Prosecuted for expired railcard before boarding train

[AlterEgo]

GWR have been sitting on cases for a very long time and then taking some higher value cases forward for civil recovery. They have six months to prosecute. If they don't prosecute in this time frame they lose the option entirely.

 

[Snow1964]

Unfortunately yes I have traveled previously. Two short journeys: one Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter and then one Keynsham to Bristol Temple Meads. I guess I just have accept I’ll be prosecuted for these journeys. Is there any point trying to argue how the officer addressed it at all? He at no point mentioned the previous journeys and accused me only of attempting to travel with an invalid ticket on this occasion (yesterday’s journey). He shouldn’t have begun to prosecute me from the start and instead let me just buy a new ticket which seems a bit unfair. But fair enough regarding the other two journeys.

Did you buy these previous journeys through same app or website.
If not the railway probably won't know about them
Very unlikely to be aware if you buy tickets from machines at station or ticket office rather than an app that logs your data.

I will have tapped my ticket at the gates in Bristol Temple Meads both times and I think I tapped off at Exeter as well. The only time I didn’t scan my ticket was in Keynsham. Will that affect anything?

Just to be clear, when you use term tapped, are you referring to scanning normal ticket at gates, or do you mean the tapping in and out using Pay as you go (PAYG) app, which exists in Bristol area. (Exeter is outside its area, but Keynsham-Bristol is inside)

The other question, is after the on platform ticket inspection which identified the expired railcard, was the railcard renewed before boarding the train. This affects if you boarded the train with an invalid ticket, or had made it valid before boarding.

 

[bellaaa]

Did you buy these previous journeys through same app or website.
If not the railway probably won't know about them
Very unlikely to be aware if you buy tickets from machines at station or ticket office rather than an app that logs your data.


Just to be clear, when you use term tapped, are you referring to scanning normal ticket at gates, or do you mean the tapping in and out using Pay as you go (PAYG) app, which exists in Bristol area. (Exeter is outside its area, but Keynsham-Bristol is inside)

The other question, is after the on platform ticket inspection which identified the expired railcard, was the railcard renewed before boarding the train. This affects if you boarded the train with an invalid ticket, or had made it valid before boarding.

I bought them all on Trainline so they’ll probably be able to track those :/
Tapping meaning I scanned it at the gates, which I understand is recorded on the app too?
No I couldn’t renew it because he was stood with me the whole time asking me for my details, putting together his report. But I was literally escorted by him so it feels unfair for them to use that against me. I had asked him if I could still board and he’d said yes. But I also didn’t think I had a choice because he gestured for me to get on.

 

[z444z]

The other question, is after the on platform ticket inspection which identified the expired railcard, was the railcard renewed before boarding the train. This affects if you boarded the train with an invalid ticket, or had made it valid before boarding.

I don’t think a byelaw offence have been committed regardless.

Byelaw 18(3):
No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18(1) or 18(2) if:
(i) NOT RELEVANT
(ii) NOT RELEVANT
(iii) an authorised person gave that person permission to travel without a valid ticket

The OP was given permission when they asked if they could still get the train and the RPI said yes, knowing that the OP didn’t hold or at least was likely not to hold a valid ticket.

@bellaaa could you please insert in this paragraph exactly when you boarded the train with the inspector?

I go to show him my ticket and he asks to see the railcard. I open the app and realise it’s expired and admit this to officer and explain I hadn’t realised and that’s my bad. He starts asking to take pictures of my ticket, my travel history, expired railcard and ID. I don’t understand what’s happening so I just comply. Then he starts telling me I was attempting to travel with a discount that’s invalid and that this has to go to the prosecution team to process. I ask if I can just buy a new ticket or pay the difference and he’s says no. He’s taken all my details and I says I’m going to get a prosecution letter which will contain a fine.

 

[bellaaa]

I don’t think a byelaw offence have been committed regardless.

The OP was given permission when they asked if they could still get the train and the RPI said yes, knowing that the OP didn’t hold or at least was likely not to hold a valid ticket.

@bellaaa could you please insert in this paragraph exactly when you boarded the train with the inspector?

I don’t really understand. I boarded the train when it arrived at the platform. He brought me to the carriage where all his colleagues were and gestured for me to get on before him.

 

[CarrotPie]

I don’t really understand. I boarded the train when it arrived at the platform. He brought me to the carriage where all his colleagues were and gestured for me to get on before him.

I think what z444z wants to know is at what stage in the ticket discussion did you get on the train? Was it before you asked if you could buy a new ticket, after he took your details, etcetera?

 

[bellaaa]

I think what z444z wants to know is at what stage in the ticket discussion did you get on the train? Was it before you asked if you could buy a new ticket, after he took your details, etcetera?

Oh right thanks - to clarify, I had already asked at this point if I could buy a new ticket/pay the difference can’t remember exactly how I worded it but he’d said no. He was in the process of finding and confirming my home address to send the letter and was explaining what the letter would entail when the train arrived. I’ll put this into the paragraph now.

 

[island]

In the unlikely event that a Compulsory Ticket Area is in play here, it should be noted that there is no penalty available for a breach of National Rail Byelaw 17. (A court could order compensation and costs, however.)