Priv to work

[ItchyRsole]

Hi.

Two part question.

Can anyone give a definitive reason why staff cannot use a priv rate to travel to work? I've never understood why not. What's the difference between going from A to B on a day off or to work?

Secondly if for example, I was starting work at 12 midday and was in uniform but had to go to B to see my daughter 2-3 hours before work for a catch up. I could legally buy a priv is that correct? The rules state one cannot travel to work, I would not be travelling to work. Again, grey area.

Thanks.

 

[reb0118]

Can anyone give a definitive reason why staff cannot use a priv rate to travel to work?

You can. It's called a priv rate season ticket. 75% discount on public rate & possibly a residential allowance on top too, if eligible. Minimum term one month.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Short Answer: Because those are the rules under which Travel Facilities are granted.

Should it be discovered that a breach has occurred, all travel facilities are suspended (for the entire family where an employee is directly involved) pending the outcome of an investigation by RSTL. Your employer would be notified of this, and of the outcome and sanction to be applied (which could be permanent withdrawal of all leisure travel facilities), and could also initiate their own disciplinary proceedings.

tl;dr Don't try it. You could get sacked if caught.

 

[ItchyRsole]

You can. It's called a priv rate season ticket. 75% discount on public rate & possibly a residential allowance on top too, if eligible. Minimum term one month.

Wrong mate. My brother works for Eurostar & as not regarded as a TOC this does not apply. I live in the zones so not an issue. He's 45 miles outside London. Not cheap. Why should he pay the same as a member of the public? For me that's wrong.

 

[ItchyRsole]

Short Answer: Because those are the rules under which Travel Facilities are granted.

Should it be discovered that a breach has occurred, all travel facilities are suspended (for the entire family where an employee is directly involved) pending the outcome of an investigation by RSTL. Your employer would be notified of this, and of the outcome and sanction to be applied (which could be permanent withdrawal of all leisure travel facilities), and could also initiate their own disciplinary proceedings.

tl;dr Don't try it. You could get sacked if caught.

I think you read my initial post wrong. If someone was going somewhere 2-3 hours before work, you are not traveling to work. You would be traveling from somewhere else to get to work & paying from that place accordingly.

Grey area.

 

[Phil.]

Priv (privilege) travel is what it says on the tin. It's not a right granted to rail staff for travel, it's a privilege and is only available for leisure travel except for season tickets bought at the granted rate.
ItchyRsole the scenario you are describing in your second paragraph is not a grey area, it's perfectly "legal" from a privilege travel point.

 

[bb21]

In your second case, I think undoubtedly if you bought a separate ticket to your daughter's place, and another one from there to work, the first one is eligible for priv discount.

Realistically speaking, it is unlikely that anyone will get fussy on the odd occasion. The problem you have is that if you do that all the time, ticket office staff may recognise you. While most staff would probably keep schtum about a follow railwayman doing something that is not strictly permitted, you always run the risk of someone who sticks rigidly to the rules, and you really do not want to be reported for something like this.

For residential travel, surely it is cheaper to buy a priv season(?). RSTL can be pretty flexible in terms of what they approve so if you have differing travel requirements for different days, they may well approve something that is valid for the different journeys you make, as long as you make your situation clear to them.

 

[gordonthemoron]

mate got done for this in the 80s, HR just gave him some free tickets until he'd moved out of his parents house

 

[BestWestern]

Only a few days ago I was told of a Revenue Protection bod who tackled a uniformed staff member from another TOC who was travelling home (off their route). They were instructed to buy a ticket, at full price, and words were apparently uttered about possibly being reported.

I wouldn't take the risk of being grassed up, personally.... Having said that, if you do work for a TOC (and are friendly with Guards), there is the possibility of having a colleague issue your tickets (perfectly legal) and so avoid regular visits to a suspicious ticket clerk, and then travelling in/out dressed in civvies. Who's to say what your journey is before and after you leave the train?!

Just a thought, of course...

 

[35B]

Wrong mate. My brother works for Eurostar & as not regarded as a TOC this does not apply. I live in the zones so not an issue. He's 45 miles outside London. Not cheap. Why should he pay the same as a member of the public? For me that's wrong.

Because he's the same as any other commuter. If Eurostar won't provide the facility, that's about how they want to pay their staff.

Whether employees of different companies on the railways should be treated differently is a different question, about the structure of privatisation. That doesn't seem relevant here.

 

[tsr]

As I recently posted on another thread, I'm pretty sure there's an easement somewhere which allows for up to 14 days' commuting on PRIV day tickets before a season has to be bought. I simply can't find the document but I now seem to remember reading it no later than about 6 months ago. It was on the ATOC website, I think.

So, a lesson for anyone (myself sometimes included) responsible for enforcement: tread carefully. If that document is still out there, it does give extra flexibility.

 

[Llanigraham]

Wrong mate. My brother works for Eurostar & as not regarded as a TOC this does not apply. I live in the zones so not an issue. He's 45 miles outside London. Not cheap. Why should he pay the same as a member of the public? For me that's wrong.

Bluntly; tough, sunshine, welcome to the real world!!
You do realise that an awful lot of railway workers, like I was, also don't get free or discounted travel?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Bluntly; tough, sunshine, welcome to the real world!!
You do realise that an awful lot of railway workers, like I was, also don't get free or discounted travel?

Which is also very wrong (imho)

 

[miami]

How do the tax implications with with priv fares? Do you pay income tax on the discount, or is it treated more like company cars?

 

[LowLevel]

Bluntly; tough, sunshine, welcome to the real world!!
You do realise that an awful lot of railway workers, like I was, also don't get free or discounted travel?

How could he fail to realise, you never miss an opportunity to tell us chief

And yes, it is wrong

 

[Mag_seven]

How could he fail to realise, you never miss an opportunity to tell us chief

And yes, it is wrong

And where where the unions when this ridiculous situation came about?

 

[91104]

Hi.

Two part question.

Can anyone give a definitive reason why staff cannot use a priv rate to travel to work? I've never understood why not. What's the difference between going from A to B on a day off or to work?

Secondly if for example, I was starting work at 12 midday and was in uniform but had to go to B to see my daughter 2-3 hours before work for a catch up. I could legally buy a priv is that correct? The rules state one cannot travel to work, I would not be travelling to work. Again, grey area.

Thanks.

I am in a similar situation in that I'm safeguarded so get free residential travel to a big London terminal station but work at another London terminal station so have to get a tube between the two. I also have a priv rate Oyster card but it's meant to be for leisure use only and I'm expected to buy a zone 1-2 priv rate season even though taking into account holidays,rest days,booking on at the depot so not requiring to use the tube or driving in I would on average only use a season ticket maybe 2-3 times a week on average it don't seem worth it so just use my priv oyster anyway and had no problems.

 

[matt_world2004]

The vtec season ticket privs for tfl staff are not to be used for work related or leisure travel.

 

[najaB]

The vtec season ticket privs for tfl staff are not to be used for work related or leisure travel.

If they're not for work or leisure what are they for? :-?

 

[matt_world2004]

Commuting only I believe so cannot be used beyond travelling to a primary work location.

 

[najaB]

Commuting only I believe so cannot be used beyond travelling to a primary work location.

Ah, okay. I was taking commuting as being work-related (in that it's how you get to work).

 

[Elecman]

How do the tax implications with with priv fares? Do you pay income tax on the discount, or is it treated more like company cars?

If you work for a TOC there is no Benefit in Kind implication as your employer has not bought the free travel, for Safeguarded. Safeguarded staff not working for a TOC there is a Benefit in Kind Tax to pay as our employers have had to buy the travel facility from RSTL.

A crazy situation that did not exist in BR days

 

[ItchyRsole]

Thanks all. Some food for thought.

Also for the person who posted about the TFL priv rate. I saw an email today saying the terms are changing and can be used for work or leisure travel. No more oyster priv seasons apparently. I'll have a proper read of it when I go back in to work.

 

[455driver]

And where where the unions when this ridiculous situation came about?

They are all ex BR so don't give a stuff!

The Unions take the same subs off us newbies (TOCNE) but wont even try and get us the same privileges that they get, don't forget that any TOCNE staff that retire only keep their privs until the end of the franchise when they lose the lot!

Oh and I think it sucks that NR staff don't get anything as well.

 

[35B]

If you work for a TOC there is no Benefit in Kind implication as your employer has not bought the free travel, for Safeguarded. Safeguarded staff not working for a TOC there is a Benefit in Kind Tax to pay as our employers have had to buy the travel facility from RSTL.

A crazy situation that did not exist in BR days

Really? As my company car benefit in kind is calculated based on list price, not fleet purchase price, I'm surprised that priv for TOC staff doesn't attract tax based on the value of the perk to the employee.

 

[bb21]

If they're not for work or leisure what are they for? :-?

Travel falls into one of three categories: residential (home - work), duty (work purposes) and leisure (anything else). The line can be blurry in many cases, such as the one posted by the OP.

As I recently posted on another thread, I'm pretty sure there's an easement somewhere which allows for up to 14 days' commuting on PRIV day tickets before a season has to be bought. I simply can't find the document but I now seem to remember reading it no later than about 6 months ago. It was on the ATOC website, I think.

So, a lesson for anyone (myself sometimes included) responsible for enforcement: tread carefully. If that document is still out there, it does give extra flexibility.

There should be such an easement as the application can take up to 14 days to be approved by RSTL depending on the type, potentially causing issues for a new starter.

That is also the reason why I think in the short term, as long as one treads carefully, it should not be an issue, but in the long run, probably not a good idea.

How do the tax implications with with priv fares? Do you pay income tax on the discount, or is it treated more like company cars?

Network Rail staff get taxed on their priv season. No additional tax burden on TOC staff AIUI.

How could he fail to realise, you never miss an opportunity to tell us chief

And yes, it is wrong

... to the extent that whenever I see him popping up in a thread discussing staff travel, I know what he was gonna say.

But yes, it is quite wrong imo that people looking after the infrastructure of our railways get a much reduced level of subsidised travel. It just doesn't sit easily with me, especially when you work with these guys in the same office.

And where where the unions when this ridiculous situation came about?

Getting their existing members the best deals they could while giving all others two fingers I guess.

 

[Elecman]

Really? As my company car benefit in kind is calculated based on list price, not fleet purchase price, I'm surprised that priv for TOC staff doesn't attract tax based on the value of the perk to the employee.

That is because your employer is paying for your car and you are benefitting from that, the TOCS don't buy the staff travel facilities as they just give them gratis so ther is no benefit in kind, hence why another poster above has stated that NR staff have to pay tax on their safegaurded travel as NR has to buy the facility from RSTL.

 

[Phil.]

Air Traffic Controllers don't get reduced rate travel on airlines - why should P-way people get reduced rate travel on the trains? neither can run without the other.

 

[Sleepy]

They are all ex BR so don't give a stuff!

The Unions take the same subs off us newbies (TOCNE) but wont even try and get us the same privileges that they get, don't forget that any TOCNE staff that retire only keep their privs until the end of the franchise when they lose the lot!

Oh and I think it sucks that NR staff don't get anything as well.

These ex - BR I'm all right types are now starting to retire so perhaps travel facilities for TOCNE will start to rise up unions agenda !

 

[87015]

These ex - BR I'm all right types are now starting to retire so perhaps travel facilities for TOCNE will start to rise up unions agenda !

It got quite close a few years ago through ATOC. The unions and most of the owning companies were largely inagreement, sadly one that has red and silver trains was strongly against it and won out. I expect it will be a long time before it gets back up to that level of support again.