Prospects for new railway employees

[sleeperguy]

Hello, I'm after some advice.

Objectively, would you say now is a good time to join the railway as a driver?

I'm due to start as a trainee driver this year. i'd be leaving a well paid career in engineering to do so, I've also got my first child on the way this year.

However I've been seeing an increasing sense that all is not well at the moment, reading articles like the ones below paint a picture thay trouble may be on the horizon.

I've a feeling we are not in Kansas anymore | ASLEF

Mick's column - January 2022

aslef.org.uk

Unions plan for national rail strike as job cuts loom

‘Attacks on pay and pensions’ also expected after Department for Transport tells industry to find savings of 10%

www.google.com

what's the general mood amongst drivers and staff on the railway at the moment? Are train drivers jobs still safe? Are their pensions safe? Can members forsee on going industrial action?

information on this kind of thing is quite limited for outsiders, so I hope this sparks a useful discussion on the subject.

Thanks.

 

[DMckduck]

Hello, I'm after some advice.

Objectively, would you say now is a good time to join the railway as a driver?

I'm due to start as a trainee driver this year. i'd be leaving a well paid career in engineering to do so, I've also got my first child on the way this year.

However I've been seeing an increasing sense that all is not well at the moment, reading articles like the ones below paint a picture thay trouble may be on the horizon.

I've a feeling we are not in Kansas anymore | ASLEF

Mick's column - January 2022

aslef.org.uk

Unions plan for national rail strike as job cuts loom

‘Attacks on pay and pensions’ also expected after Department for Transport tells industry to find savings of 10%

www.google.com

what's the general mood amongst drivers and staff on the railway at the moment? Are train drivers jobs still safe? Are their pensions safe? Can members forsee on going industrial action?

information on this kind of thing is quite limited for outsiders, so I hope this sparks a useful discussion on the subject.

Thanks.

The railway still relies on overtime and even did in the height of the pandemic to keep the service running, with drivers at my TOC at the top of the free day count still getting free day work. Driverless trains are centuries if not a whole lifetime away considering how aged some of the equipment.

Now like pre pandemic is a good time to be going driving I wouldn’t worry at all and just focus on your course and training

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Hello, I'm after some advice.

Objectively, would you say now is a good time to join the railway as a driver?

I'm due to start as a trainee driver this year. i'd be leaving a well paid career in engineering to do so, I've also got my first child on the way this year.

However I've been seeing an increasing sense that all is not well at the moment, reading articles like the ones below paint a picture thay trouble may be on the horizon.

I've a feeling we are not in Kansas anymore | ASLEF

Mick's column - January 2022

aslef.org.uk

Unions plan for national rail strike as job cuts loom

‘Attacks on pay and pensions’ also expected after Department for Transport tells industry to find savings of 10%

www.google.com

what's the general mood amongst drivers and staff on the railway at the moment? Are train drivers jobs still safe? Are their pensions safe? Can members forsee on going industrial action?

information on this kind of thing is quite limited for outsiders, so I hope this sparks a useful discussion on the subject.

Thanks.

Also add into the mix the amount of current drivers who are approaching retirement age, some companies have more than others

 

[sleeperguy]

Thanks both for the replies. I'm happy that the role of drives are safe. I suppose i'm more concerned with how the operators are planning on acheiveing the 10% cost saving the DFT/government are asking for.

Do you think that drivers and other staff T&Cs/pensions are at risk?

UK railways are heading into a perfect storm. Now is the time to nationalise them | Christian Wolmar

These services are an essential part of the nation’s fabric, but still ministers fixate on cutting costs, says transport writer Christian Wolmar

www.theguardian.com

Articles such as this one suggest the unions are preparing industrial action to fight the planned cuts.

 

[AgentGemini]

Blunt answer: drivers are safe and will continue to be so. Everyone else will be ****ed and superbly at their cost.

 

[MichaelAMW]

I would have thought that if employees work with their company when change is needed, and can't be avoided, they can influence the future to be more like they want and less a result of imposition from above.

 

[Stigy]

Thanks both for the replies. I'm happy that the role of drives are safe. I suppose i'm more concerned with how the operators are planning on acheiveing the 10% cost saving the DFT/government are asking for.

Do you think that drivers and other staff T&Cs/pensions are at risk?

UK railways are heading into a perfect storm. Now is the time to nationalise them | Christian Wolmar

These services are an essential part of the nation’s fabric, but still ministers fixate on cutting costs, says transport writer Christian Wolmar

www.theguardian.com

Articles such as this one suggest the unions are preparing industrial action to fight the planned cuts.

I’d imagine a hell of a lot of Government saving can and will be achieved through natural wastage (retirement/resignation/staff from other grades taking voluntary severance etc).

The railway will need to run even with reduced services, and this will tally up with any future establishment reductions. The fact that TOCs/FOCs are still very much actively seeking new trainees is positive.

 

[43066]

what's the general mood amongst drivers and staff on the railway at the moment? Are train drivers jobs still safe? Are their pensions safe? Can members forsee on going industrial action?

The job is “safe” in the sense you’re highly unlikely to be made redundant. In fact there are nowhere near enough of us to run the basic service and, even with substantial timetable cuts, a reduction in work could be absorbed by simply offering less overtime as was seen over the last two years. I’d be a lot more worried about losing the job through having operational incidents as does happen to some, often relatively soon after passing out.

Ts and Cs are more of a concern then job security longer term, albeit that could also be an argument to joining up now as (for example) future pension reform might mean the current package is unavailable to new joiners in future.

Blunt answer: drivers are safe and will continue to be so. Everyone else will be ****ed and superbly at their cost.

There is sadly some truth in this comment. The driver grade has often (albeit unintentionally) benefited at the expense of others - eg where DOO is brought in drivers can expect a pay rise to take on more responsibilities.

Overall I’d have no hesitation in recommending the driving grade to a new joiner with 30+ years left. I’d have more reservations about joining as a guard, and a lot more about recommending working in a ticket office.

 

[16.19]

A very safe and rewarding career.


You won’t regret joining. Good luck!

 

[Horizon22]

As others have said, many TOCs have shortages of drivers and rely on overtime already as it is. There's certainly a churn of drivers too at multiple places as many who joined in and around the time of privatisation are now considering retirement.

Things like reductions in diagrams will probably just result in less overtime and more opportunities for aspects such as route learning etc. If you have an offer its a fantastic opportunity, so best of luck to you. Aspects such as DOO may become more common, but things like automated / driverless trains are decades away at the very earliest. The only risk might be issues with T&Cs being less generous as costs start to bite, but they'll still be much better than in other industries.

Other roles might not be so safe, but you'd be fine.

 

[Rich.16]

As a new starter in Feb as a conductor reading theses comments does get me a little worried about how safe the job it.

Iv waiting since 2019 from applying to getting a start date and now reading theses and also watching and reading the links does make me think what lies ahead for the role.

Hopefully anything drastic will be a few years away yet but you never really know what's going to happen.

 

[Towers]

As a new starter in Feb as a conductor reading theses comments does get me a little worried about how safe the job it.

Iv waiting since 2019 from applying to getting a start date and now reading theses and also watching and reading the links does make me think what lies ahead for the role.

Hopefully anything drastic will be a few years away yet but you never really know what's going to happen.

I don't think we'll see guards out of jobs, the issue might be extension of DOO (or indeed DCO), but there will continue to be a need for staff to work on board, whether that be in safety critical roles or in a more customer focussed way. Many (myself included) fully expected Southern's conductors to be down the road after a year or two of the OBS nonsense*, but they are still gainfully employed and, as far as I'm aware, even new recruits are paid the same former conductor wage.

Don't be too worried!

*in case that's a complete mystery to you; Southern went almost full-DOO a few years back at the DfT's behest, massive long running dispute & strikes but it came in anyway. Conductors lost safety roles but were retained as 'On Board Supervisor' grade, involving revenue and customer assistance. It's very far from ideal in lot of ways, but ultimately they still have a job!

 

[the sniper]

Can members forsee on going industrial action?

It's always a possibility. I would be very surprised if there isn't any in the next five year.

Do you think that drivers and other staff T&Cs/pensions are at risk?

Personally, I'd be highly surprised if the pensions aren't messed with to some extent. At the very least, the normal retirement age will go back again. For many it has gone back from 60 to 62 in the last decade or so, with very little fanfare. But I doubt it'll change monumentally, particularly for people already in. But that result may need to be fought for.

 

[Rich.16]

I don't think we'll see guards out of jobs, the issue might be extension of DOO (or indeed DCO), but there will continue to be a need for staff to work on board, whether that be in safety critical roles or in a more customer focussed way. Many (myself included) fully expected Southern's conductors to be down the road after a year or two of the OBS nonsense*, but they are still gainfully employed and, as far as I'm aware, even new recruits are paid the same former conductor wage.

Don't be too worried!

*in case that's a complete mystery to you; Southern went almost full-DOO a few years back at the DfT's behest, massive long running dispute & strikes but it came in anyway. Conductors lost safety roles but were retained as 'On Board Supervisor' grade, involving revenue and customer assistance. It's very far from ideal in lot of ways, but ultimately they still have a job!

Thank you for this information.

Iv just left being a bus driver for this career so I'm looking forward to the challenge that will come with the role.

I'm still relatively young ( feel alot older haha ) but hoping this job will take be quite some way to retirement.

At least everyone has kept there jobs at swr as that's the main thing. Noone every wants to loose that.

I will still go full steam ahead into my new role and make it as best as I can and just ride out what comes up.

 

[Towers]

Thank you for this information.

Iv just left being a bus driver for this career so I'm looking forward to the challenge that will come with the role.

I'm still relatively young ( feel alot older haha ) but hoping this job will take be quite some way to retirement.

At least everyone has kept there jobs at swr as that's the main thing. Noone every wants to loose that.

I will still go full steam ahead into my new role and make it as best as I can and just ride out what comes up.

Ah! I miss bus driving, but the pay and conditions are oceans apart; you've made a good move! And of course with a PCV in your pocket that door is always open should you ever need it.

 

[Termy]

At least everyone has kept there jobs at swr as that's the main thing. Noone every wants to loose that.

That, and SWR have ramped up their recruitment for Metro and Commercial guards the last month or so, quite heavily from what I am to believe! I think if I were in your position (which is a little bit disingenuous of me to say, because hopefully if all goes well my Metro Guard course will be starting in March, har har har...) I'd be very happy to have made the cut, and excited for what the next few months entails. Congratulations on your job.

 

[dk1]

Go for it, you certainly won’t regret it. I’ve trained several & especially those joining from such as the police simply cannot believe our pay, terms & conditions compared to what they have had before. Overtime is always there if you want it but with Sundays many find they don’t want or need to work any free days so that’s two days guaranteed off every week.

 

[sleeperguy]

Thanks everyone for the input! We're definitely living in strange times but from the replies here and speaking to other people it does still seem like it's worth making the jump.

 

[Starmill]

Regarding pensions, it's worth noting that it's unlawful for an employer to devalue your rights arising from any existing contributions just to save money. George Osborne tried that one and lost, right the way through to the Supreme Court.

What could happen is one of two things: firstly, your rights under the section of the pension you're entitled to are changed as a result of the scheme's deficit which cannot be made good by the employer - this is fairly complex and depends on the strength of the employer covenant. Secondly, the scheme may be closed to new contributions.

It would be very surprising if no changes were made at all to pensions. But they probably won't just try to reduce anyone overnight down to the minimum permitted employer contribution of 3%. Bear in mind that there are very few non-railway employers who offer defined benefit pensions to new starters. As it is so unlikely that you'll find a better deal on a pension anywhere else anyway, you probably would be well advised to accept the risk of changes and still go for it if possible. Once you've already made a contribution to the railway pension scheme, you can have quite strong confidence that you will be entitled to the commensurate benefits.

Regarding industrial action, it's unlikely that anywhere will be left unaffected by any, up to and including strikes. Maybe the light railways will get off without any, but presumably you're not applying to one of those.

 

[john_york]

Thanks everyone for the input! We're definitely living in strange times but from the replies here and speaking to other people it does still seem like it's worth making the jump.

If your heads not init don't go for it.

Stay safe