raesmith
Member
Hi, I’d really appreciate if anyone can offer me some understanding in a bit of a pickle I got myself into.
Just the facts of the matter to start: roughly 6 months ago I was coming back from uni to come home. The last time I came home was 4 months before this. More backstory - I was under significant financial stress with housing and other things that happen as a student (if you know you know) and so I was just feeling so low and needed to be home! Now when I went to book my ticket, I booked 1 or 2 days before. Normally I book like a week before. But I was in such a rush - I was being disorganised. Now anyway, like I say I hadn’t travelled for 4 months before this journey. Everything on Trainline seemed fine, so I bought my ticket (£19), and a few days later, got on the train.
***can I also just add that this discount added its self AUTOMATICALLY, I’ve read this issue has happened to so many people, then they’ve ended up in the exact same situation as me. Surely SWR are aware of this and should take this into consideration??? Or is this Trainline fault!?
A ticket guard came through, scanned my ticket, said everything was fine. So that was fine. Then when I got off the train at my station, I scanned my ticket, left the gate, so excited to be home. Then this guard just steps out in front of me and asks that I show him my ticket. Obviously I complied - I had no reason not to. He looked at it and said “says you have a railcard can I see that”, so I pulled that up too. Or at least I tried to. When I tell you my heart SANK when I realised what was happening. my railcard had expired!!! He brought me back through the gate annd asked if I definitely didn’t have one. I was so adament I did because I always pay for my railcard and it feels like yesterday that I bought it. Anyway we looked through my emails and couldn’t find anything so he just assumed I didn’t have one. That’s fine I totally get it he’s doing his job. But then I said to him “I’m so so sorry, I’ll pay the fine/difference now!” And he said “no I actually don’t have power over whether u pay a fine or whether u get prosecuted” (general quotes not what was exactly said). I said “okay - so u can’t tell me how much a fine is, or the difference is, and u can’t tell me whether or not I can pay that now?”, he then said “no I don’t even know if you’ll pay a fine or whether you’ll be prosecuted, it’s not up to me, you’ll hear from our officers when they’ve made a decision”….i thought this is odd, because I know SO many people that have been stopped without a valid ticket/railcard and they’ve never been threatened for prosecution, they’ve literally ALL only ever had to pay a difference on the spot (and it’s never been more than £5). So obviously that’s when I started to get a bit more shaken up. I thought I’d try and clarify one more time - “so I definitely can’t pay the difference or the fine now, as I’m happy to”, he confirms “it’s up to the officers whether they want to prosecute you”. Then he goes on for about 10 minutes stating “we need your valid address because if an officer decides to come to your address to discuss this with you, you need to comply, we don’t need to give you notice, also incase you receive any letters from us, etc etc…” then he told me not to worry about the “report for prosecution” receipt he printed me…but I mean who wouldn’t worry.
Anyway I did re-buy a valid railcard once I got home - I know this doesn’t really make a difference but I needed it regardless.
Anyway skip to 6 months later, I receive the letter saying they will proceed the prosecution as they have enough evidence that I was “indenting to avoid payment thereof” - now I guess my first question is this. In my initial ‘report for prosecution’ note, the issue in question states “discount not entitled, out of date railcard”…then on the first letter I get it changes to “intent to avoid payment”….but then, a few weeks later from them and an email states my offence is “travelling without a ticket”. I guess I’m just wondering are these all different offences, am I within my right to email them to clarify exactly which bylaw(s) I have apparently violated? Because I understand I allegedly breached something, but it seems they’ve been inconsistent - I just seek clarification.
Secondly, when I responded to them with my letter explaining my side, I attached pretty much all of my previous travels and railcard purchases, just I guess to show I’ve never ever done this before. I understand they don’t need to take this into account but I’ve asked around and it seems that for most first time ‘offenders’, when something like this occurs, it isn’t uncommon for officers to provide a warning first. So I guess my second question is, despite all my evidence, what exactly did they “investigate” and what evidence did they gather that has allowed them to proceed with such an aggressive prosecution process!
Again - I understand they have to do their jobs - but to an extend. Don’t ask for an explanation or anything to mitigate if you won’t actually consider it.
Anyway. Where does their settlement amount come from? This is probably just be being nosey. I know it’s probably best I just pay it and shut up. But £150? Jesus man I’m a student. I currently owe like over £2grand as I lost my housing, and now £150 on top of that is crayyzyyyy. Considering I’ve paid £18 for the initial ticket, £30 for the railcard, £10 to send the letter they asked for. And this is completely seperate and has nothing to do with this issue but I was on a broken train for 3 hours the other day and they couldn’t even refund me my £30 seriously. This is just so crazy. I never thought I’d be spending all my overdraft on TRAINS.
Anyway. I’ve read enough forums to know by now that there’s nothing I can really say or do, I’m pretty much stuck in this position they’ve got me in. Because ultimately I did fail to produce a valid railcard. But it feels so unjust and I guess morally wrong to treat the case so harshly. I don’t think my case was considered, now I have to “admit” I committed an offence “intentionally” and pay £150 just so I don’t get a criminal record at 20 years old. It just seems like so much just for an isolated event. And one where I’ve seen it happen to other people and they’ve gotten off with a slap on the wrist.
Anyway. Thanks. Any help would be much appreciated. I just want to know if it’s even worth dwelling on, or if I should just cut my losses and pay this money. Also since I’ve gotten my letter for my 3 options from them, is it probably not the best thing to do to email them asking which offences I’ve alleged committed? or am I within my right to ask! I just don’t want to dig myself a grave at the ripe age of 20! But equally I’m unfortunately just a very forthright person and I like my clarification Okay thanks!
Just the facts of the matter to start: roughly 6 months ago I was coming back from uni to come home. The last time I came home was 4 months before this. More backstory - I was under significant financial stress with housing and other things that happen as a student (if you know you know) and so I was just feeling so low and needed to be home! Now when I went to book my ticket, I booked 1 or 2 days before. Normally I book like a week before. But I was in such a rush - I was being disorganised. Now anyway, like I say I hadn’t travelled for 4 months before this journey. Everything on Trainline seemed fine, so I bought my ticket (£19), and a few days later, got on the train.
***can I also just add that this discount added its self AUTOMATICALLY, I’ve read this issue has happened to so many people, then they’ve ended up in the exact same situation as me. Surely SWR are aware of this and should take this into consideration??? Or is this Trainline fault!?
A ticket guard came through, scanned my ticket, said everything was fine. So that was fine. Then when I got off the train at my station, I scanned my ticket, left the gate, so excited to be home. Then this guard just steps out in front of me and asks that I show him my ticket. Obviously I complied - I had no reason not to. He looked at it and said “says you have a railcard can I see that”, so I pulled that up too. Or at least I tried to. When I tell you my heart SANK when I realised what was happening. my railcard had expired!!! He brought me back through the gate annd asked if I definitely didn’t have one. I was so adament I did because I always pay for my railcard and it feels like yesterday that I bought it. Anyway we looked through my emails and couldn’t find anything so he just assumed I didn’t have one. That’s fine I totally get it he’s doing his job. But then I said to him “I’m so so sorry, I’ll pay the fine/difference now!” And he said “no I actually don’t have power over whether u pay a fine or whether u get prosecuted” (general quotes not what was exactly said). I said “okay - so u can’t tell me how much a fine is, or the difference is, and u can’t tell me whether or not I can pay that now?”, he then said “no I don’t even know if you’ll pay a fine or whether you’ll be prosecuted, it’s not up to me, you’ll hear from our officers when they’ve made a decision”….i thought this is odd, because I know SO many people that have been stopped without a valid ticket/railcard and they’ve never been threatened for prosecution, they’ve literally ALL only ever had to pay a difference on the spot (and it’s never been more than £5). So obviously that’s when I started to get a bit more shaken up. I thought I’d try and clarify one more time - “so I definitely can’t pay the difference or the fine now, as I’m happy to”, he confirms “it’s up to the officers whether they want to prosecute you”. Then he goes on for about 10 minutes stating “we need your valid address because if an officer decides to come to your address to discuss this with you, you need to comply, we don’t need to give you notice, also incase you receive any letters from us, etc etc…” then he told me not to worry about the “report for prosecution” receipt he printed me…but I mean who wouldn’t worry.
Anyway I did re-buy a valid railcard once I got home - I know this doesn’t really make a difference but I needed it regardless.
Anyway skip to 6 months later, I receive the letter saying they will proceed the prosecution as they have enough evidence that I was “indenting to avoid payment thereof” - now I guess my first question is this. In my initial ‘report for prosecution’ note, the issue in question states “discount not entitled, out of date railcard”…then on the first letter I get it changes to “intent to avoid payment”….but then, a few weeks later from them and an email states my offence is “travelling without a ticket”. I guess I’m just wondering are these all different offences, am I within my right to email them to clarify exactly which bylaw(s) I have apparently violated? Because I understand I allegedly breached something, but it seems they’ve been inconsistent - I just seek clarification.
Secondly, when I responded to them with my letter explaining my side, I attached pretty much all of my previous travels and railcard purchases, just I guess to show I’ve never ever done this before. I understand they don’t need to take this into account but I’ve asked around and it seems that for most first time ‘offenders’, when something like this occurs, it isn’t uncommon for officers to provide a warning first. So I guess my second question is, despite all my evidence, what exactly did they “investigate” and what evidence did they gather that has allowed them to proceed with such an aggressive prosecution process!
Again - I understand they have to do their jobs - but to an extend. Don’t ask for an explanation or anything to mitigate if you won’t actually consider it.
Anyway. Where does their settlement amount come from? This is probably just be being nosey. I know it’s probably best I just pay it and shut up. But £150? Jesus man I’m a student. I currently owe like over £2grand as I lost my housing, and now £150 on top of that is crayyzyyyy. Considering I’ve paid £18 for the initial ticket, £30 for the railcard, £10 to send the letter they asked for. And this is completely seperate and has nothing to do with this issue but I was on a broken train for 3 hours the other day and they couldn’t even refund me my £30 seriously. This is just so crazy. I never thought I’d be spending all my overdraft on TRAINS.
Anyway. I’ve read enough forums to know by now that there’s nothing I can really say or do, I’m pretty much stuck in this position they’ve got me in. Because ultimately I did fail to produce a valid railcard. But it feels so unjust and I guess morally wrong to treat the case so harshly. I don’t think my case was considered, now I have to “admit” I committed an offence “intentionally” and pay £150 just so I don’t get a criminal record at 20 years old. It just seems like so much just for an isolated event. And one where I’ve seen it happen to other people and they’ve gotten off with a slap on the wrist.
Anyway. Thanks. Any help would be much appreciated. I just want to know if it’s even worth dwelling on, or if I should just cut my losses and pay this money. Also since I’ve gotten my letter for my 3 options from them, is it probably not the best thing to do to email them asking which offences I’ve alleged committed? or am I within my right to ask! I just don’t want to dig myself a grave at the ripe age of 20! But equally I’m unfortunately just a very forthright person and I like my clarification Okay thanks!
