Prosecution

[rbo]

Hi I need some help and advice please.

I stupidly bought a child’s ticket from plumbstead to Waterloo east and got caught. The railway staff used her bodyworn cam to record our conversation. I purchased the ticket through Trainline through a guest check out as I don’t have a Trainline account.

I have received the attached letter in the post. Does this mean I am going to be taken to court? How do I avoid this. Is there any way for an out of court settlement? And how do I go about responding?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Is this the first time you have done this?

If you engage fully with SouthEastern, you may be able to plead for an out of court settlement in order to avoid court

Others will be along soon to tell you how to respond but have a look on this forum for similar cases to give you an idea

 

[rbo]

just to confirm, this letter is suggesting I will be prosecuted in court?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

just to confirm, this letter is suggesting I will be prosecuted in court?

You could be - and if you don't engage now, they may prosecute you in your absence

But you can prevent this by replying sooner, rather than later, saying you are sorry (genuinely) and convince the train operator that you will never do this again

 

[rbo]

Ok thank you! I really need some advice on how to reply please

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I hope @Hadders won't mind me copying his excellent advice here:

I suggest writing a short, concise letter mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

When you have drafted up your letter, post it here for the experts to read, but redact any personal information

 

[rbo]

This is great thank you! I will have a go at drafting tonight. I believe from what it’s saying in the letter I make my comments on the reserve of this letter?

 

[747292]

Ok thank you! I really need some advice on how to reply please

I’m sure @Hadders and @AlterEgo will be over at some point to give their usual excellent advice, but in order to persuade Southeastern to settle out of court, you need to convince them that you will pay them their losses and administration charges (usually the full anytime adult day single for the journey you have taken plus an administrative fee of around £150), that you have learned from the experience and won’t repeat it in the future. Don’t use any kind of AI to write it as it will sound dreadful! Overall, the letter should include:

- You are sorry for what happened
- You have learned from the experience and will not repeat it
- You would be very grateful to settle the matter outside of court

Don’t incriminate yourself if you’ve done this before - just refer to this incident in the letter. The good news is that Southeastern has a reputation for rarely playing hardball for offences like this. You’re welcome to post your draft letter here for any assistance/help.

 

[Haywain]

Is this the first time you have done this, or just the first time you have been caught? Even if you have used a guest checkout on Trainline you should assume that Southeastern will be able to access your buying history and find out about previous purchases. If that happens and there are previous examples they will seek to be paid the correct fares for those as well - and that will be the full fare for each journey, not the difference, with their costs of around £150 on top.

 

[rbo]

I am not saying I have done this before, but if I were to have done this before, do you think they would already have this information or not looked into it? And should one just address the matter at hand not mentioning whether I have or haven't done this before just mentioning this matter only?

 

[Haywain]

if I were to have done this before, do you think they would already have this information or not looked into it?

You should take it as a certainty that they'll be looking.

And should one just address the matter at hand not mentioning whether I have or haven't done this before just mentioning this matter only?

Correct, you address the matter at hand alone. But you don't do it in a way that denies anything that they might know about.

 

[WesternLancer]

This is great thank you! I will have a go at drafting tonight. I believe from what it’s saying in the letter I make my comments on the reserve of this letter?

You can do that or type it up and attach it - be sure to include your full name and address and ref numbers on each sheet of paper so they match your case. Keep a copy of everything you have had from them and everything you send back.

I would strongly suggest that you send things back to them by tracked postal service from a post office so you can be sure they receive it - it is absolutely vital they get your response if you want to try and avoid this being escalated to a prosecution.

 

[rbo]

and if when interbiewd by the railway staff i said i did not realise it was a childs ticket... if i now admit in my response to knowing and it being a foolish decision to buy it etc will i get penalised further for lying in the first palce and saying i didn't know it was a child's one?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

and if when interbiewd by the railway staff i said i did not realise it was a childs ticket...

@rbo. How old are you? Child tickets on the railway are only intended to be used by young people aged 5-15.

 

[Haywain]

and if when interbiewd by the railway staff i said i did not realise it was a childs ticket... if i now admit in my response to knowing and it being a foolish decision to buy it etc will i get penalised further for lying in the first palce and saying i didn't know it was a child's one?

No, you won't get penalised further. Nobody is daft enough to think it was accidental that you bought it.

 

[rbo]

@rbo. How old are you? Child tickets on the railway are only intended to be used by young people aged 5-15.

well i know this it was a foolish decision to buy a childs tickets to make the journey cheaper but at the time i did not want to admit this to the member of staff and said it was an accident

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2024 ==

No, you won't get penalised further. Nobody is daft enough to think it was accidental that you bought it.

"Dear Sir/Madam,


I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute dated 13/08/24 I wish to explain the circumstances of the incident on 08/08/24 and respectfully request your consideration of my case.


On the day in question, I was on my way home from work and foolishly purchased a child's ticket.


I am deeply sorry for what has happened. I understand the importance of having a valid ticket for the entire journey, and I sincerely regret this decision.


This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring that I have the correct ticket before traveling. I assure you that I have learned from this experience and will be sure to never do this in the future.


I am keen to settle this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to pay the full outstanding fare for the journey as well as any administrative costs incurred by the train company in dealing with this matter.


Given my cooperation with the inspector, I kindly request that you consider my request. I hope we can resolve this matter amicably.


Yours sincerely,"



this is my draft

 

[Haywain]

I am keen to settle this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to pay the full outstanding fare for the journey as well as any administrative costs incurred by the train company in dealing with this matter.


Given my cooperation with the inspector, I kindly request that you consider my request. I hope we can resolve this matter amicably.

Change that around a bit. I suggest this:

I am keen to would be grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to pay the full outstanding fare for the journey as well as any administrative costs incurred by the train company in dealing with this matter.

And the leave the last line out completely.

 

[rbo]

Thanks Haywain - edited below:

"
Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute dated 13/08/24. I wish to explain the circumstances of the incident on 08/08/24 and respectfully request your consideration of my case.


On the day in question, I was on my way home from work and foolishly purchased a child's ticket.


I am deeply sorry for what has happened. I understand the importance of having a valid ticket for the entire journey, and I sincerely regret this decision.


This incident has taught me the importance of ensuring that I have the correct ticket before traveling. I assure you that I have learned from this experience and will be sure to never do this in the future.


I would be grateful to settle this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare for the journey as well as any administrative costs incurred by the train company in dealing with this matter.


Yours sincerely,"

better?

 

[Haywain]

well i know this it was a foolish decision to buy a childs tickets to make the journey cheaper

Genuine question - how old are you? There are ways of making the fares cheaper if you are of a qualifying age.

 

[rbo]

Genuine question - how old are you? There are ways of making the fares cheaper if you are of a qualifying age.

33 ‍♀️

 

[Haywain]

33 ‍♀️

Fair enough, that does rather limit the opportunities!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Letter looks much better but it won't make any difference: You state that you were on your way home from work. Do you (really) live near Waterloo East and work in Plumstead?

 

[rbo]

Fair enough, that does rather limit the opportunities!

exactly

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Genuine question - how old are you? There are ways of making the fares cheaper if you are of a qualifying age.

33 ‍♀️

Fair enough, that does rather limit the opportunities!

Network railcard, perhaps, if the journeys are mostly in the South East, or likely not worthwhile as will invariably be subject to the £13 minimum fare requirement?

 

[rbo]

Letter looks much better but...

You state that you were on your way home from work. Do you (really) live near Waterloo East and work in Plumstead?

i have to get on another train from Waterloo East to get back to where I live so this ticket was just for part of my journey. shall I mention this in the letter? @Haywain would be good for your insight too as you've been exremely helpful

 

[AlterEgo]

i have to get on another train from Waterloo East to get back to where I live so this ticket was just for part of my journey. shall I mention this in the letter? @Haywain would be good for your insight too as you've been exremely helpful

Have you been buying child tickets for that, too?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

i have to get on another train from Waterloo East to get back to where I live so this ticket was just for part of my journey. shall I mention this in the letter? @Haywain would be good for your insight too as you've been exremely helpful

No

 

[Haywain]

shall I mention this in the letter?

As above, no.

 

[rbo]

Have you been buying child tickets for that, too?

no i was going to and did tap my contactless card. when i was interviewed by the railway staff on the day she asked where my destination was, I told her Thames Ditton and she said that is not southeastern so as far as she was concerned my journey finished at waterloo east (as thats where my southeastern journey ended)

 

[AlterEgo]

no i was going to and did tap my contactless card. when i was interviewed by the railway staff on the day she asked where my destination was, I told her Thames Ditton and she said that is not southeastern so as far as she was concerned my journey finished at waterloo east (as thats where my southeastern journey ended)

I wouldn't mention it in the letter then.