conclude their investigation. Is this bad news?

Not really - it’s par for the course. You’ll now be in a queue of cases, and they will no doubt be looking for any previous instances that they can identify.

At least they know how to contact you now.

 

[WesternLancer]

So i received an email today saying the case is being reviewed and they will contact via post once they conclude their investigation. Is this bad news?

No it's good news - you have proof they received your communication and you have opened your dialogue with them, and now you just have to wait for them to respond fully in due course. That's going to be in hard copy post so keep an eye out for that.

 

[YattyBatty]

So i received a letter from the prosecution team yesterday, I'm assuming this is the first letter i was meant to receive at my previous address.

To summarize it says i gave my details and was questioned by a member of southern eastern staff in regards to an incident. The matter has been provisionally authorized for prosecution. They invite me to respond with any comments etc.

Is it worth me sending my initial email again to say I would like to deal with this outside of court?

 

[John R]

So i received a letter from the prosecution team yesterday, I'm assuming this is the first letter i was meant to receive at my previous address.

To summarize it says i gave my details and was questioned by a member of southern eastern staff in regards to an incident. The matter has been provisionally authorized for prosecution. They invite me to respond with any comments etc.

Is it worth me sending my initial email again to say I would like to deal with this outside of court?

Was it a letter (wasn't aware there were Sunday deliveries) or an email? You should respond in the way the letter asks you to, ie only use email if they say you can.

Things appear to have got very confused here (and before you complain, remember this is partly your making for both walking away and not having an up to date driving license), but I think it might be worth sending the initial response again, and putting a note at the bottom to explain why it is being resent). You should make sure that it has the correct reference number and also the date of their letter (ie "Further to your letter of...").

 

[YattyBatty]

It was a letter. Unless it was delivered Saturday I only noticed it yesterday. I had sent them a letter and email asking for the initial letter so I knew what the charges were against me.
In the letter it does state that you can respond via email. I don't really want to go into details regarding the incident seeing as they already have me on body cam.
Just trying to figure out how to word it so no further actions need to take place.

 

[John R]

Rereading the thread again, I don't think we ever saw the email you sent, and in particular whether it rowed back on the "it was a mistake" messaging. You might like to post what you put, and then we can see whether it needs any changes.

Unfortunately we've noticed Southeastern have appeared to become more difficult to settle out of court recently, (and indeed there is a thread debating why that might be on this board). So it's imperative that the wording is as good as it can be if you are to have the best chance of getting a settlement offer.

 

[YattyBatty]

Please see initial email as follows:

Dear Southern eastern team,

I have addressed a letter to you but thought it would be appropriate to send an email. I am writing to request that any correspondence related to my ticket incident on *set date* at St pancras international be resent to my current address as i have not received any previous communications sent to my former address.
*inserts previous and current address*
I would like to ensure that i am fully informed about any outstanding matters related to this incident.

I understand that there may be considerations regarding prosecution and i want to express my sincere desire to resolve this situation amicably. i understand the importance of adhering to fare regulations and am committed to ensuring that all future travel is compliant.

I value the services provided by southern eastern railway. I would like to request the opportunity to settle this matter out of court. i believe an amicable resolution would be in best interest of both parties and would alleviate any further stress related to this incident.

please et me know how we an proceed to reach a resolution. i am open to discussing any necessary steps to address this matter appropriately.

yours sincerely....

 

[John R]

Reading this I think you need to start again. For example:-

i believe an amicable resolution would be in best interest of both parties and would alleviate any further stress related to this incident.

is not at all appropriate. It's up to them to decide whether or not it's in their best interest, and they won't care about your stress levels. Indeed, they may think it appropriate that someone fare dodging has to put up with a bit of stress when caught.

If you search this board you'll see that @Hadders often sets out the way to set out a letter, but briefly it involves:-

Apologising sincerely for not having a valid ticket for your journey, without saying it was accidental - they won't believe you
Promising not to do it again - say how you will do that (ie always buy before boarding)
Asking very nicely if they would consider an out of court settlement

If you post your draft here then we can take a look for you.

 

[30907]

Two small points to add:
1. In your apologetic letter you can refer to the fact that you have normally held a monthly season and intend to resume this once you are back at work (or whatever is correct).
2. You mention that there is a second case reference which relates to someone with your surname. You need to keep an eye out for any suggestion that the person was you - but definitely don't comment unless that occurs

 

[YattyBatty]

Reading this I think you need to start again. For example:-



is not at all appropriate. It's up to them to decide whether or not it's in their best interest, and they won't care about your stress levels. Indeed, they may think it appropriate that someone fare dodging has to put up with a bit of stress when caught.

If you search this board you'll see that @Hadders often sets out the way to set out a letter, but briefly it involves:-

Apologising sincerely for not having a valid ticket for your journey, without saying it was accidental - they won't believe you
Promising not to do it again - say how you will do that (ie always buy before boarding)
Asking very nicely if they would consider an out of court settlement

If you post your draft here then we can take a look for you.

Please let me know if i should add or remove anything from this response.


Dear Southern eastern team,

I am writing in response to your provisional prosecution notice regarding the incident on *set date* *set station* I appreciate the opportunity to provide comment.

I would first like to start with a sincere apology for wasting the time of your team. there are no excuses for my action on *set date* I am usually a monthly ticket holder however last month due to unforeseen circumstances i did not purchase a season ticket as my usual day to day routine was different and this is what brought me to your team member on that set date.

I have ensured my rail card is up to date and that i have a reminder on my phone each month for when my season ticket needs to be purchased.

I am wiling to reimburse the ticket at hand on the *set date* and any outstanding admin fees that have incurred since this incident. I understand the severity of this situation and respectfully ask if this situation could be handled outside of court.

Thank you for your attention to this matter....

 

[John R]

Don't say "I am willing to", as it's not up to you what you are willing to pay. Ask very nicely eg "I would be very grateful if..." etc.

The railcard appears to be a red herring, unless you mean by that your season ticket, in which case say so. And you're somewhat ambiguous as to what the infringement was - you need to apologise for travelling without a valid ticket, and buying one from a station nearer than where you travelled from approaching the barriers.

 

[notmyrealname]

I know this is picky but is the name of the TOC Southeastern?