Proposed Overground frequency increases

[evergreenadam]

According to a recent FOI response posted on the TfL website, the following changes are currently envisaged:


London Overground currently has the following plans to increase service frequencies:

• On the Mildmay line we plan to increase service frequencies during peak periods from five trains per hour (tph) to seven tph between Clapham Junction and Shepherds Bush, subject to confirmation of the allocation of track capacity. This enhancement is currently expected to be introduced between May 2026 and December 2026;
• On the Windrush line we plan to increase service frequencies during peak periods in two steps as follows:
  • Step 1: By increasing the service between Crystal Palace and Highbury & Islington from four tph to six tph. This will raise the service level on the Core of the route (Dalston Junction <> Surrey Quays) from 16 tph to 18 tph, subject to confirmation of the allocation of track capacity. This enhancement is currently expected to be introduced in December 2026;
  • Step 2: By increasing the service between Clapham Junction and Dalston Junction from four tph to six tph. This will raise the service level on the Core of the route (Dalston Junction <> Surrey Quays) from 18 tph to 20 tph. This enhancement remains subject to confirmation of timetable feasibility, value and affordability. The earliest date for introduction of this proposed enhancement is currently May 2029;
• On the Weaver line we plan to increase service frequencies during weekday off peak periods as follows:
  • From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Enfield Town;
  • From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Cheshunt;
  • This enhancement remains subject to confirmation of timetable feasibility, value and affordability. The earliest date for introduction of this proposed services is currently May 2027.

 

[JonathanH]

On the Weaver line we plan to increase service frequencies during weekday off peak periods as follows:

• From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Enfield Town;
• From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Cheshunt;
• This enhancement remains subject to confirmation of timetable feasibility, value and affordability. The earliest date for introduction of this proposed services is currently May 2027.

It will be interesting to see how this is done against the current 8tph Cambridge / Hertford / Stansted service. The pattern at the moment is effectively a recurring 15 minute pattern.

 

[SynthD]

Does having these plans suggest they are confident that they’ll be given the allocation?

 

[cle]

On the Weaver line we plan to increase service frequencies during weekday off peak periods as follows:

• From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Enfield Town;
• From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Cheshunt;
• This enhancement remains subject to confirmation of timetable feasibility, value and affordability. The earliest date for introduction of this proposed services is currently May 2027.

This is the most transformational here. Will be a 6tph service through the core route (and through Seven Sisters) which will really change uptake.

I'm curious about the 2tph uplift to WLL (Clapham to SheBu only) and what form that will take.

And the Windrush (ELL) changes we knew about, but interesting to see the timings.
I am assuming uneven 6tph as the new four services would probably be at quarters on the same clock (e.g. 05, 20, 35, 50) - so along the Clapham section, it wouldn't be even, or as TUAG. Other than Crystal Palace, the 2tph extra there don't matter as it's already a metro/non-timetable frequency of 8tph, this would take it to 10tph and people wouldn't notice an imbalance.

 

[JonathanH]

This is the most transformational here. Will be a 6tph service through the core route (and through Seven Sisters) which will really change uptake.

In the aftemoon peak, 6tph via Seven Sisters is managed by running extra trains from Liverpool Street at xx21 and xx51 to Cheshunt, and sending the xx15 and xx45 to Enfield Town to compliment the xx00 and xx30. 3tph each to Enfield Town and Cheshunt could conceivably be based on xx00, xx21, xx45 and xx15, xx30, xx51 without flexing the Chingford and Greater Anglia times but that still gives unbalanced waiting times south of Edmonton Green. The xx10, xx12, xx25, xx28, xx40, xx43, xx55, xx58 pattern of Greater Anglia departures is somewhat constrained by the Chingford trains calling at Bethnal Green, Hackney Downs and Clapton, although it does seem that Greater Anglia services at xx07 and xx37 can be squeezed through in the peaks.

 

[evergreenadam]

In the aftemoon peak, 6tph via Seven Sisters is managed by running extra trains from Liverpool Street at xx21 and xx51 to Cheshunt, and sending the xx15 and xx45 to Enfield Town to compliment the xx00 and xx30. 3tph each to Enfield Town and Cheshunt could conceivably be based on xx00, xx21, xx45 and xx15, xx30, xx51 without flexing the Chingford and Greater Anglia times but that still gives unbalanced waiting times south of Edmonton Green. The xx10, xx12, xx25, xx28, xx40, xx43, xx55, xx58 pattern of Greater Anglia departures is somewhat constrained by the Chingford trains calling at Bethnal Green, Hackney Downs and Clapton, although it does seem that Greater Anglia services at xx07 and xx37 can be squeezed through in the peaks.

Wonder if deleting the Bethnal Green calls in the Chingford line services on its own would help to increase train paths.

 

[cle]

In the aftemoon peak, 6tph via Seven Sisters is managed by running extra trains from Liverpool Street at xx21 and xx51 to Cheshunt, and sending the xx15 and xx45 to Enfield Town to compliment the xx00 and xx30. 3tph each to Enfield Town and Cheshunt could conceivably be based on xx00, xx21, xx45 and xx15, xx30, xx51 without flexing the Chingford and Greater Anglia times but that still gives unbalanced waiting times south of Edmonton Green. The xx10, xx12, xx25, xx28, xx40, xx43, xx55, xx58 pattern of Greater Anglia departures is somewhat constrained by the Chingford trains calling at Bethnal Green, Hackney Downs and Clapton, although it does seem that Greater Anglia services at xx07 and xx37 can be squeezed through in the peaks.

I thought that some were Seven Sisters shuttles - does not no longer occur?

 

[Kite159]

.....

Wonder if deleting the Bethnal Green calls in the Chingford line services on its own would help to increase train paths.

Especially if it meant Greater Anglia & the Chingford services using the connection to the 'fast' lines from the Main line bypassing the platforms at Bethnal Green, with other Greater Anglia services heading to Stratford using the 'Electric' lines coming out of Liverpool Street

 

[JonathanH]

I thought that some were Seven Sisters shuttles - does not no longer occur?

No, all services run through to Liverpool Street currently.

 

[BJames]

I thought that some were Seven Sisters shuttles - does not no longer occur?

This never actually took place - however you're right that it was proposed a while ago, but I think there were a number of issues with the suggestion, including iirc something related to signal sighting for 8 coach units when being turned at Seven Sisters. It would likely have to be turned on the curve to avoid blocking the main line. I'm not sure if this issue was the same for 4 coach units or not.

Wonder if deleting the Bethnal Green calls in the Chingford line services on its own would help to increase train paths.

Potentially - I think some work may need to be done at Hackney Downs to improve connection times for those wanting the Chingford branch from Bethnal Green (although this may come naturally with an increased frequency of the Cheshunt/Enfields) - at the moment, trains bound for Cheshunt and Enfield arrive at Hackney Downs 1 minute before Chingfords (and realistically at the same time often, as it's not uncommon for the Cheshunts and Enfields to pick up around 30/60 seconds delay between Liverpool Street and Hackney Downs). Even if you sprinted you'd probably not make that connection.



As someone living on the Weaver line I am particularly pleased to see this though and will watch this with interest. I realise it's unlikely to make a clockface every 20 minute service due to the conflicts with GA services mentioned above but I would hugely welcome an uplift in services from today's timetable.

I know that TfL were planning to retime the peak time services on the Weaver line to create a more even service pattern between Edmonton and Liverpool Street and that this was proposed to take place from December 2025 but I wonder if this will still happen or if this will be delayed until the off peak changes mentioned in the OP are agreed and take place.

 

[Class15]

I'm curious about the 2tph uplift to WLL (Clapham to SheBu only) and what form that will take.

I assume they would reverse in the Turnback at North Pole, which would make it unavailable to terminate Southern services early of course. I think these might be able to use 378/1s, unless of course they are resourced from Wembley.

 

[JCO1406]

Do TFL have enough trains to run the proposed services?

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Probably not, but that won't stop them ...?!!!

For the Shepherds Bush frequency improvement, does that mean that some of the Channel Tunnel freight paths that were reserved following the legislation to to approve the Channel Tunnel back in the 1980s (but not used) are being handed back?

 

[swt_passenger]

Do TFL have enough trains to run the proposed services?

Good question, but IIRC the numbers involved in the finalised 710 order did include allowance for certain frequency increases, some of which were in the then medium term future.

I think it might be covered in an earlier thread about why the numbers of certain variants were chosen, there were certainly TFL ’board papers’ that listed future improvements. But I think some of the 710 use was switched around, for example weren’t Watfords supposed to be all 4 car, but that didn’t happen?

 

[Cach17]

If you ask me, the extra 4tph on the Windrush/EL Line should go to Battersea Park. It'd (re)introduce a more direct route between Clapham High Street/Wandsworth Road and Victoria without having to go all the way via Clapham Junction, even if a change of trains is still required.

 

[Pdf]

Those extra Clapham branch trains will be nice. They're always packed at rush hour. Wish they could do it sooner.

 

[MatthewE707]

On the Weaver line we plan to increase service frequencies during weekday off peak periods as follows:

• From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Enfield Town;
• From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Cheshunt;

If this is the off-peak plan, what might the peak frequency look like? I don't think there are paths for more than 6 trains per hour, but the current pattern of 4 Enfield and 2 Cheshunt would give Cheshunt less trains at peak times, but if they had 3 each, would 3tph be enough for Enfield Town at peak times?

 

[30907]

If you ask me, the extra 4tph on the Windrush/EL Line should go to Battersea Park. It'd (re)introduce a more direct route between Clapham High Street/Wandsworth Road and Victoria without having to go all the way via Clapham Junction, even if a change of trains is still required.

Yes to Battersea Park, but TfL think the priority is the Sydenham routes, which doesn't in the least surprise me. That means you only have 2tph to play with in 4 years time.

 

[cle]

If this is the off-peak plan, what might the peak frequency look like? I don't think there are paths for more than 6 trains per hour, but the current pattern of 4 Enfield and 2 Cheshunt would give Cheshunt less trains at peak times, but if they had 3 each, would 3tph be enough for Enfield Town at peak times?

I would assume no change, so yes off peak those three stations would have 1tph less. Cheshunt users probably won't be too bothered.

Yes to Battersea Park, but TfL think the priority is the Sydenham routes, which doesn't in the least surprise me. That means you only have 2tph to play with in 4 years time.

I don't think an additional branch is worthwhile at 2tph - even though Battersea Park now has the whole BPS set-up, Apple, mall, Northern line etc - it is admittedly more of a destination, but this would add complexity. 2tph to Clapham Junction would help with some of the annoying waits between ELL and WLL (often arrive at CJ at same times, and 12-13 min waits for a change)

 

[NorthLondoner]

Is there a reason why the Cheshunt branch isn't being 3tph in the peaks? Won't it be easier to make it 3+3 all day instead of 4+2 in peaks then 3+3?

 

[Snow1964]

TfL Board Finance papers for next weeks meeting include quite a bit of detail. It is principally regarding new operating concession from May 2026 but includes some details of service from May 2026 and December 2026

See sections 4.6 and 4.7
(currently having problems copying to quote)

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s25579/Chairs%20Action%20London%20Overground%20Concession%203.pdf

 

[Sad Sprinter]

According to a recent FOI response posted on the TfL website, the following changes are currently envisaged:


London Overground currently has the following plans to increase service frequencies:

• On the Mildmay line we plan to increase service frequencies during peak periods from five trains per hour (tph) to seven tph between Clapham Junction and Shepherds Bush, subject to confirmation of the allocation of track capacity. This enhancement is currently expected to be introduced between May 2026 and December 2026;
• On the Windrush line we plan to increase service frequencies during peak periods in two steps as follows:
  • Step 1: By increasing the service between Crystal Palace and Highbury & Islington from four tph to six tph. This will raise the service level on the Core of the route (Dalston Junction <> Surrey Quays) from 16 tph to 18 tph, subject to confirmation of the allocation of track capacity. This enhancement is currently expected to be introduced in December 2026;
  • Step 2: By increasing the service between Clapham Junction and Dalston Junction from four tph to six tph. This will raise the service level on the Core of the route (Dalston Junction <> Surrey Quays) from 18 tph to 20 tph. This enhancement remains subject to confirmation of timetable feasibility, value and affordability. The earliest date for introduction of this proposed enhancement is currently May 2029;
• On the Weaver line we plan to increase service frequencies during weekday off peak periods as follows:
  • From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Enfield Town;
  • From two tph to three tph between Liverpool Street and Cheshunt;
  • This enhancement remains subject to confirmation of timetable feasibility, value and affordability. The earliest date for introduction of this proposed services is currently May 2027.

Guess this means we’re not getting 4th back into London Bridge

 

[amarshe]

Guess this means we’re not getting 4th back into London Bridge

Well we now have 4 tph between 0730 and 0915 from Forest Hill into London Bridge, and 1700 to 1810 from LBG southbound give or take a few minutes. More importantly it would be nice to have 8 or 10 car Southrn trains at the weekend which can be rammed, as Southern run them as 4/5 cars. An increase in the Overgound seems to be the best outcome in the current economic environment (and yes, I remember the 10-15 minute Southern services pre-covid...)

A more frequent service on the Overgound would be appreciated as (1) it's cheaper and (2) changing onto the Jubilee line at Canada Water for LBG is roughly the same time as the direct Southern service; albeit more hassle.

 

[ScotGG]

Southern are getting a net increase in stock so perhaps longer trains are on the way. The previous government ordered them to enact big cuts after covid with two whole fleets being scrapped without replacement. The entire fleet serving metro routes being one. The trains were old but ditching wholesale was extremely short sited.

Whether this government supports larger service increases remains to be seen. Since taking power they've dragged their feet despite opposing in opposition. A trickle here and there but a long way short of what existed. That goes for Southern, Southeastern and South Western Railway. The current timetable runs until May 2026 so almost two years since taking power with many cuts retained.

Funny thing is where cuts were reversed passenger numbers have recovered very well.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Well we now have 4 tph between 0730 and 0915 from Forest Hill into London Bridge, and 1700 to 1810 from LBG southbound give or take a few minutes. More importantly it would be nice to have 8 or 10 car Southrn trains at the weekend which can be rammed, as Southern run them as 4/5 cars. An increase in the Overgound seems to be the best outcome in the current economic environment (and yes, I remember the 10-15 minute Southern services pre-covid...)

A more frequent service on the Overgound would be appreciated as (1) it's cheaper and (2) changing onto the Jubilee line at Canada Water for LBG is roughly the same time as the direct Southern service; albeit more hassle.

The Sourhern service does get a terrible path into London Bridge.

That’s also why I wanted the Vic to Bridge service to be Overground’d because the cheaper prices might relieve the East London Line section

 

[Cricketer8for9]

I would have thought stock for Saturday would not be an issue as even now Southern is stocked for Mon-Fri peaks and has spare stock at weekends.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I would have thought stock for Saturday would not be an issue as even now Southern is stocked for Mon-Fri peaks and has spare stock at weekends.

You’d think so wouldn’t you. Even when the overground is not running Southern still wheels out a 4car set

 

[bb21]

The Sourhern service does get a terrible path into London Bridge.

That’s also why I wanted the Vic to Bridge service to be Overground’d because the cheaper prices might relieve the East London Line section

What makes you think if they were to go over to London Overground the fares would align with the TfL fare scale? West Anglia routes already broke that tradition.

 

[amarshe]

The Sourhern service does get a terrible path into London Bridge.

That’s also why I wanted the Vic to Bridge service to be Overground’d because the cheaper prices might relieve the East London Line section

Yes, the morning peak services regularly take 20 minutes or so - it's only 80p more than the Overground/Jubilee option though and at in my experience near 100% chance of getting a seat.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2025 ==

You’d think so wouldn’t you. Even when the overground is not running Southern still wheels out a 4car set

^^This. I guess it's money saving in track charges etc. but normally the Overground is running, yet Southern services are rammed during peak weekend hours; when the Overground isn't running, I've seen people unable to board and having to wait 30 minutes to try again.

 

[zero]

Is it not possible to get West Croydon to more than 4tph?