Prosecution from WMR for short fare

[LucasT02]

Hello all,

So I'm pretty sure I'm due a prosecution letter through the post soon, after being stopped and interviewed by a member of the WMR Revenue Protection Inspection Team. The ticket I purchased only covered pretty much half of the journey (Aston - Birmingham New Street) after getting onto the train at Erdington. I don't actually have a past with avoiding train fares, and I have hardly ever travelled from this particular station before, it was really a one off journey for me. As I was in a rush to jump onto the train, there was an issue with buying a ticket from the departure station hence why I bought a different one - obviously I understand this is not an acceptation.

When arriving at Birmingham New Street, loads of people were faced with RPIs and questioned. One in particular pulled me aside as I went to scan through the barriers. Long story short, he went through a bunch of questions, reiterating a lot of the question of where I in fact got on the train, and why I had this ticket in particular. He also asked to see my ID, which I didn't have, to then following up by asking to go on my phone settings and see my personal details. He also requested to see my Trainline ticket history - this is all over the place as I said I can catch different trains up and down the country. He then asked why I came from the station I said I got on at (Erdington), in which I asked why they needed to know this...? Then proceeded to read me my rights (yes, just like a police officer would) but tell me that I wasn't detained in any way... then mentioned about a letter coming to my address in several weeks time.

Ahead of this, I wanted to draft up an email in which I have a rough understanding on what the letter will be about - avoiding a train fare. This is what I have drafted (on the presumption I have a chance of requesting for an out of court settlement fee) so far so any further advice would be much appreciated:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing this letter to sincerely apologise for not being in possession of a valid ticket on XXXXXX for my full journey when I was approached by a member of WMR staff. I boarded the train at Erdington Station intending to travel to Birmingham New Street, and unfortunately I was unable to purchase a ticket at Erdington due to the train arriving and departing very quickly.

I did experience difficulty with mobile signal and WiFi connectivity on a moving train at the time, which delayed my ability to purchase a ticket online. At the earliest opportunity, I purchased a ticket covering the portion from Aston to Birmingham New Street. I now understand that this did not cover the entire journey I took, and I truly regret not being able to do the right thing from the start.

I recognise that it is solely my responsibility to ensure I hold a valid ticket for the entire length of my travel, regardless of technical issues or timing. I am deeply sorry for any inconvenience this has caused to the staff and for the time and resources spent dealing with this matter.

I would be grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle this matter without court action where I am willing to cover outstanding costs and in the future I will, to the best of my ability, ensure I always have a valid ticket from the departing station before boarding the train.

Once again, I sincerely apologise and hope to resolve this as amiably as possible.

Yours faithfully,

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello all,

So I'm pretty sure I'm due a prosecution letter through the post soon, after being stopped and interviewed by a member of the WMR Revenue Protection Inspection Team. The ticket I purchased only covered pretty much half of the journey (Aston - Birmingham New Street) after getting onto the train at Erdington. I don't actually have a past with avoiding train fares, and I have hardly ever travelled from this particular station before, it was really a one off journey for me. As I was in a rush to jump onto the train, there was an issue with buying a ticket from the departure station hence why I bought a different one - obviously I understand this is not an acceptation.

When arriving at Birmingham New Street, loads of people were faced with RPIs and questioned. One in particular pulled me aside as I went to scan through the barriers. Long story short, he went through a bunch of questions, reiterating a lot of the question of where I in fact got on the train, and why I had this ticket in particular. He also asked to see my ID, which I didn't have, to then following up by asking to go on my phone settings and see my personal details. He also requested to see my Trainline ticket history - this is all over the place as I said I can catch different trains up and down the country. He then asked why I came from the station I said I got on at (Erdington), in which I asked why they needed to know this...? Then proceeded to read me my rights (yes, just like a police officer would) but tell me that I wasn't detained in any way... then mentioned about a letter coming to my address in several weeks time.

Ahead of this, I wanted to draft up an email in which I have a rough understanding on what the letter will be about - avoiding a train fare. This is what I have drafted (on the presumption I have a chance of requesting for an out of court settlement fee) so far so any further advice would be much appreciated:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing this letter to sincerely apologise for not being in possession of a valid ticket on XXXXXX for my full journey when I was approached by a member of WMR staff. I boarded the train at Erdington Station intending to travel to Birmingham New Street, and unfortunately I was unable to purchase a ticket at Erdington due to the train arriving and departing very quickly.

I did experience difficulty with mobile signal and WiFi connectivity on a moving train at the time, which delayed my ability to purchase a ticket online. At the earliest opportunity, I purchased a ticket covering the portion from Aston to Birmingham New Street. I now understand that this did not cover the entire journey I took, and I truly regret not being able to do the right thing from the start.

I recognise that it is solely my responsibility to ensure I hold a valid ticket for the entire length of my travel, regardless of technical issues or timing. I am deeply sorry for any inconvenience this has caused to the staff and for the time and resources spent dealing with this matter.

I would be grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle this matter without court action where I am willing to cover outstanding costs and in the future I will, to the best of my ability, ensure I always have a valid ticket from the departing station before boarding the train.

Once again, I sincerely apologise and hope to resolve this as amiably as possible.

Yours faithfully,

Welcome to the forum!

It looks as if you've done your research, as that letter may very well convince WMR not to prosecute you, as long as
- you send it at the right time i.e. wait for WMR to write to you sometime in the next few days/weeks/months, and
- you cover all the points that they ask about (which you won't know for certain until you get their letter).

So for the moment put your draft to one side, and wait for WMR to write to you. Then have a look, and see how well your reply matched what they ask. With a bit of luck, I would hope your response will get them to treat you kindly, and let you settle out of court for the train fare that you should have paid, plus maybe £150 as an admin fee.

 

[LucasT02]

Welcome to the forum!

It looks as if you've done your research, as that letter may very well convince WMR not to prosecute you, as long as
- you send it at the right time i.e. wait for WMR to write to you sometime in the next few days/weeks/months, and
- you cover all the points that they ask about (which you won't know for certain until you get their letter).

So for the moment put your draft to one side, and wait for WMR to write to you. Then have a look, and see how well your reply matched what they ask. With a bit of luck, I would hope your response will get them to treat you kindly, and let you settle out of court for the train fare that you should have paid, plus maybe £150 as an admin fee.

Thanks for your response. I do hope some kind person who receives my request will opt to settle out of court. Definitely won't be making the mistake of buying the wrong ticket again that's for sure.

Out of interest, how serious can things like this get? I'd be interested to know what they can do to extract a hefty prosecution penalty...

 

[WesternLancer]

Out of interest, how serious can things like this get? I'd be interested to know what they can do to extract a hefty prosecution penalty...

Based on a helpful post by @Titfield on another thread the most serious it can get is if it escalates to prosecution at court and you are found guilty, or plead guilty:

Worst Case Scenario: If it went to court then it would be a fine based on your income, a victim surcharge based on your income and then the amount for the rail company (the fare avoided and any admin fees they incur).

The fare avoided is the full adult single fare with no credit for the fare paid already or any railcard discount.

You would also receive a criminal record that you would have to declare for a period of time

It's the criminal record that most people ultimately want to avoid because of the ramifications relating to declaring this on job applications / declaring to employer etc.

But being taken to court can usually be avoided by engaging with the railway company in a co-operative fashion when they get in touch with you.

You need to be aware that they will almost certainly look at your one line ticketing history and might ask you questions about that if anything there arouses suspicion of regular fare evasion. Tickets form different places closer to a regular destination (i.e. suspected short faring), which are not near your postal address, is the sort of thing that might arouse suspicion for example.

 

[Haywain]

and unfortunately I was unable to purchase a ticket at Erdington due to the train arriving and departing very quickly.

I did experience difficulty with mobile signal and WiFi connectivity on a moving train at the time, which delayed my ability to purchase a ticket online.

All of this shifts the blame and does not work in your favour. You are required to buy a ticket before boarding (where facilities are available to do so) and "the train arriving ... quickly" actually says you didn't give yourself time.

At the earliest opportunity, I purchased a ticket

It wasn't the earliest opportunity, that was before you boarded the train.

Be a little more honest about these parts if you want a sympathetic hearing from the train company.

 

[minderbinder]

I'm afraid it rather undermines the sincerity of your apology if you present it alongside explanations distancing yourself from responsibility. Neither wifi issues nor the train's prompt departure are responsible or even relevant to your decisions to (a) board the train without a valid ticket and (b) purchase a ticket from a station further down the line from that which you boarded.

WMR will correctly view this as fairly blatant case of deliberate fare-dodging so it would be best for your letter to anticipate this. I have suggested some small edits below. But, as @Fawkes Cat advises above, wait for WMR to write to you before sending anything.



Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing this letter to sincerely apologise for not being in possession of a valid ticket on XXXXXX for my full journey from Erdington to Birmingham New Street when I was approached by a member of WMR staff. I boarded the train at Erdington Station intending to travel to Birmingham New Street, and unfortunately I was unable to purchase a ticket at Erdington due to the train arriving and departing very quickly.

I did experience difficulty with mobile signal and WiFi connectivity on a moving train at the time, which delayed my ability to purchase a ticket online. At the earliest opportunity, I purchased a ticket covering the portion from Aston to Birmingham New Street. I now understand that this did not cover the entire journey I took, and I truly regret not being able to do the right thing from the start.

I recognise that it is solely my responsibility to ensure I hold a valid ticket for the entire length of my travel, regardless of technical issues or timing. I am deeply sorry for any inconvenience this has caused to the staff and for the time and resources spent dealing with this matter my error of judgement.

I would be grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle this matter without court action where I am willing to cover outstanding costs and in the future I will to the best of my ability, ensure I always have a valid ticket from the departing station before boarding the train.

Once again, I sincerely apologise and hope to resolve this as amicably as possible.

Yours faithfully,

 

[LucasT02]

All of this shifts the blame and does not work in your favour. You are required to buy a ticket before boarding (where facilities are available to do so) and "the train arriving ... quickly" actually says you didn't give yourself time.

It wasn't the earliest opportunity, that was before you boarded the train.

Be a little more honest about these parts if you want a sympathetic hearing from the train company.

I understand this may shift the blame, I don' t really want it to come across this way at all.
The idea came from reading all the terms & conditions from WMR website itself, in particular this section: "If you arrive at a station that has no ticket office, or Ticket Vending Machines available, you can purchase a ticket on our website or via our free app, before the commencement of your journey. In the event you cannot purchase a ticket via any of the above ways, you must make yourself known to the conductor as soon as possible, who may be able to sell you a ticket. If not, you must purchase your ticket at the earliest opportunity."

- I thought the last part sounded pretty vague, even they say you must buy one at the earliest opportunity...

Although if it's more likely removing this will get me out of a court appeal, I guess I'll have to oblige.

 

[Cuthbert]

I understand this may shift the blame, I don' t really want it to come across this way at all.
The idea came from reading all the terms & conditions from WMR website itself, in particular this section: "If you arrive at a station that has no ticket office, or Ticket Vending Machines available, you can purchase a ticket on our website or via our free app, before the commencement of your journey. In the event you cannot purchase a ticket via any of the above ways, you must make yourself known to the conductor as soon as possible, who may be able to sell you a ticket. If not, you must purchase your ticket at the earliest opportunity."

- I thought the last part sounded pretty vague, even they say you must buy one at the earliest opportunity...

Although if it's more likely removing this will get me out of a court appeal, I guess I'll have to oblige.

If you got on at Erdington you would have passed a ticket machine and the ticket office to get into the platform.

The last bit is if you were unable to buy the ticket from the station before boarding as stated in the article you posted above.

If you were also unable to make yourself known the the conductor on the train after not being able to buying a ticket at Erdington's facilities then your next opportunity would be Birmingham New Street.

Out of interest which part of the train did you board as you got on at Erdington?

 

[LucasT02]

If you got on at Erdington you would have passed a ticket machine and the ticket office to get into the platform.

The last bit is if you were unable to buy the ticket from the station before boarding as stated in the article you posted above.

If you were also unable to make yourself known the the conductor on the train after not being able to buying a ticket at Erdington's facilities then your next opportunity would be Birmingham New Street.

Out of interest which part of the train did you board as you got on at Erdington?

I'd say it was 4 carriages down.

 

[Cuthbert]

I'd say it was 4 carriages down.

Four carriages either side would have been close to the conductor. Maybe four carriages from the front a little further away.

But WMR will check that the ticket office was opened and also if the ticket machines were in operation.

 

[LucasT02]

Hi all,

So this morning I had an email from the Digital Fraud Team, this is the contents below:

Dear XXXXXX,

We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on XX/XX/XX when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket that was not valid for the journey you had completed, possibly committing short journey fraud.

You were interviewed under caution for possibly committing short journey fraud.

West Midlands Trains take travel fraud seriously and are committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, as such, a single offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, a criminal record.

Consideration will be taken as to whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006, in particular ‘Fraud by false representation’.

At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.

We look forward to hearing from you.

- Would be grateful if anyone could suggest the next cause of action, as per the original thread opening post of my situation.

Many thanks,

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

So this morning I had an email from the Digital Fraud Team, this is the contents below:

Dear XXXXXX,

We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on XX/XX/XX when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket that was not valid for the journey you had completed, possibly committing short journey fraud.

You were interviewed under caution for possibly committing short journey fraud.

West Midlands Trains take travel fraud seriously and are committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, as such, a single offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, a criminal record.

Consideration will be taken as to whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006, in particular ‘Fraud by false representation’.

At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.

We look forward to hearing from you.

- Would be grateful if anyone could suggest the next cause of action, as per the original thread opening post of my situation.

Many thanks,

I'm not a lawyer but my hunch is that this at least seems unlikely to be a route they would go down in prosecution terms given what they usually do:

Consideration will be taken as to whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006, in particular ‘Fraud by false representation’.

However, I guess the next steps are the extent to which your earlier draft response that you worked up - with amends eg as per post #6, is a suitable response to send to this e-mail you have had, and if it needs further adjustments in the context of what they are saying to you.

I'm sure people will pitch in on that.

 

[LucasT02]

It's just occurred to me that they have got the date wrong by 1+ day out, should this be corrected in an email response?

 

[Hadders]

It's just occurred to me that they have got the date wrong by 1+ day out, should this be corrected in an email response?

Yes, you could correct them.

 

[LucasT02]

Hi all,

An update: I responded to the email (#11) with a carefully written response expressing apologies, and reassuring that this won't occur in the future.

I received the following response:
Good morning,

Thankyou for your response. Can you please provide evidence of the 16-17 railcard attached to your account. Can you also please provide evidence of your date of birth and current address.

Regards,

- I have to say I'm really confused as to this response. Mainly for the '16-17 railcard' which has been mentioned which I was not prosecuted for. At no point in an interview with the staff at the time of occurance did I mention having a railcard ticket, nor did I purchase one with a railcard. I do not have an associated rail card attached to my account, nor have I ever owned one...

Some help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[AlterEgo]

Tell them you don't have one and that isn't what the case is about.

More WMR barely literate nonsense.

 

[LucasT02]

Tell them you don't have one and that isn't what the case is about.

More WMR barely literate nonsense.

Thanks for the response, I'm glad someone else thinks this.

I've replied mentioning not owning one so I'll wait and see what they say I guess.

Maybe they've got the wrong individual...?

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for the response, I'm glad someone else thinks this.

I've replied mentioning not owning one so I'll wait and see what they say I guess.

Maybe they've got the wrong individual...?

Their admin is very bad, I'd wager they have used the wrong pre-populated email for you.

 

[LucasT02]

URGENT!! PLEASE HELP

So I've had another email today from the train company, where a list of transactions has been 'deemed' as invalid. I've been asked to submit further evidence in which I can show a written statement by trainline that I had never had a railcard on the account. I need to provide evidence to support this list of transactions. Essentially, the list dates back a few years and the journeys have been totalled. I believe these are all legitimist journeys however.

I'm very confused as to how a list of transactions is their word against mine if I can provide evidence of the transactions being made... My trainline ticket history also does not go back this far.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[AlterEgo]

URGENT!! PLEASE HELP

So I've had another email today from the train company, where a list of transactions has been 'deemed' as invalid. I've been asked to submit further evidence in which I can show a written statement by trainline that I had never had a railcard on the account. I need to provide evidence to support this list of transactions. Essentially, the list dates back a few years and the journeys have been totalled. I believe these are all legitimist journeys however.

I'm very confused as to how a list of transactions is their word against mine if I can provide evidence of the transactions being made... My trainline ticket history also does not go back this far.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Please post the text of their response. They struggle to write in clear English and it would help to know exactly what they are demanding from you here.

 

[LucasT02]

There response is as follows:
Good afternoon,

Thankyou for your response. I have included a table of the transactions that have been deemed as invalid. If you have any further evidence to support your transactions then please forward it so we can assess it against your transactions. If no further evidence can be provided then we will require payment to resolve the matter.

*A table of: Departure (Time), Origin, Destination, Ticket Type, Child, Railcard, Issue, Price* - these tickets date back ~5 years

The total amount to be paid is X, this includes admin fees. This is due to be paid, or evidence submitted by XX/XX/XX
*reason for administration fee*

As I mentioned, I'm confused about the railcard having never owned one. My tickets do not show that far on the Trainline app. The latest show an issue as *short journey* in which they are not (the tickets may show on the trainline history, i'm still looking back through).

 

[Titfield]

Can you provide an example of what one of the line entries reads?

 

[LucasT02]

Update: Turns out I did in fact own a 16-17 railcard at the time, I have proof of this too. I'm sure this will be sufficient evidence against this particular part of the claim

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2025 ==

Can you provide an example of what one of the line entries reads?

Sure, one line more recent is as follows:

XX/XX/21 // Aston - Birmingham New Street // Evening Day Single // 0 // No (Railcard) // Short Journey // £5.80

 

[Egg_1]

Update: Turns out I did in fact own a 16-17 railcard at the time, I have proof of this too. I'm sure this will be sufficient evidence against this particular part of the claim

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2025 ==


Sure, one line more recent is as follows:

XX/XX/21 // Aston - Birmingham New Street // Evening Day Single // 0 // No (Railcard) // Short Journey // £5.80

How much was the admin fee's? Why is it over £120 and they lie to us saying "£50 if you pay within 21 days" when I also didn't get the option to pay it immediately.

 

[LucasT02]

How much was the admin fee's? Why is it over £120 and they lie to us saying "£50 if you pay within 21 days" when I also didn't get the option to pay it immediately.

I believe my case my be different to yours. The typical admin fee is now around £175. They will only charge £50 (anyone correct me if i'm wrong) if you are issued an on-the-spot penalty for lack of a ticket or incorrect ticket in that circumstance.

 

[Titfield]

The £50 if you pay within 21 days is a Penalty Fare. A penalty fare can only be issued at the time of the occurrence and not afterwards.

Issuing a Penalty Fare is at the discretion of the Ticket Inspector. They can decide instead to refer the matter for investigation in which case a Penalty Fare can not and will not be issued. Short faring or railcard issues are now frequently referred for investigation to check if you have short fared or wrongly claimed a raikcard discount before.

Admin Fees are variable and reflect the amount of investigation undertaken. If they have had to contact online travel agencies (booking sites) to get your booking history this will be reflected in the admin fee charged.

 

[Egg_1]

The £50 if you pay within 21 days is a Penalty Fare. A penalty fare can only be issued at the time of the occurrence and not afterwards.

Issuing a Penalty Fare is at the discretion of the Ticket Inspector. They can decide instead to refer the matter for investigation in which case a Penalty Fare can not and will not be issued. Short faring or railcard issues are now frequently referred for investigation to check if you have short fared or wrongly claimed a raikcard discount before.

Admin Fees are variable and reflect the amount of investigation undertaken. If they have had to contact online travel agencies (booking sites) to get your booking history this will be reflected in the admin fee charged.

They decided to investigate 1 ticket and it costs me over £130??? That is a joke and they never told me about this admin fee, also they never game me am option to pay it on the spot so you reckon I should try to persuade them to only charge me £50 or do they never accept this

 

[LucasT02]

They decided to investigate 1 ticket and it costs me over £130??? That is a joke and they never told me about this admin fee, also they never game me am option to pay it on the spot so you reckon I should try to persuade them to only charge me £50 or do they never accept this

They will never accept this. If they have not mentioned at the time of questioning, it's most likely your luck ran out and they've decided to email you and charge you more.

Also, could I kindly request any more queries be made in another thread? I'm sure someone will definitely be able to help your situation if needed. I really could do with some advice as for my original query.

 

[yorkie]

Please can all replies from this point onwards be directly related to @LucasT02's thread.

For any discussion pertaining to @Egg_1 's matter, their own thread must be used instead:

Applied a railcard discount when not entitled to

I travelled on a train for 10 mins, landed at Birmingham New Street, and then I realised I bought the ticket using a 16-17 Saver discount, which I was not entitled to. I gave the revenue inspector a fake DOB and address, but I decided I will pay the fine by email. I got the email and was...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks.

 

[AlterEgo]

Update: Turns out I did in fact own a 16-17 railcard at the time, I have proof of this too. I'm sure this will be sufficient evidence against this particular part of the claim

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 May 2025 ==


Sure, one line more recent is as follows:

XX/XX/21 // Aston - Birmingham New Street // Evening Day Single // 0 // No (Railcard) // Short Journey // £5.80

Ok, so - it doesn’t seem they’ve made any errors in conflating the cases.