Priv Holder, problems buying tickets

[richardderby]

i have the same retired TFL PTAC card, is there any chance in future we might get access to the RST online booking system at some point, it would make life easier..

 

[dodecahedron67]

Avanti’s machines are definitely able to issue cross-London tickets as ToD which would allow collection from Euston/Crewe/any TVM that issues to card stock.

It’s really not that hard at all, if any TM needed ‘teaching’ how to issue one then I think Avanti’s retail training is incredibly poor or the particular TM doesn’t care about revenue

 

[philthetube]

It is on the railway to provide ticketing facilities which allow you to buy tickets.

If they choose not to, and don't equip their staff with the requisite equipment to sell you your ticket either, then that is not your problem.

You're doing the right thing, and you should be putting in a complaint to Avanti about how you were treated at Crewe gateline multiple times.

To be fair I was only treated badly at Crewe once, and it is too long ago to be able to complain now.

This really does seem like an impossible situation. You are doing nothing wrong and everything right. You will unable to purchase your ticket online as you are former London Underground staff, you are offering to purchase on board but the staff are unable to print the ticket, you are reasonably not expected to miss a connection at Preston so are purchasing at the first available opportunity.

If Squires Gate has a ticket vending machine, start getting yourself a promise to pay. You shouldn't have to do this, but it just an extra insurance in case you come up against difficult staff, as you will have a printed authority to travel.

I thought about that but I feel unhappy lying about how I am going to pay, you are stating that you want to pay by cash and that is not true.

A promise to pay is not available to Canterbury in any case,

 

[Dstock7080]

Arrange access then? Either on a friend's computer or maybe using one in a public library...

LU staff/retirees do not have access and cannot apply.

i have the same retired TFL PTAC card, is there any chance in future we might get access to the RST online booking system at some point, it would make life easier..

Unfortunately not on the horizon, so @pitdiver @philthetube, myself etc are stuck with this.

 

[pitdiver]

Your post suggests that you might be somewhere between the two, so I’m not sure if it’s useful for you, but EMR Guards can sell tickets to a Ticket on Departure code, for redemption at a ticket machine. They can sell cross London tickets by this method.

I am between the two but I tend to use Mansfield B/O as I can get there free of charge as I have a ENCTS Buss Pass and Mansfield's bus Stn is right next door to the Railway station

 

[richardderby]

Unfortunately not on the horizon, so @pitdiver @philthetube, myself etc are stuck with this.

thank you for the update, there are a lot of TFL staff that would have helped...

 

[Adam Williams]

Unfortunately not on the horizon

What is the reason for this? It really doesn't seem like it should be a hard problem to solve.

 

[tutacre]

What is the reason for this? It really doesn't seem like it should be a hard problem to solve.

There is an RDG staff travel database (used to be managed by iBlocks or whoever owns them these days) I believe - and an API from that is what Worldline use for the booking portal.

However, I think for historical reasons (a lot of) legacy TfL staff are not in that specific database for administrative reasons and therefore the API cannot validate them. I have no evidence whatsoever, but most things like this come down to cost OR agreements dating back decades that nobody wants to reopen.

I don't think it's just TfL who has this problem - some heritage railways are entitled to the legacy PRIV documents, Irish Sea ferry companies, Eurostar etc - and as far as I'm aware, they have similar access constraints.

Or this was certainly the case a few years back.

 

[Jim]

In this thread, multiple people are coming up with options like buy in advance, go to somewhere with a computer, go to a different station, splitting trip to avoid CCST ticket requirements etc, why?

The customer wants to buy a ticket and go from A to B, when they start their journey, which is something the railway should enable them to do?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 10:12 ==

Not entirely relevant here, but GWR can sell tickets to ToD (Tickets on Departure) where you would exchange for a CCST ticket at an interchange point.

My local TOC has started doing this now, so that crew with only paper roll ticket stock can still sell a full range of tickets onboard.

Time however, on an all stops service, to fill it all out seems to be somewhat restrictive.

 

[LowLevel]

In this thread, multiple people are coming up with options like buy in advance, go to somewhere with a computer, go to a different station, splitting trip to avoid CCST ticket requirements etc, why?

The customer wants to buy a ticket and go from A to B, when they start their journey, which is something the railway should enable them to do?

Because clearly it is bothering them.

Personally I take the view that it's the railway's problem and stuff them, I assume the matter is barely considered by those in charge and they're just waiting for the PTAC holders to die out eventually, but I understand why it may be of concern.

I presume PTAC is administered by TfL rather than Rail Staff Travel hence the issues with having a login to the website, but that shouldn't be insurmountable you would have thought.

The guard used to be a pretty safe bet to get anything you couldn't get out of a TVM. The railway decided to mess it up by introducing a type of ticket that you can't use for all on-board sales.

 

[RPI]

In this thread, multiple people are coming up with options like buy in advance, go to somewhere with a computer, go to a different station, splitting trip to avoid CCST ticket requirements etc, why?

The customer wants to buy a ticket and go from A to B, when they start their journey, which is something the railway should enable them to do?

The OP is aware that they are more than entitled to board the train without a ticket in the circumstances but, understandably, they don't like being in that scenario, so we're offering a few ways to mitigate that.

 

[Jim]

The OP is aware that they are more than entitled to board the train without a ticket in the circumstances but, understandably, they don't like being in that scenario, so we're offering a few ways to mitigate that.

It is a shame the railway seems to make the OP have to fear enough to do that, imagine if that was a similar situation for someone who suffers from anxiety (as the OP might), the railway has suddenly made itself unattractive to the customer.

 

[bramling]

It is a shame the railway seems to make the OP have to fear enough to do that, imagine if that was a similar situation for someone who suffers from anxiety (as the OP might), the railway has suddenly made itself unattractive to the customer.

To be fair this is a very niche issue.

Another related one is what happens when you turn up at your station, booking office is closed (at a time when scheduled to be open), gateline staff grunt at you when you show them a PRIV. So if you buy a full-price ticket to get through the gateline it’s then a problem getting it changed as booking offices won’t then touch it.

 

[AndrewE]

To be fair this is a very niche issue.

but I agree that it is worrying, given the repeated ever-stronger warnings of removal of concessions for any infringement of the rules - and some of the ticket-checking staff's evident lack of knowledge.

Another related one is what happens when you turn up at your station, booking office is closed (at a time when scheduled to be open), gateline staff grunt at you when you show them a PRIV. So if you buy a full-price ticket to get through the gateline it’s then a problem getting it changed as booking offices won’t then touch it.

in which case is it worth buying the very cheapest public ticket you can find, maybe not even on your route, to act as a sort of promise to pay and mark the time and location that you started from?

 

[notspy]

I don't think Northern Have this enabled, it sounds as if from your post that Avanti do, I will ask if I am in the position again.

I believe Northern use the Zebra machines, I can't remember if they have this feature at all as I did not use it for that long.

I don't think all train operators have the ability to sell to generate a ToD reference on board enabled. Mine does, but I'd expect 99% of guards to have no idea how to do it or that it exists.

I had to show the Avanti TM how to do it, it's simple enough but quite rarely used so would expect most to not know about it/how to create them.

 

[MrJeeves]

in which case is it worth buying the very cheapest public ticket you can find, maybe not even on your route, to act as a sort of promise to pay and mark the time and location that you started from?

In my opinion, this is more likely to come across as doughnut ticketing/fare evasion and potentially even just confuse the situation more than just doing the "correct thing" which is nothing at all.

 

[bramling]

In my opinion, this is more likely to come across as doughnut ticketing/fare evasion and potentially even just confuse the situation more than just doing the "correct thing" which is nothing at all.

The problem with nothing at all is that you might not be able to get through the gateline (at least, not without breaching certain byelaws!).

In theory it might be possible to buy a ticket for part of the journey, to an equivalent value, but again this then introduces the issue of needing to exchange it for the right one. Booking offices don’t want to touch any ticket that’s been used. And it could still lead to issues getting through a gateline at the destination.

 

[AlterEgo]

but I agree that it is worrying, given the repeated ever-stronger warnings of removal of concessions for any infringement of the rules - and some of the ticket-checking staff's evident lack of knowledge.

in which case is it worth buying the very cheapest public ticket you can find, maybe not even on your route, to act as a sort of promise to pay and mark the time and location that you started from?

The OP can obtain a promise to pay from the TVM. The destination they choose isn't that relevant (and indeed you don't have to pick your *final* destination) as they are just using it to show where and when they boarded.

 

[philthetube]

To be fair this is a very niche issue.

Another related one is what happens when you turn up at your station, booking office is closed (at a time when scheduled to be open), gateline staff grunt at you when you show them a PRIV. So if you buy a full-price ticket to get through the gateline it’s then a problem getting it changed as booking offices won’t then touch it.

I don't think this is all the niche, it applies to anyone travelling cross London, although I didn't realise it before the priv does not affect the issues.

 

[Mainline421]

Couldn't the OP just carry cash and a promise to pay if the concern is simply putting their position beyond any dispute?

 

[OscarH]

I believe Northern use the Zebra machines, I can't remember if they have this feature at all as I did not use it for that long.

Zebra make generic hardware like scanners and printers, they don't make the validation and retail software that connect to it as far as I know - typically that's TTK, Masabi

 

[gray1404]

The Off Peak Return Squires Gate to Canterbury is £39.35 with PRIV. Not too high a value of money to carry these days. If the OP did not want to carry cash they could acquire through their next delay repay claim a (low value) Rail Travel Voucher to use as insurance when presenting a Promise to Pay. Although by virtue of having a Priv pass means they are entitled to buy that's the first available opportunity anyway.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Zebra make generic hardware like scanners and printers, they don't make the validation and retail software that connect to it as far as I know - typically that's TTK, Masabi

Off the top of my head, I believe Northern are in the process of switching from Fujitsu to Magellan (formerly Worldline) kit. Pretty sure both ttk and Magellan support selling tickets that can't be printed on PRT to TOD now.

 

[Haywain]

Pretty sure both ttk and Magellan support selling tickets that can't be printed on PRT to TOD now.

TTK has supported issuing to ToD for around 10 years, and there's no reason that the Worldline/Magellan kit can't do it.

 

[philthetube]

is it possible, and allowed for someone to post instructions on how to offer a TOD on here?

 

[gray1404]

Are TOCs reluctant to offer TOD due to the costs involved? For example, if the ticket was purchased from Northern but then collected from an Avanti machine, they would be a fulfillment fee.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Are TOCs reluctant to offer TOD due to the costs involved? For example, if the ticket was purchased from Northern but then collected from an Avanti machine, they would be a fulfillment fee.

I suspect it's more that it's something covered during training but subsequently forgotten if you don't do it regularly.

Plus it takes longer than a normal sale as you have to enter a customer name, postcode and (optionally) email address to set it up and you need to be somewhere you've got a network connection. Doing one in the middle of Totley Tunnel wouldn't work, for example.

 

[LowLevel]

I suspect it's more that it's something covered during training but subsequently forgotten if you don't do it regularly.

Plus it takes longer than a normal sale as you have to enter a customer name, postcode and (optionally) email address to set it up and you need to be somewhere you've got a network connection. Doing one in the middle of Totley Tunnel wouldn't work, for example.

Opposite problem, for the majority of staff it wasn't covered in training as it didn't exist at the time and refresher retail training is basically non existent except for periodical briefs that staff may or may not pay attention to and hardware changes. That and with the ever reducing number of direct ticket sales particularly onboard TOCs are dedicating less time to that side of training.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Opposite problem, for the majority of staff it wasn't covered in training as it didn't exist at the time and refresher retail training is basically non existent except for periodical briefs that staff may or may not pay attention to and hardware changes. That and with the ever reducing number of direct ticket sales particularly onboard TOCs are dedicating less time to that side of training.

We've had it since 2016 with TTK so is this on Envoy?

 

[LowLevel]

We've had it since 2016 with TTK so is this on Envoy?

Yeah. It was only switched on in the last year or two after some guards asked for it having become aware of it's existence.