Prosecution Notice

[Ticket123]

Hi

I have received my prosecution letter today from an incident in August 2023, in which I had not collected a ticket I purchased on Trainline.
As previously mentioned, I had not collected my ticket on a few occasions and been issued a refund, which I know is wrong and have very much learnt the lesson and havent done so since the incident.
However, I have received the intention to prosecute, attached, and they have gone through my account and state that between April 2018 and August 2023 I have avoided paying the correct fare on 81 other occasions, and have offered me to pay £1075 to cover these fares and admin costs. This is absolutely not true, and I can only think they are referring to me using a Gold Card and Network Railcard discount during this time, which I genuinely had.
I am assuming I can email and say I am very sorry and understand the actions were wrong and happy to pay any outstanding fares that I owe, but provide evidence of the rail cards, which I have, so that they can reassess the amount? I completely get I am in the wrong and I am genuinely happy to pay the amount, but I dont think the £1075 is fare as the actually amount is only about £200.
Thanks for any assistance, it's greatly appreciated

 

[Haywain]

I think you should carefully note that they state that the amount at which they will allow you to settle is non-negotiable.

 

[Olivine]

I think you should carefully note that they state that the amount at which they will allow you to settle is non-negotiable.

Well not at all - they open saying if you have evidence of a railcard then they will reconsider the amount. It’s quite clearly going to have to be a genuine financial settlement and OP should be allowed to make representations to the allegations.

OP - you self flaggelate here - why was it wrong for you to claim back on unused tickets? Or were you just claiming back on ones that you didn’t have to scan?

 

[Haywain]

OP - you self flaggelate here - why was it wrong for you to claim back on unused tickets?

Uncollected, not unused.

 

[Ticket123]

Thank you, I did note that they said it's not negotiable, but I assumed that was if I agreed I couldnt counter offer??
So I hold my hands up I was purchasing tickets on trainline and not collecting them and then Trainline issued a refund. And I get that was wrong and as I said I have learnt my lesson and wont be doing it again, but I have only done this on a handful of occasions not 81 times for the last 3.5 years. So the only thing I can think is that they have assumed that over the last few years I have also been purchasing tickets with a railcard that I didnt have and that is where the figure has been calculated.

 

[Titfield]

With all due respect I do not see how you can say "I have learnt my lesson". I doubt that many would consider that not repeating a methodology of avoiding paying the due fare is learning a lesson.

I would think long and hard before repeating this in any communication with the TOC.

 

[TheJester]

Of course you can put in a counter offer but they may not accept it and move straight to court. I’d settle just for peace of mind but it is your choice.

 

[John R]

One sticking point could be the evidence needed for previous railcards - we’ve seen in another case that the railcard itself is needed - which is often unsurprisingly not available, as who bothers to keep an out of date physical railcard after it is expired.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If you did hold Railcards, I don't see that you have anything to lose by letting the railway see them. As posters have said, it would be best if you can produce them, but otherwise find whatever you can to show that you had them.

It might be that it will reduce the settlement amount: I can't see it resulting in an increase.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Before replying to Chiltern, I think you need to carry out some research of your Trainline account between the dates mentioned above. I would list:

1. Tickets purchased, where they were from and to. How much they cost?
2. Was a railcard discount applied, if so was it a Gold Card or Network Railcard discount?
3. Was a refund given?

From what you've told us any ticket on which a refund was given will part of the 81 journeys mentioned in the settlement
How many tickets were purchased with a railcard discount? Can you show you held a railcard during this period?

If you can't account for the 81 journeys then I do think it's in order to query the breakdown of the settlement with Chiltern.

 

[Ticket123]

Welcome to the forum!

Before replying to Chiltern, I think you need to carry out some research of your Trainline account between the dates mentioned above. I would list:

1. Tickets purchased, where they were from and to. How much they cost?
2. Was a railcard discount applied, if so was it a Gold Card or Network Railcard discount?
3. Was a refund given?

From what you've told us any ticket on which a refund was given will part of the 81 journeys mentioned in the settlement
How many tickets were purchased with a railcard discount? Can you show you held a railcard during this period?

If you can't account for the 81 journeys then I do think it's in order to query the breakdown of the settlement with Chiltern.

Thank you, I went through and I can find 77 at £835.29 where I used a railcard of some kind or a refund was issued. Of this I believe only 32 incidences at £322.25 should be fined. I dont have the physical cards but I have sent them the e-receipt for the Network Rail card and three receipts from TFL showing dates for which I owned a travelcard and therefore a Gold Card to that same date range, I rang TFL and they said that they could confirm that I was issued the card if needed, I have also sent the letters that the gold cards were attached to albeit they annoyingly arent dated. There are also a couple for tickets I have brought for my parents with a Senior Card which I have provided.
I'll see what they come back with, hopefully they will discount the times when the railcard is valid and I can just pay the settlement and move on with my life.
Thanks for the advice everyone

 

[skyhigh]

Of this I believe only 32 incidences at £322.25 should be fined.

This depends on how you've calculated the amount here - if you've used Advance/Railcard/Off-Peak Return prices the company are likely to use Anytime Single prices to calculate the amount owed. Add in an admin fee of £150-200 and you're probably not far off £1000 (assuming as said that you didn't use the Anytime Single price to calculate the amount).

 

[Haywain]

The letter you received stated that a Single Justice Procedure Notice was included in the pack and this should give a date by which you must enter a plea to the charge. What is that date?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Of this I believe only 32 incidences at £322.25 should be fined.

To be fair, that seems quite a lot. What was the typical journey, and why would they be considered to be moody?

 

[Ticket123]

They were all single tickets not return.
I've sent the information I have now so I will see what they come back with and make a decision from there.
Thank you everyone for your help

 

[fandroid]

Thank you, I did note that they said it's not negotiable, but I assumed that was if I agreed I couldnt counter offer??
So I hold my hands up I was purchasing tickets on trainline and not collecting them and then Trainline issued a refund. And I get that was wrong and as I said I have learnt my lesson and wont be doing it again, but I have only done this on a handful of occasions not 81 times for the last 3.5 years. So the only thing I can think is that they have assumed that over the last few years I have also been purchasing tickets with a railcard that I didnt have and that is where the figure has been calculated.

Sorry, this is a side question that's possibly not relevant. If you didn't collect the tickets, how did you travel?

 

[island]

Sorry, this is a side question that's possibly not relevant. If you didn't collect the tickets, how did you travel?

Presumably they travelled between ungated stations on a service which does not have regular ticket inspections.

 

[Ticket123]

Hi everyone. Thanks again for your responses and help.
They have just emailed back and reduced the settlement from £1075 to £480 based on the proof of railcards provided so I will just pay that amount and move on!

 

[Papyrus]

Negotiable then!

 

[methecooldude]

Negotiable then!

Not really, negotiating would be "can we call this £500 and be done with it"
What the OP has done is provide evidence that the railway was wrong in part so they can no longer request that fare