Proper procedure when platform lights are faulty

[hkstudent]

I was on a Dartford-bound Southeastern service on Bexleyheath Line tonight (after 23:30), with the last London-bound service having departed.
When the train arrives at Falconwood, the whole station was dark as not having lights on.

The driver then made an announcement saying lights are faulty, but due to being close to the end of service, he will still open the doors and reminds passengers to be careful.
Is that the right way, given that arranging station staff to get to Falconwood or Welling (for arranging alternative transport back to Falconwood) may seem not feasible?

 

[jon0844]

You have the lighting from the train to illuminate the platform, which is fine if people can see their way to the exit and actually do so before the train moves (if not, are they now left wandering around in the dark - and what if the exit is not where the train is stopped on the platform?), but how does the driver safely close the doors and proceed if it's that dark?

That's the reason a train may not be able to call at a station without lighting.

Does the train have bodyside cameras and are they good enough in the dark? If not, how do you safely dispatch? If using mirrors, can you see anything? Even if using platform cameras, are they good enough to use without lighting?

On balance, I'd say the train should have not stopped and released the doors and control was notified to arrange taxis/buses at another station as appropriate.

 

[LowLevel]

Each station has a risk assessment as to whether it's possible to call with failed lighting. DOO services are barred from calling at more stations than trains with guards as the guard can move around as need be to a) escort passengers and b) see the train to dispatch it. DOO dispatch (unless the station is passed for the driver using a door panel like a guard would, albeit only from the front) is far more reliant on good lighting levels to allow the cameras or mirrors to function, or to take into account that the driver can only realistically dispatch the train from the front.

 

[43066]

The driver then made an announcement saying lights are faulty, but due to being close to the end of service, he will still open the doors and reminds passengers to be careful.
Is that the right way, given that arranging station staff to get to Falconwood or Welling (for arranging alternative transport back to Falconwood) may seem not feasible?

It’s a lot better than *not* opening the doors, resulting people missing their stop and/or egresses/passcoms being pulled.

 

[43066]

Does the train have bodyside cameras and are they good enough in the dark? If not, how do you safely dispatch? If using mirrors, can you see anything? Even if using platform cameras, are they good enough to use without lighting?

No on train cameras, platform monitors which can work in surprisingly low light conditions, (variable depending on the location). If the driver felt he was unable to safely dispatch he could have walked back and locked the train doors coach by coach using the porter switches.

 

[Aictos]

Each station has a risk assessment as to whether it's possible to call with failed lighting. DOO services are barred from calling at more stations than trains with guards as the guard can move around as need be to a) escort passengers and b) see the train to dispatch it. DOO dispatch (unless the station is passed for the driver using a door panel like a guard would, albeit only from the front) is far more reliant on good lighting levels to allow the cameras or mirrors to function, or to take into account that the driver can only realistically dispatch the train from the front.

In some cases even though the station might have been passed for its risk assessment to have DOO services call as the lighting was deemed acceptable at the time, standards do change and the risk assessment can fail requiring changes to be made to enable a pass as well.

Hertford North is a typical example as on platform 1 it was DOO for a long time then the lighting was deem to be unacceptable so they recruited staff to dispatch in the hours of darkness bearing in mind this was when 313s was the stable traction.

Just to explain a bit more that's all.

 

[Roast Veg]

Similar story once at Crowhurst - train held while passengers made their way out of the station area because of failed lighting. This was a down train, and there's a three track gap over to the up side where the exit is!

 

[Gathursty]

Isn't there a station up North where due to no lights, the station either isn't called at in the Winter or re-timed earlier to be served in daylight?

I'm thinking either New Clee or somewhere like Falls of Cruachan?

 

[DorkingMain]

When I was a guard, the official procedure for lack of station lighting at most stations was to warn passengers before arrival, and then wait until they had left the platform before beginning dispatch. The light from the train was generally sufficient to illuminate the platform. I think a few stations (which had a very large gap or some other risk) were still "not to call" in that situation, though I can't remember off the top of my head which ones they were.

 

[ld0595]

Isn't there a station up North where due to no lights, the station either isn't called at in the Winter or re-timed earlier to be served in daylight?

I'm thinking either New Clee or somewhere like Falls of Cruachan?

Falls of Cruachan is only open March to October due to the lack of lighting on the platform.

 

[Aictos]

Also just to add that for DOO services and I'm referring to the Great Northern here, there used to be and I'm sure it's still the case that the 24/7 manned stations would have a supply of emergency lighting lanterns which would be dispatched to the station affected with a member of staff who would remain on site until engineers on site manage to resume full power to the station after which the member of staff would leave the station with the emergency lighting and return them to whatever station they came from.

This is something I've had to do least twice myself and attending a unmanned station in the middle of the night with nothing for miles isn't fun.

 

[jon0844]

In some cases even though the station might have been passed for its risk assessment to have DOO services call as the lighting was deemed acceptable at the time, standards do change and the risk assessment can fail requiring changes to be made to enable a pass as well.

Hertford North is a typical example as on platform 1 it was DOO for a long time then the lighting was deem to be unacceptable so they recruited staff to dispatch in the hours of darkness bearing in mind this was when 313s was the stable traction.

Just to explain a bit more that's all.

Also why 387s have to be dispatched at WGC northbound but not southbound.

 

[Aictos]

Also why 387s have to be dispatched at WGC northbound but not southbound.

I'm no longer a frequent user so was unaware of the above requirement but thank you for adding it as a example.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Isn't there a station up North where due to no lights, the station either isn't called at in the Winter or re-timed earlier to be served in daylight?

I'm thinking either New Clee or somewhere like Falls of Cruachan?

New Clee wasn't served at night because of no platform lighting, which it got sometime in the "tenties" which I got to see in 2015 when I walked by the station.

 

[haggishunter]

Falls of Cruachan is only open March to October due to the lack of lighting on the platform.

This always struck me as a bit daft, why is it ok for trains to call at this station in the dark with no lighting before the end of October and from early March, but not in between those months? The overwhelming majority of passengers are going to have some way of generating some light if required to leave a station and in this case there is a smart card validator and passenger info display, so it's not a case that power could not be got to the station, its already there and there are houses with gardens backing onto the station.

 

[The exile]

I was on a Dartford-bound Southeastern service on Bexleyheath Line tonight (after 23:30), with the last London-bound service having departed.
When the train arrives at Falconwood, the whole station was dark as not having lights on.

The driver then made an announcement saying lights are faulty, but due to being close to the end of service, he will still open the doors and reminds passengers to be careful.
Is that the right way, given that arranging station staff to get to Falconwood or Welling (for arranging alternative transport back to Falconwood) may seem not feasible?

It sounds like a very sensible pragmatic approach, as long as it was not then used as a justification for not providing alternative transport back from the next station for those who didn’t want to risk it. It also meant that any passengers wanting to board were able to do so ( doubt there were many!)

 

[30907]

This always struck me as a bit daft, why is it ok for trains to call at this station in the dark with no lighting before the end of October and from early March, but not in between those months? The overwhelming majority of passengers are going to have some way of generating some light if required to leave a station and in this case there is a smart card validator and passenger info display, so it's not a case that power could not be got to the station, its already there and there are houses with gardens backing onto the station.

What about the underwhelming minority though? And does the potential use during the hours of darkness justify the cost of installing and maintaining lighting?

 

[furnessvale]

What about the underwhelming minority though? And does the potential use during the hours of darkness justify the cost of installing and maintaining lighting?

When I get off a bus at a country bus stop, the bus drives off and I am in complete darkness. Unlike the railways, the next moving vehicle that comes along can flatten me, even if I attempt to keep clear.

In its attempt to be ultra safe, the railway has moved itself into a position where the cost of safety means it is unaffordable and people use less safe alternatives.

 

[ComUtoR]

In its attempt to be ultra safe, the railway has moved itself into a position where the cost of safety means it is unaffordable and people use less safe alternatives.

Moved or pushed ?


"where there's blame, there's a claim"

 

[MotCO]

When I get off a bus at a country bus stop, the bus drives off and I am in complete darkness. Unlike the railways, the next moving vehicle that comes along can flatten me, even if I attempt to keep clear.

In its attempt to be ultra safe, the railway has moved itself into a position where the cost of safety means it is unaffordable and people use less safe alternatives.

But a country bus stop does not have any platform edges, nor potentially a footbridge or stairs down a foot tunnel.

Having said that, I think that a train waiting at the platform until all passengers had left the platform, using its interior lights to provide illumination should be sufficient, and possibly some solar powered lights for stairs should be a cost effective solution (for Falls of Cruachan station).

 

[furnessvale]

But a country bus stop does not have any platform edges, nor potentially a footbridge or stairs down a foot tunnel.

Having said that, I think that a train waiting at the platform until all passengers had left the platform, using its interior lights to provide illumination should be sufficient, and possibly some solar powered lights for stairs should be a cost effective solution (for Falls of Cruachan station).

Once a bus moves away from the bus stop on a country lane you have no idea what is ahead, unless of course, heaven forbid, you carry a torch.

I have read of instances where a station is closed for want of light on the platform where, having walked down the end of the platform you are instantly in complete darkness as the norm. As you say, light from the train should be enough.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Sep 2021 ==

Moved or pushed ?

Correct. A combination of the railways, courts, ambulance chasers, DfT, railway inspectorate and others.

It is many years since I used to observe in various courts, including coroners, where, to save relatives feelings, suicide verdicts were avoided, only to see a claim then lodged against the railway.

 

[haggishunter]

What about the underwhelming minority though? And does the potential use during the hours of darkness justify the cost of installing and maintaining lighting?

The point is the station is used during the hours of darkness. It’s a single platform rural station, with no street lighting in the area, almost anyone using it would know the score and it could be advised in the timetable and onboard the train if necessary?

 

[30907]

The point is the station is used during the hours of darkness.

Good point - I am surprised that the late train at 2050 does so.

 

[Gareth]

There can't be a more wonderful name for a railway station than "Falls of Cruachan".

 

[DelayRepay]

There can't be a more wonderful name for a railway station than "Falls of Cruachan".

If its platform is unlit, that may explain why there are so many Falls

I cannot comment on train dispatch but from this passenger's perspective, I would rather the train stopped. I have a torch in the bottom of my bag (always have since I lived in an area where the council decided to turn the streetlights off at midnight to save electricity). Like most people I can also use my mobile phone as a torch.

I know not everyone will have a torch/phone, but surely those that don't can follow those that do. If this is a regular problem at certain locations then maybe installing a few battery/solar powered PIR lights would work? But I guess at most stations it doesn't happen often enough to justify the expense.

 

[Ken H]

If its platform is unlit, that may explain why there are so many Falls

I cannot comment on train dispatch but from this passenger's perspective, I would rather the train stopped. I have a torch in the bottom of my bag (always have since I lived in an area where the council decided to turn the streetlights off at midnight to save electricity). Like most people I can also use my mobile phone as a torch.

I know not everyone will have a torch/phone, but surely those that don't can follow those that do. If this is a regular problem at certain locations then maybe installing a few battery/solar powered PIR lights would work? But I guess at most stations it doesn't happen ofte n enough to justify the expense.

Most public places have to have emergency exit signs that light up when the leccy goes off. These units cost about £15. I know an outside one is probably more. But why on the 'safe' railway is this modest requirement not mandatory.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most public places have to have emergency exit signs that light up when the leccy goes off. These units cost about £15. I know an outside one is probably more. But why on the 'safe' railway is this modest requirement not mandatory.

They are never required outdoors. The indoor part of stations will have them as per the legal requirement.

They are also only designed to last about 4 hours, so to provide for evacuation rather than ongoing operation.

 

[furnessvale]

Most public places have to have emergency exit signs that light up when the leccy goes off. These units cost about £15. I know an outside one is probably more. But why on the 'safe' railway is this modest requirement not mandatory.

Put two noughts at least on the end of your £15 if you are going anywhere near a railway with it. Then multiply by the number of stations and points within stations involved.

You have now "solved" one minor problem that very rarely occurs at each station. Let's now move on to the next one, which is what has led to the situation I referred to in #18.

 

[Parham Wood]

Well they managed during the blackout in WWII and you could not use a torch either. My parents said it was hard to know which station you were at, made worse by the repeated stopping in odd places due to air raid alerts, full line capacity etc.. Different attitudes and potential litigation these days though.

 

[MotCO]

Well they managed during the blackout in WWII and you could not use a torch either. My parents said it was hard to know which station you were at, made worse by the repeated stopping in odd places due to air raid alerts, full line capacity etc.. Different attitudes and potential litigation these days though.

And doors were often opened on the wrong side.