Problems at the train station

[Mattyboy]

Hi everyone, for a uni competition project， I need to design something for the current train station, we all know that the epidemic had a big impact on train traffic and I want to understand what people need more in a train station after the epidemic so that it can bring back the passengers like before. What needs to be improved or added?

I would like to make the time people spend commuting my focus.
Do they sit down at the station? Why do some people look tired but they don't sit down, but lean on a pole or sit on their luggage?
The seats are almost full at peak times, what do they need for people who are waiting at stations with delayed trains or who have a long commute?

Is it feasible to give up seats to passengers who have a longer commute?

 

[BJames]

I do see where you're coming from, but you will very likely find some routes where the seats just naturally fill up from the first station onwards and everyone is getting off at the same destination (e.g. London Bridge or Charing Cross from Tunbridge Wells and the rest of the Hastings line). These routes don't have reservable seats and there's no way of finding out who is staying on longer without actually going up to someone and saying "excuse me but I am travelling to London, are you too and if not can I have your seat?" It just wouldn't catch on, especially if you are both reasonably fit and healthy adults. LNER has it right here in my opinion by allowing walk-up reservations up to 5 minutes before boarding so that if there are reservable seats free you'd be able to get one confirmed before getting on the train. Then, it is much more reasonable to ask someone to give up the seat for you, as you have reserved it.

In terms of why some people don't sit but lean on a pole or sit on luggage, a few reasons come to mind:
1) Not actually that many benches/seats on the platform and certainly not at peak commuter times
2) Commuters tend to know where they need to stand for the exits they want, so if there's a pole or something nearby they'll lean on that
3) Not convinced sitting down helps with the tiredness - I stand sometimes in the morning or walk instead of getting the bus if I feel like I need to wake up a bit!
4) Sitting on luggage - this is probably not aimed at commuter times? But again sometimes for reasons above or just convenience/may want to let someone else take one of the seats that are available.

What makes waiting times less arduous for me is having more facilities - I really don't like having to wait half an hour for my next Enfield train at Seven Sisters, but it's not so bad at Liverpool Street as I can get a drink/snack/wonder round the shops if I'm too bored - plus there's just more going on in general.

There is a lot of other things that I'm sure others will add at some point.

Oh, and welcome to the forum

 

[Ken X]

Do you have any budgetary parameters to work to? Unplanned delays are the biggest problem for me using the railway. Warm waiting areas with information services would be good but thats big money.

I find most problems at stations are invariably made better by a bacon butty and coffee which can be hard to find particularly at unmanned stations. We had a local cafe running a mobile trolley at peak times supplying a small range of comestibles. Very welcome, particularly in Winter at our local station.

 

[pdeaves]

Hi everyone, for a uni competition project， I need to design something for the current train station, we all know that the epidemic had a big impact on train traffic and I want to understand what people need more in a train station after the epidemic so that it can bring back the passengers like before. What needs to be improved or added?

I would like to make the time people spend commuting my focus.

If I understand you correctly, you want to provide something to increase passenger numbers, but also commuters are your primary focus. Within this constraint, I am not convinced there is anything you can do. Commuting is dictated more by external factors (can I work at home? Do I have to travel at all?). It's the leisure market that needs focus now; the days of the commuter/season ticket holder being the prime focus are over. You allude to leisure in mentioning luggage.

 

[zwk500]

Unfortunately, the most important thing that will bring back passengers is an on-time train. I'm not sure what you can produce within your parameters that would fix the problems currently preventing that.

 

[andrew749]

If you're thinking about station facilities rather than the trains themselves, here are some thoughts:

• People don't like sitting on benches next to strangers unless there's no other option
• People generally pick a strategic place to wait, within sight of a departure board/screen
• Of the waiting rooms that were closed during the height of the pandemic, some still haven't reopened

 

[Mattyboy]

I do see where you're coming from, but you will very likely find some routes where the seats just naturally fill up from the first station onwards and everyone is getting off at the same destination (e.g. London Bridge or Charing Cross from Tunbridge Wells and the rest of the Hastings line). These routes don't have reservable seats and there's no way of finding out who is staying on longer without actually going up to someone and saying "excuse me but I am travelling to London, are you too and if not can I have your seat?" It just wouldn't catch on, especially if you are both reasonably fit and healthy adults. LNER has it right here in my opinion by allowing walk-up reservations up to 5 minutes before boarding so that if there are reservable seats free you'd be able to get one confirmed before getting on the train. Then, it is much more reasonable to ask someone to give up the seat for you, as you have reserved it.

In terms of why some people don't sit but lean on a pole or sit on luggage, a few reasons come to mind:
1) Not actually that many benches/seats on the platform and certainly not at peak commuter times
2) Commuters tend to know where they need to stand for the exits they want, so if there's a pole or something nearby they'll lean on that
3) Not convinced sitting down helps with the tiredness - I stand sometimes in the morning or walk instead of getting the bus if I feel like I need to wake up a bit!
4) Sitting on luggage - this is probably not aimed at commuter times? But again sometimes for reasons above or just convenience/may want to let someone else take one of the seats that are available.

What makes waiting times less arduous for me is having more facilities - I really don't like having to wait half an hour for my next Enfield train at Seven Sisters, but it's not so bad at Liverpool Street as I can get a drink/snack/wonder round the shops if I'm too bored - plus there's just more going on in general.

There is a lot of other things that I'm sure others will add at some point.

Oh, and welcome to the forum

Hi BJames, thank you for your comment
In fact some of the reasons you named were mentioned in the interviews I did with people. I learnt through the interview that many people actually want to sit down and there is a high demand for seats, but due to space issues, there is no way to provide too many benches for people to sit down at the train station, and the government does not want people to stay too long at the station. I wanted to focus more on the long commute because I have tried to get from Cambridge to London for a uni interview in the morning rush hour and then from London back to Cambridge on the train in the evening peak time and although it was only once, it was unforgettable because standing on a train for 45 minutes is very unpleasant and I can't imagine how exhausting it is for people who commute by train every day. I wanted to show more sympathy for these types of people, who are often overlooked by others.

In my personal observations I have also noticed that at stations there are many people who look tired and don't want to sit on a bench, lean on a post or some surface when there is an empty seat, I wonder why, but through the interviews I found that almost 40% of people tend to lean on an object for reasons such as not wanting to take off their backpack, leaving quickly, not wanting to sit with strangers, etc.

 

[Mattyboy]

Do you have any budgetary parameters to work to? Unplanned delays are the biggest problem for me using the railway. Warm waiting areas with information services would be good but thats big money.

I find most problems at stations are invariably made better by a bacon butty and coffee which can be hard to find particularly at unmanned stations. We had a local cafe running a mobile trolley at peak times supplying a small range of comestibles. Very welcome, particularly in Winter at our local station.

Hi Ken X, thank you for your comment
For this project, we are only going to provide an idea, but we also have to consider its realizability, and of course it is right to think about the budget, it is not very realistic to spend too much on improvements. I'm now targeting Category A stations, which are the larger stations like King's Cross, that get more traffic, because it's relatively obvious that there are problems and help me to do first-hand research.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2022 ==

If I understand you correctly, you want to provide something to increase passenger numbers, but also commuters are your primary focus. Within this constraint, I am not convinced there is anything you can do. Commuting is dictated more by external factors (can I work at home? Do I have to travel at all?). It's the leisure market that needs focus now; the days of the commuter/season ticket holder being the prime focus are over. You allude to leisure in mentioning luggage.

Hi Pdeaves, thank your for your comment
Yes, you are right. But I was wondering what else people could do to enhance their waiting experience while waiting for trains, other than passing time in the surrounding shopping areas or doing other things.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2022 ==

Unfortunately, the most important thing that will bring back passengers is an on-time train. I'm not sure what you can produce within your parameters that would fix the problems currently preventing that.

Hi zwk500, thank you for your comment
I totally agree with that, I think there is no way to avoid train delays and I am now thinking of ways to make the waiting experience better for people who are waiting for delayed trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2022 ==

If you're thinking about station facilities rather than the trains themselves, here are some thoughts:

• People don't like sitting on benches next to strangers unless there's no other option
• People generally pick a strategic place to wait, within sight of a departure board/screen
• Of the waiting rooms that were closed during the height of the pandemic, some still haven't reopened

Hi andrew749, thank you for your comment
Yes, I am now concentrating my focus on the station facilities.
Creating a product at the train station that would enhance the waiting experience,the public transport experience.
in the long term make the use of public transportation very attractive. to transform that waiting wasteful moment of time into a moment of quality time, when you can reflect on the things you’ve done that day at work and make a transition to the things you’ll do at home or at sports.

 

[Ken X]

Hi Matty, Had a further think and having spent far too much time at airports you may be able to take some ideas from the aviation industry. Aviation is by its nature a lot of "hurry up and wait". A departure lounge has temperature control, loads of seating, plenty of infoscreens, toilets, retail, food outlets, toddler play areas, information desks with real people etc. There are separate lounges for those prepared to pay a bit more. Further seating is provided at the gate before boarding.

Not all these are transferable to rail but it is definitely a more pleasant experience than most main line stations.

The cost model is, of course, completely different. Airlines pay an Airport all sorts of fees to provide these services and there are further income streams from parking, retail unit rent and others.

It would be interesting if a TOC paid a station a fee per train or per passenger to use a station and each station was a cost base if and how it would change passenger experience.

("Don's tin hat and awaits incoming fire from much more informed parties" )

 

[pdeaves]

It would be interesting if a TOC paid a station a fee per train or per passenger to use a station and each station was a cost base

It doesn't work exactly like that but station access contracts (one TOC stopping at another TOC's station) already use that general principle. That's not to say it can't be refined.

 

[andrew749]

Hi andrew749, thank you for your comment
Yes, I am now concentrating my focus on the station facilities.
Creating a product at the train station that would enhance the waiting experience,the public transport experience.
in the long term make the use of public transportation very attractive. to transform that waiting wasteful moment of time into a moment of quality time, when you can reflect on the things you’ve done that day at work and make a transition to the things you’ll do at home or at sports.

In order to make best use of the space, it wouldn't just be for commuters at the end of their working day. You would have to consider the needs of people setting out on business trips and leisure travel throughout the day. Perhaps there should be two separate areas: a business zone and a family zone (and potentially with a zone for general travellers in between).

 

[Ken H]

In order to make best use of the space, it wouldn't just be for commuters at the end of their working day. You would have to consider the needs of people setting out on business trips and leisure travel throughout the day. Perhaps there should be two separate areas: a business zone and a family zone (and potentially with a zone for general travellers in between).

Ypu also have to consider that railway stations tend to attract less desireable non-passengers. Rough sleepers seeking some warmth, or even somewhere to sleep, or kids just congregating. You provide a waiting room with free access and will have that problem, and rail passengers will end up not using it. How you control access I dont know.

 

[Ken X]

This has always been a problem at airports with their numerous stairwells, corridors etc. Fortunately eight heavily armed police officers rocking up usually sorted the situation.

Sometimes in summer the number of sleeping people in the terminal building in the early hours turned it into a replica of Custers Last Stand and the police were regularly waking up people to check tickets and confirm their need to be on site.

 

[zwk500]

Hi Ken X, thank you for your comment
For this project, we are only going to provide an idea, but we also have to consider its realizability, and of course it is right to think about the budget, it is not very realistic to spend too much on improvements. I'm now targeting Category A stations, which are the larger stations like King's Cross, that get more traffic, because it's relatively obvious that there are problems and help me to do first-hand research.

Yes, you are right. But I was wondering what else people could do to enhance their waiting experience while waiting for trains, other than passing time in the surrounding shopping areas or doing other things.

I totally agree with that, I think there is no way to avoid train delays and I am now thinking of ways to make the waiting experience better for people who are waiting for delayed trains.

Yes, I am now concentrating my focus on the station facilities.
Creating a product at the train station that would enhance the waiting experience,the public transport experience.
in the long term make the use of public transportation very attractive. to transform that waiting wasteful moment of time into a moment of quality time, when you can reflect on the things you’ve done that day at work and make a transition to the things you’ll do at home or at sports.

For the larger stations where there may be more waiting around the critical piece of information will be what time boarding opens. Therefore perhaps one suggestion would be an app/plugin linked to RTT where you tell it which train you want and it can give a push notification when the inbound service arrives into the platform. If I'm in the Parcel Yard, a notification that I've got about 10 minutes to finish my pint and to keep an eye on the departure board for the platform will be very welcome indeed. Even more bonus points if you can link it to the PIS system and get the push notification when the platform is actually called as well.

For smaller stations the key would be in providing waiting shelters that keep the wind out. For the big stations that don't have boarding times like Victoria and Waterloo the only things that really need to happen are to keep passengers waiting for their trains to show on the board in a central area so that people who already have their trains can move around the station freely.

 

[LUYMun]

• Of the waiting rooms that were closed during the height of the pandemic, some still haven't reopened

Also to mention that some waiting rooms are within ticket offices, which have limited opening hours so they will be locked at other times. Addlestone springs to mind.