Problems at Ore

[43066]

I’m on the 18.26 Cannon Street to Ore, which is only going as far as Hastings tonight.

The train manager has said that trains cannot terminate at Ore “due to an operational incident still under investigation.”

I don’t think anyone understood what that meant.

In fairness to the TM that’s an accurate announcement which concisely conveys the necessary information.

If he’d said “Trains cannot terminate at Ore due to destructive testing of signalling equipment which is being undertaken to investigate a wrong side failure leading to a double SPAD indication.”

I doubt anyone would have understood what that meant, either!

 

[ComUtoR]

"double SPAD indication.”

Stating that it was a double SPAD is obfuscating the truth. That should read 'A Driver passing two signals that were displaying red aspects'

 

[43066]

Stating that it was a double SPAD is obfuscating the truth. That should read 'A Driver passing two signals that were displaying red aspects'

Or in this case “signals that should have been displaying red aspects, but were actually displaying proceed aspects”.

 

[GB]

Or in this case “signals that should have been displaying red aspects, but were actually displaying proceed aspects”.

The allegation has not yet been proven or disproven.

 

[221129]

Stating that it was a double SPAD is obfuscating the truth. That should read 'A Driver passing two signals that were displaying red aspects'

Or in this case “signals that should have been displaying red aspects, but were actually displaying proceed aspects”.

Allegedly!

 

[MarkyT]

On Relay Interlockings data logging has generally been installed but potentially at Ore being a modified mechanical box (Hastings i believe) it might not be installed. Note data logging comes built in with modern electronic signalling.

Correct. That is why the signals on the diagram are prefixed EDL, the old Southern colour light prefix code for the box. Hastings has a large mechanical lever frame that at one time presumably controlled a much more complex layout at Hastings station. The Ore area was added to the Hastings frame using levers that would otherwise have become spare when the station layout was simplified. The basic interlocking is accomplished mechanically, with the results transmitted via multicore cabling to the electric point machines and colour light signals in the Ore station area. It is perfectly feasible theoretically to connect up a multichannel data logger to the primary relays of such a setup, just as in a wholly relay-based interlocking, but I have no idea whether that is the case here. One practical problem in doing that is if shelf type relays are employed, there are sometimes no spare contacts available, as ideally you use voltage free contacts for the logger. The older shelf types usually only have 2 changeover and two front contacts whereas plug-in miniatures (930 series) have up to 16 contacts variously arranged. Making up repeat relays just to allow logging involves more complex design and can defeat the object if you're introducing more complexity and no longer monitoring the primary functions.

 

[Scott M]

If they can’t find anything wrong will the driver get reprimanded?

If so I can imagine the unions calling for all trains to be fitted with front-facing cameras in future.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If they can’t find anything wrong will the driver get reprimanded?

If so I can imagine the unions calling for all trains to be fitted with front-facing cameras in future.

All recent trains have cameras and i believe some of Southerns later Electrostars have them. I also thought NR were funding retrofitting of cameras as they are invaluable in these situations as well as many others where a clear image leaves no doubt what the situation was.

 

[TrainGeekUK]

Southern website says this will be ongoing until further notice.. must be a really complex issue to resolve.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Destructive can just mean you need to unscrew a wire from terminal not necessarily break anything.

Maybe they should use the term deconstructive testing ?

 

[hwl]

Maybe they should use the term deconstructive testing ?

It can also involve destruction hence destructive covers both destruction and deconstruction

 

[SilentGrade]

All equipment now signed back into use

 

[swt_passenger]

Maybe they should use the term deconstructive testing ?

I’d use “intrusive”. Destructive sounds too permanent.

 

[Meerkat]

I’d use “intrusive”. Destructive sounds too permanent.

That sounds unwelcome for the driver!

 

[Bald Rick]

I’d use “intrusive”. Destructive sounds too permanent.

Some of it is permanent, very!