Problem With SailRail Refund

[SailRail]

I booked a SailRail with Arriva Trains Wales. Due to inclement weather Irish Ferries have had to cancel the Jonathan Swift Fast Ferry and are offering the option of transferring onto Ulysses. However, this travels very late at night and (a)will get me back too late; (b)would require me to spend a significant amount of money on a hotel.

I've found that Stenaline offer an alternative solution which, although it gets me back later than originally planned it would still be a better option.

I rang Arriva Trains Wales asking could I switch the ticket to Stenaline, I was told no. I then asked could I get a refund, I was told it was a non refundable ticket. I said I understood that, however, that should only apply in the case that I am not able to travel myself. In this scenario they have sold me a travel solution that they are no longer providing. They told me to contact Irish Ferries.

Irish Ferries were very apologetic, but explained that, as I had booked the ticket through Arriva Trains Wales I now have to claim a refund through them. They told me they would have provided me with a refund had I booked it through them however, and told me that I should demand a refund from Arriva Trains Wales. However, Arriva were adamant that they would not refund me.

I don't need to tell anyone that (I didn't know this at the time but I do now) when you book a ticket through Arriva Trains Wales you are actually booking it through thetrainline even though the website is Arriva's.

My questions therefore are (a)what recourse do I have to demand a refund from Arriva/thetrainline - surely there is some consumer legislation?; (b)does anyone know how, in the future, I can book directly with Irish Ferries/Stenaline? Irish Ferries allow this from the Irish side but they seem to point you in the direction of the train companies on the UK side. After this experience I don't want anything to do with thetrainline again.

 

[34D]

In the small print of the email acknowledgement/receipt/any tickets sent by post, what company does it state you have contracted with?

I would send a letter with a photocopy of the tickets, formally requesting a refund.

 

[SailRail]

In the small print of the email acknowledgement/receipt/any tickets sent by post, what company does it state you have contracted with?

I would send a letter with a photocopy of the tickets, formally requesting a refund.

It doesn't actually say anything like that but the email is this:

Journey Information
Getting your tickets: Self-Service Ticket Machine
Collection reference: ********

Tickets will be available to pick-up from a self-service ticket machine at any one of 1000 UK stations 2 hours after booking.

When you go to collect your tickets you will need:

Your collection reference: ********
The payment card you used to purchase the ticket (number ending ****).

Without both of the above you will not be able to collect your tickets.
Journey 2: DUBLIN PORT (IRISH FERRIES) to ************
Travel on Sunday 15 September 2013
Departs Arrives By Reservations
14:30 - Dublin Port (Irish Ferries) 16:30 - Holyhead Ferry (ARRIVA TRAINS WALES) Reserved - no seat allocated.
17:30 - Holyhead **:** - ************ Train (ARRIVA TRAINS WALES) Coach: C Seat: 24A
**:** - ************ **:** - ************ Train (ARRIVA TRAINS WALES) Reservation not requested.
*The passenger is free to sit in any unreserved seat for the class of travel specified on the ticket
Ticket details

Passengers: 1 Adult(s)

Ticket Type: SAILRAIL ADVANCE

Route: This ticket is only valid via Holyhead and Swift.​

I've put ************ just to maintain privacy on a public forum but you can take them as having concrete times/destinations.

 

[1E05]

As your ticket states 'advance', Arriva are correct in saying that the ticket is non-refundable since they haven't cancelled their part of the journey.

I would follow the instructions by the above poster and if you aren't able to obtain a refund, go to Passenger Focus.

 

[CallySleeper]

Hi SailRail, welcome to UKRail.

I would probably give thetrainline.com a call in the first instance to explain what's happened. According to brfares.com, a refund in the normal manner should be available since your sailing was cancelled. (I don't know where you travelled to so I've used Crewe in this case, but it's irrelevant). I would do this A.S.A.P., at least before the scheduled departure on your ticket.

I refer you to thetrainline's Ts&Cs, about half way down. You should be able to send your tickets back to them and apply for a refund, but confirm this with the website first.

In future, as unfortunately you've experienced, I'd steer well clear of thetrainline.com for all tickets, let alone rail & sail.

You can book R&S online at stenaline.co.uk or irishferries.com, and your tickets are sent to you or you can pick them up. However with IF, not only do you pay in euro but you also have an admin fee as well so the total amount you pay is slightly more than the GBP equivalent.

I've had the pleasure of using this method of travel many times, and in my experience other than the few times I've sailed with IF from Dublin Port, I've always bought my tickets from a UK rail station. I've found this to be the easiest method as it means I make sure I get what I want, and there's no mistakes (although some ticket clerks are more experienced/knowledgeable about this than others!) Fortunately too I've never been in the position whereby I've needed to cancel or request a refund on one and I'm sorry that this has happened to you (also that the weather doesn't appear to be with you today!) My girlfriend is S&R across the north channel this evening and I'm hoping there won't be any problems!

 

[SailRail]

Hi SailRail, welcome to UKRail.

I would probably give thetrainline.com a call in the first instance to explain what's happened. According to brfares.com, a refund in the normal manner should be available since your sailing was cancelled. (I don't know where you travelled to so I've used Crewe in this case, but it's irrelevant). I would do this A.S.A.P., at least before the scheduled departure on your ticket.

I refer you to thetrainline's Ts&Cs, about half way down. You should be able to send your tickets back to them and apply for a refund, but confirm this with the website first.

In future, as unfortunately you've experienced, I'd steer well clear of thetrainline.com for all tickets, let alone rail & sail.

You can book R&S online at stenaline.co.uk or irishferries.com, and your tickets are sent to you or you can pick them up. However with IF, not only do you pay in euro but you also have an admin fee as well so the total amount you pay is slightly more than the GBP equivalent.

I've had the pleasure of using this method of travel many times, and in my experience other than the few times I've sailed with IF from Dublin Port, I've always bought my tickets from a UK rail station. I've found this to be the easiest method as it means I make sure I get what I want, and there's no mistakes (although some ticket clerks are more experienced/knowledgeable about this than others!) Fortunately too I've never been in the position whereby I've needed to cancel or request a refund on one and I'm sorry that this has happened to you (also that the weather doesn't appear to be with you today!) My girlfriend is S&R across the north channel this evening and I'm hoping there won't be any problems!

Thanks. In the end the only solution that transpired was to take the switch onto the late (SLOW!) ferry. I'm finally where I need to be but I do find it annoying that:

(a)We were switched onto a CHEAPER vessel;
(b)Made to travel at very awkward times.
(c)We lost the rail part of our ticket because it was only valid for yesterday and we arrived after midnight so it would have been invalid;
(d)We had to fork out for a hotel as there was no train to meet the late ship;
(e)Nobody at any stage felt the need to even apologise for us, and we weren't alone, being left unduly tired and out-of-pocket.

I understand safety must take priority and it would have been extremely dangerous for the flimsy Jonathan Swift to have sailed last night, but I do think the law needs to be changed that in these situations hotel and food expenses caused by delays of over 8 hours should be met by the ferry/train companies. It fills me with a certain sense of dread that I have to do the same journey every weekend for a year and so will be at their mercy time and time again.

I hope your girlfriend didn't have the same problems.

 

[reb0118]

(c)We lost the rail part of our ticket because it was only valid for yesterday and we arrived after midnight so it would have been invalid

How so? As you have a connecting or through ticket and have been unavoidably delayed en route by one of the undertaking parties then you are allowed to complete your journey to the destination shown on your ticket ~ without further charge.

As an aside you mentioned previously the stena route as being more beneficial to you after the Swift was cancelled. Would it have been easier to buy a new "rte stena" ticket and fight for a refund on your "rte Irish Ferries" ticket at a later date. Even if no refund was forthcoming it may have been cheaper than the cost of a hotel and the extra faffing about. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

That said, I do have great sympathy for your predicament. The boat trains have been running for nigh over 160 years you would have thought by now that there would be procedures put in place to deal with missed connections, and if so that these procedures should be made known to the passengers (& staff on the ground).

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The refund arrangements for SailRail tickets are clearly shown in the Fares Manual, and you should ask Arriva to check this.

It states:

"Refunds

For tickets issued in the UK: Standard refund procedures apply:

Advance – No refunds unless the ferry leg has been cancelled.

Walk up – Normal refund conditions apply.

In the event of operational problems a full refund should be granted.

Tickets issued in Ireland are not refundable; passengers are advised to seek a refund from Irish Rail."

 

[Flying Snail]

As an aside you mentioned previously the stena route as being more beneficial to you after the Swift was cancelled. Would it have been easier to buy a new "rte stena" ticket and fight for a refund on your "rte Irish Ferries" ticket at a later date. Even if no refund was forthcoming it may have been cheaper than the cost of a hotel and the extra faffing about. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

That would have been the best course of action. Quite obviously their assertation that they wouldn't issue a refund on the original tickets was nonsense. The were unable to uphold their end of the contract and the only reasonable course would be to refund the ticket. As kwvr45 posted it is in fact the official line to do so. Even if it were not there is no way that they would have been able to defend a SCC action.

That said, I do have great sympathy for your predicament. The boat trains have been running for nigh over 160 years you would have thought by now that there would be procedures put in place to deal with missed connections, and if so that these procedures should be made known to the passengers (& staff on the ground).

Before the numbers using the links collapsed with the rise in low fares airlines the through passenger procedures were much better organised than they now are. These days they are little more than add-ons to the rail and ferry companies main business models, this can clearly be seen with the contempt ATW show with their intentionally timetabled non-connections at Holyhead.

Of course in those days there were no cancellation-prone fast ferries and despite the conventional ferries being a fraction of the size of those used today they rarely cancelled sailings due to weather. Many a hairy trip was had and I can tell you from personal experience that a night sleeping rough in Holyhead would probably have been preferable to the 6 hour night crossing in a force 11 I had as a youngster. Me, my father (a man with a mortal fear of heights but no propensity to seasickness) and about 2 thousand projectile-vomiting drunkards who appeared to stop puking only long enough to down another pint of Guinness in the bar.

 

[SailRail]

I believe, as I chose to use the sailing alternative in the end, that I wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on this time. Its good to know the official line would be that they would have to refund me in future though so thanks for that .

I'll be making the same journey for the next few weeks so hopefully there won't be further problems. After that I will be working nearer to two airports so hopefully I won't need the ferry too often. They can shove all their "its easier by ferry" style advertising, where possible its the plane for me. And the rail connections to the airports are better too!

 

[Deerfold]

I believe, as I chose to use the sailing alternative in the end, that I wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on this time. Its good to know the official line would be that they would have to refund me in future though so thanks for that .

I'll be making the same journey for the next few weeks so hopefully there won't be further problems. After that I will be working nearer to two airports so hopefully I won't need the ferry too often. They can shove all their "its easier by ferry" style advertising, where possible its the plane for me. And the rail connections to the airports are better too!

It may still be worth following up with ATW that you were given incorrect advice about a refund though, which may help you if you wish to change anything in the future.