Problems at ticket barriers with All Line Rover

[XAM2175]

They work the barriers at Cheshunt, weirdly.

 

[Snow1964]

Just how many ALRs do you think the average station sees in a day?

Not many, but if teaching a manual (human) ticket inspector about them is part of their initiation (training), then there is no logical reason not to include them in the initiation (programming) of new gates when they are added.

It is not like it is a newly invented ticket type, ALRs have been around years longer than most gates.

 

[Haywain]

Not many, but if teaching a manual (human) ticket inspector about them is part of their initiation (training), then there is no logical reason not to include them in the initiation (programming) of new gates when they are added.

It is not like it is a newly invented ticket type, ALRs have been around years longer than most gates.

Actually, the limited coding on the magnetic stripe means that it may not be considered desirable to programme the acceptance of All Line Rovers because they cannot be distinguished from a range of other tickets that would not be valid.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Warrington C, various round Glasgow, Stirling

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==

Epic fail!

What were the various locations?

 

[Haywain]

Your info is well out of date, for over a year at least all Britrail are now offered as M-Pass, delivered as a PDF.

That's what happens when you refer to official sources of information!

 

[Flying Snail]

That's what happens when you refer to official sources of information!

Sadly this sort of nonsense is all too common.

Somebody (in ATOC?) had the bright idea to sell Britrail as >M-Pass< tickets, had them developed, retailed and marketed, including This animation helpfully showing how to use them at ticket gates. But FIVE YEARS later there has been no follow through with the relatively trivial task of programming the gates to accept them, nor apparently has the official National Rail page about the product been kept up to date either.

 

[blakey1152]

At least you didn’t get told it wasn’t valid. In 2018 I was told at Manchester Victoria that it wasn’t valid as “only valid tickets work the barrier”. Had to catch a train to Piccadilly and exit there.

Reminds me of London Bridge, I got so much grief when trying to exit the station at 0900 to get the underground when using an off peak return from Slade Green to Carlisle that I emailed Southeastern and they confirmed the tickets are perfectly valid with the restriction code (can't remember which one now) and sent me an e-mail from their fares manager to show at the gates for my next journey.
It was always if a ticket doesn't work through the barrier therefore its invalid scenario and then they'd say it was because I was using an off-peak ticket so its not valid til 0930...

 

[Silver Cobra]

I used first class 7-day ALRs back in the summers of 2016 and 2018, and I remember that I had very limited success opening barriers with them on both occasions. The only stations where the ticket worked the barriers successfully for me were Liverpool Street, Ipswich and Exeter St Davids. I also remember having a fairly reluctant member of gateline staff at Manchester Victoria only let me through the barriers in 2018 after they watched me use the ticket unsuccessfully on three different gates first (they insisted I had to try several gates before they would let me through).

 

[eastwestdivide]

Update: day 5 of 7.
Barriers that the ALR worked: 0.
Barriers that swallowed it: 0.
Problems with staff: 0, even exiting the Eliz line at Paddington where he said “put it through” - before I did, I said I’d buy him a coffee if it worked.

 

[philthetube]

I have read through the thread, the title mentions problems, I fail to find any.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Problems are:
1. if you put the ticket in, the barriers don’t open, so you have to back up against the flow and find a member of staff.
2. if you seek out a member of staff first, they often make you put the ticket through regardless, slowing things down for everyone.
3. if you’re in a hurry, and the staff member is dealing with someone else, you’re delayed.
Admittedly, not major showstopping problems, but problems they are.

 

[island]

At a normal gateline I'd just barge through and walk off if a member of staff got shirty like that when I was completely certain my ticket was valid, unless BTP were actually stood there watching, in which case enlisting their help may be preferable to getting chased and stopped. Though I'm not sure about MCV's odd glass gateline, it may break rather than just letting you through?

As well as the potential criminal damage to the gates, it's an offence to pass through a gateline otherwise than in the correct manner, so I'd not recommend this.

 

[edgar13]

Problems are:
1. if you put the ticket in, the barriers don’t open, so you have to back up against the flow and find a member of staff.
2. if you seek out a member of staff first, they often make you put the ticket through regardless, slowing things down for everyone.
3. if you’re in a hurry, and the staff member is dealing with someone else, you’re delayed.
Admittedly, not major showstopping problems, but problems they are.

Exactly what I have experienced. I am on day 11/14 now, none of the barriers opened again, not even the one which opened on the first few days at Kings Cross. Almost missed a few connections because of this too.

There are 2 main types of staff that I have encountered:
1) They don't read tickets at all, open barriers for anyone
2) They read each ticket carefully, but does not seem to have knowledge about what an ALR is and its validity, puts ticket through machine again before giving up

The third type is a rarity - the Merseyrail staff at Liverpool Lime Street today was amazing, recognised the ALR straight away, we need more of these

 

[Bletchleyite]

As well as the potential criminal damage to the gates, it's an offence to pass through a gateline otherwise than in the correct manner, so I'd not recommend this.

If there's no BTP present, you walk off quickly and don't plan to use that station again that day, and you hold a valid ticket, there's basically zero chance of anything being done about it.

 

[Dave91131]

If there's no BTP present, you walk off quickly and don't plan to use that station again that day, and you hold a valid ticket, there's basically zero chance of anything being done about it.

I'd also think the railway would be on a sticky wicker by essentially detaining a passenger with a valid ticket due to ticket gates incapable of recognising said valid ticket.

 

[MrJeeves]

I have, in the past, covered the sensors on the gates to allow my friends I'm travelling with to pass through if their (valid) ticket hasn't opened the barriers (usually the magstripe is unreadable for one reason or another). On paper, it is wrong, but I don't think they would bother pursuing it if everyone in question does have valid tickets for their journey. If staff is around, obviously they are the first port of call, but for the remote video assistance, if we're in a hurry, then that's another situation in my eyes.

At the end of the day, these situations come down to a case of being pragmatic and using common sense, though this is something that the railway can lack at times.

 

[Haywain]

a case of being pragmatic and using common sense, though this is something that the railway can lack at times.

It's also something that many of the railway's customers lack!

 

[MrJeeves]

It's also something that many of the railway's customers lack!

Touché!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd also think the railway would be on a sticky wicker by essentially detaining a passenger with a valid ticket due to ticket gates incapable of recognising said valid ticket.

In the one case I actually did it, had I made a formal complaint TfL would have got in a lot of bother for (a) having left a gateline closed and unstaffed, and (b) for the emergency open button being broken, a serious breach of fire regulations, as my thought process was firstly to look for staff (none), then to press the emergency open (broken), and the third option was to barge through which is actually quite rough and wouldn't be recommended for an older person due to the risk of injury. I'm not quite nimble enough to jump over and I wasn't crawling under and getting my trousers mucky!

 

[Justin Smith]

I have recently been using an All Line Rover, and at most of the barriered stations I visited across the country, the barriers fail to open and I have to show staff the ticket to be let through manually. Since this ticket covers the entire network I expected it to be able to open up any barrier except for those few stations with time restrictions, is there a reason for this not being the case?

Some occasions where the barriers did open are at London Kings Cross, Wigan Wallgate and Bournemouth. This seems quite random as I can't think of anything in common between these stations.

Today at Acton Main Line however, the barrier which didn't open in the morning did so in the afternoon, but along with opening the barrier it also "ate" the ALR. I almost had a heart attack and was very lucky that a staff was there to help retrieve it. I am still confused by how it happened, as I thought only tickets with that station as the final destination would be "eaten" to facilitate for breaks of journey and other allowances.

If I had an All Line Rover (or even when I have a weekly regional railrover) I'd be using the manned gate. There is no way I'd be putting it into the machines which (as you found) might not return it !

 

[jfollows]

If I had an All Line Rover (or even when I have a weekly regional railrover) I'd be using the manned gate. There is no way I'd be putting it into the machines which (as you found) might not return it !

It's not as easy as that, sometimes the person manning the gate insists that you put it in the reader. So I just say "it won't work" and it doesn't, and it's irritating.

 

[furlong]

This is not a problem that's going to get fixed. The existence of a single magnetic stripe encoding capable of opening all barriers is especially undesirable from a fraud point of view. Bearers of particularly high-value tickets should expect to be subject to a lot more manual checks, I'm afraid.

 

[Flying Snail]

This is not a problem that's going to get fixed. The existence of a single magnetic stripe encoding capable of opening all barriers is especially undesirable from a fraud point of view. Bearers of particularly high-value tickets should expect to be subject to a lot more manual checks, I'm afraid.

Annual Seasons are often many times more expensive than ALRs, I can just imagine the outrage if the railway systematically programmed the barriers to reject these as a matter of course.

Besides which I'd hardly class the regular vacant stares and sighs of not giving a toss as a manual check of anything anywhere close to revenue protection, just a general irritation and waste of time for all concerned.

 

[Snapper37]

Does this mean we have a trip report to look forward to? Last one I did was pre wife and children, now planning the next one as a retirement reward….

 

[yorkie]

Reopened to enable @edgar13 to post an update

 

[edgar13]

Thanks.

So I'm recently doing another ALR, but this time I've ran into even more serious problems similar to those mentioned by some others above.

More than just an inconvenience, I have been barred from using the ticket where it should've been valid on multiple occasions.

1) Willesden Junction. Barriers all closed, no staff seen nearby.

2) Liverpool Street. Staff refused entry using multiple excuses, even after showing them the ticket description page on national rail website:
- The barrier gave an error code, so it's not valid
- I've never seen this ticket
- This gateline is for the Underground (there's a sign pointing to Elizabeth Line right behind them, some others on national rail tickets have also been let through)

I know the simple and easy bypass would've been to just use an oyster/contactless, but why should I have to pay twice (especially when I chose rail to avoid the tube for this exact reason)? Is there a basis for refund from TfL had I done so?

 

[Hadders]

This is disgraceful and I would not have put up with a refusal. If necessary I would have insisted a manager attended the gateline. If this did not get the desired result I would have purchased an additional ticket so I was not delayed, obtained the member of staff refusing access and made a formal complaint, seeking an assurance that appropriate training would be given along with reimbursement of the additional fare.