Printed Timetable availability

[Steve Harris]

Brutally - Buy a printer. They don't cost that much. So many things are now "print at home". Old fashioned ink jets cost about £50. A basic laser one costs about £75.

Honestly , if i was in charge of a TOC I would bin printed timetables immediately. They are a waste of money, a waste of resource and wasteful from an environmental point of view.

Brutally - No one should be telling anyone what to do / buy.

What seems cheap to you may be expensive to someone else.

 

[ooo]

I prefer to travel light rather than carry a load of batteries, chargers and general rubbish around with me

So it would be better to carry round loads of paper then?

 

[DarloRich]

Brutally - No one should be telling anyone what to do / buy.

What seems cheap to you may be expensive to someone else.

chill out and try and relax. I haven't told anyone to buy anything. I simply point out that not having a printer is not a major obstacle when a new one can be picked up for a relatively modest price. Of course, for those on a budget, second hand options are available for much less. Alternatively libraries offer extensive IT facilities for a very modest or often no fee.


BTW - at some point, perhaps soon, the answer will be: No printer no timetable. You need to be ready to deal with that. However, If you want to strand yourself in the 19th century be my guest.

 

[ooo]

Perhaps as an alternative it could be possible to download timetable data in toc apps. This would solve the problems when there is no signal. The Czech Railways app has this feature with the ability to download most European countries including the UK

 

[DarloRich]

So it would be better to carry round loads of paper then?

We have all seen "enthusiasts" on the train or stations carting about carrier bags full of papers and stuff!

Perhaps as an alternative it could be possible to download timetable data in toc apps. This would solve the problems when there is no signal. The Czech Railways app has this feature with the ability to download most European countries including the UK

That seems a very sensible solution however, there seems to be a fear of modern technology with many members of this board. In particular owning a modern phone seems to be something akin to witchcraft!

 

[skifans]

That seems a very sensible solution however, there seems to be a fear of modern technology with many members of this board. In particular owning a modern phone seems to be something akin to witchcraft!

I totally agree, there is one app out there that I am aware of which already does this which is the Interail app (https://www.interrail.eu/en/plan-your-trip/rail-planner-app) and has times across Europe offline, I also find even with an internet connection having the data offline makes it notability faster. They do also include some disruption information when its long term such as the Derby works, with those rail replacement buses included. In my view it's by far the closest to a paper timetable (and as far as I know, one of the few apps that allows filtering by minimum connection and bikes onboard). This is sounding a little bit more like an advert then I want, and it isn't perfect esspciliy with short term disruption, but a paper timetable obviously isn't going to show those at all.

 

[Esker-pades]

chill out and try and relax. I haven't told anyone to buy anything. I simply point out that not having a printer is not a major obstacle when a new one can be picked up for a relatively modest price. Of course, for those on a budget, second hand options are available for much less. Alternatively libraries offer extensive IT facilities for a very modest or often no fee.


BTW - at some point, perhaps soon, the answer will be: No printer no timetable. You need to be ready to deal with that. However, If you want to strand yourself in the 19th century be my guest.

Early 21st.

What happens to the people who don't have internet coverage? Whilst internet is widespread, it is by no means universal.

Ditto with people who rely on food banks, so can't even begin to think about spending money on a printer.

 

[DarloRich]

Early 21st.

What happens to the people who don't have internet coverage? Whilst internet is widespread, it is by no means universal.

Ditto with people who rely on food banks, so can't even begin to think about spending money on a printer.

With the greatest of respect are food bank users going to be regular rail users? I know when i could have used a food bank ( didn't - to stupidly proud) the nearest i got to a train was watching them whizz past.

Shall I tell you what I did when I had nothing ( and I mean nothing) and needed IT facilities? I walked down to the library and used their computers and printers. The job I have now I got with an application I completed and submitted on the computers at my library.

PS there can be few people these days without internet coverage. Last figures I saw said 90% + of the country ( by area) had internet access. Seems like an excuse.

 

[Clip]

Ditto with people who rely on food banks, so can't even begin to think about spending money on a printer.

Wow that really is clutching at straws. Train travel will be even further down their list than a printer but do as Darlorich says and use the library - they are a very useful resource and those who are not tech savvy can have free classes and everything.

 

[Steve Harris]

chill out and try and relax. I haven't told anyone to buy anything.

Hmmm.... I don't think

Brutally - Buy a printer. They don't cost that much.

can be taken any other way other than telling someone to buy a printer.

If you want to make a suggestion, then using the word suggest rather than brutally or buy would be a good idea.

And no i dont need to chill out and try and relax!

Considering im already laying down on a bed, i cant get anymore horizontal!

 

[Steve Harris]

So it would be better to carry round loads of paper then?

I can't really call 2 pocket timetables as "loads".

I certainly would only be carrying the minimum number of timetables i needed for a trip/day out.

 

[6Gman]

Brutally - Buy a printer. They don't cost that much. So many things are now "print at home". Old fashioned ink jets cost about £50. A basic laser one costs about £75.

Er, and a computer.

And if your plans change while you're out and about?

(This whole subject was discussed at length some weeks ago when staff at Preston refused to let me have printed timetables because they'd been "put away" in advance of the introduction of new timetables. The thing I find frustrating is that those who choose to use paper timetables are quite happy for others to use smartphones, laptops, tablets or whatever other gizmo they choose; it's only (some of) the techies who want to deny others the option they prefer.)

 

[6Gman]

With the greatest of respect are food bank users going to be regular rail users? I know when i could have used a food bank ( didn't - to stupidly proud) the nearest i got to a train was watching them whizz past.

Shall I tell you what I did when I had nothing ( and I mean nothing) and needed IT facilities? I walked down to the library and used their computers and printers. The job I have now I got with an application I completed and submitted on the computers at my library.

PS there can be few people these days without internet coverage. Last figures I saw said 90% + of the country ( by area) had internet access. Seems like an excuse.

I'll take you back to my Preston incident.

On arriving there I was considering whether to make a trip to Blackburn and/or Accrington (depending on journey time and train times). My printer (at home) wasn't a lot of use. A paper pocket timetable would have been ideal. But they had been "put away". Going to Preston Library to print off a timetable would have been ... bizarre. And would have defeated the purpose.

I have a smartphone, but find it clumsy for such a process. And the phone/net coverage at Preston station is patchy, as I discovered when I tried to use the 'phone!

A folded A4 sheet of paper, "Blackpool - Preston - Blackburn - Colne Train Services", would have been ... perfect!

 

[Esker-pades]

With the greatest of respect are food bank users going to be regular rail users? I know when i could have used a food bank ( didn't - to stupidly proud) the nearest i got to a train was watching them whizz past.

Shall I tell you what I did when I had nothing ( and I mean nothing) and needed IT facilities? I walked down to the library and used their computers and printers. The job I have now I got with an application I completed and submitted on the computers at my library.

PS there can be few people these days without internet coverage. Last figures I saw said 90% + of the country ( by area) had internet access. Seems like an excuse.

It depends how they get to work.

Recent cuts means that libraries are getting more and more scarce.

Then, one comes to rural areas. They are the places mist likely to have poor or nonexistent internet. They are the places where people have to travel the farthest to get to places like libraries or internet cafés. They are also the places where cuts to such services have happened (libraries, public transport etc.).

 

[Esker-pades]

Wow that really is clutching at straws. Train travel will be even further down their list than a printer but do as Darlorich says and use the library - they are a very useful resource and those who are not tech savvy can have free classes and everything.

That was not the main thrust of my argument.

I refer you to my most recent post just above to answer your points about libraries.

 

[Bantamzen]

Er, and a computer.

And if your plans change while you're out and about?

(This whole subject was discussed at length some weeks ago when staff at Preston refused to let me have printed timetables because they'd been "put away" in advance of the introduction of new timetables. The thing I find frustrating is that those who choose to use paper timetables are quite happy for others to use smartphones, laptops, tablets or whatever other gizmo they choose; it's only (some of) the techies who want to deny others the option they prefer.)

Judging by the thrust of this thread, I think actually some see technology and it's users as witchcraft as @DarloRich said upthread. Goodness knows what they think of us developers who make the witchcraft come to life......

But seriously, more people than ever are net enabled & capable of using mobile technology & want to use it for more functions. It is really only a matter of time before TOCs see little point in putting out contracts for thousands of paper timetables that then just sit around gathering dust. I'm afraid its just the way of things, much in the same way that your local post offices & banks are closing, or that cash is starting to be replaced demand is waning and will eventually drive the decision to ditch them.

 

[causton]

When you see how many timetables are thrown away at the end of a timetable period...

(This was just from one station, and this was only a fraction of it, as these were just the ones we missed after we went back a month later to take in a new delivery!)

 

[DarloRich]

But seriously, more people than ever are net enabled & capable of using mobile technology & want to use it for more functions. It is really only a matter of time before TOCs see little point in putting out contracts for thousands of paper timetables that then just sit around gathering dust. I'm afraid its just the way of things, much in the same way that your local post offices & banks are closing, or that cash is starting to be replaced demand is waning and will eventually drive the decision to ditch them.

When you see how many timetables are thrown away at the end of a timetable period...

(This was just from one station, and this was only a fraction of it, as these were just the ones we missed after we went back a month later to take in a new delivery!)

The time will come fairly soon where the TOC works out it is wasting money printing timetables and will stop. They are already offering you print at home tickets. Budget Airlines routinely expect you to print at home all of your tickets and paperwork ( how do the posters here deal with THAT?). Receipts for goods are often print at home, hotel chains mange your bookings entirely on line etc etc - it will only increase. Why should companies carry the cost of your techno-phobia? Like it or not life today is online.

Furthermore I find few, if any, of the excuses set out above show a compelling why printed timetables should continue. For instance you cant plan trips on line - Rubbish. I have planned 7 day dusk till dawn railrovers entirely online. My phone doesn't work. Rubbish. I am on O2 and have never had a signal issue in a built up area. It might not work at Attadale. It works at Preston.

Hmmm.... I don't think
can be taken any other way other than telling someone to buy a printer.

If you want to make a suggestion, then using the word suggest rather than brutally or buy would be a good idea.

And no i dont need to chill out and try and relax!

Considering im already laying down on a bed, i cant get anymore horizontal!

You are getting your nickers in a twist over nothing. I am fairly certain that as a mere message board wibbler I lack the ability to instruct people to do anything!

It depends how they get to work.

Recent cuts means that libraries are getting more and more scarce.

Then, one comes to rural areas. They are the places mist likely to have poor or nonexistent internet. They are the places where people have to travel the farthest to get to places like libraries or internet cafés. They are also the places where cuts to such services have happened (libraries, public transport etc.).

OK i take the point, However, I lived in rural North Yorkshire in a village with no public transport. We still had internet in 2000

 

[Esker-pades]

The time will come fairly soon where the TOC works out it is wasting money printing timetables and will stop. They are already offering you print at home tickets. Budget Airlines routinely expect you to print at home all of your tickets and paperwork ( how do the posters here deal with THAT?). Receipts for goods are often print at home, hotel chains mange your bookings entirely on line etc etc - it will only increase. Why should companies carry the cost of your techno-phobia? Like it or not life today is online.

Furthermore I find few, if any, of the excuses set out above show a compelling why printed timetables should continue. For instance you cant plan trips on line - Rubbish. I have planned 7 day dusk till dawn railrovers entirely online. My phone doesn't work. Rubbish. I am on O2 and have never had a signal issue in a built up area. It might not work at Attadale. It works at Preston.



You are getting your nickers in a twist over nothing. I am fairly certain that as a mere message board wibbler I lack the ability to instruct people to do anything!



OK i take the point, However, I lived in rural North Yorkshire in a village with no public transport. We still had internet in 2000

I think printing fewer timetables is a very reasonable thing to do. I'm only objecting to removing then.

 

[Andyh82]

If they are throwing away loads, just print less!

Of course we don’t know if they were actively all put out or if racks were left empty frequently due to not enough staff being available to refill them.

Try navigating through a PDF version on your phone, where you keep having to zoom in and out, and then can’t see the column with the name of the stations, and the times at the same time.

There is still a place for printed timetables even with all the apps and journey planners as they show a full picture of the service, not just your specific journey.

 

[Steve Harris]

your nickers in a twist over nothing. I am fairly certain that as a mere message board wibbler I lack the ability to instruct people to do anything!

I'm not getting my knickers in a twist. As i don't wear any!

As you may not of noticed, Steve is a man's name and men dont tend to wear knickers !

 

[krus_aragon]

Brutally - Buy a printer. They don't cost that much. So many things are now "print at home". Old fashioned ink jets cost about £50. A basic laser one costs about £75.

If you want a printer for occasional use, a laser printer is the better option. Ink jet printers' cartridges will dry up and clog if unused for a few weeks/months, giving you hassles when trying to print, and run print-head cleaning cycles (which use up your expensive ink) whenever you get it out of storage. The price of lasers has dropped such that you can pick one up for ₤50 from Argos these days. The only downside is that you can only print in black and white.

(My in-laws are still using a laser printer that I acquired second-hand over a decade ago!)

 

[185]

Back to Altrincham, the station is managed by TfGM and paper timetables should have been available. The 'they don't print them any more' answer should not have been given, as if I remember right, a reasonable stock of Chester line timetables did arrive at the start of the season - I'm guessing they've run out and someone was looking for a more colourful excuse. Rights or wrongs of tree chopping aside, the most sensible second option for booking office staff would be to print one off, they've a considerable back office at Alty.

 

[shredder1]

Back in the early 70`s on ALR we would have to carry a Southern, Western, Eastern, London Midland and Scottish timetables around, it was hard work, although I always buy Slovakian (now three seperate ones) and a Czech national timetable when travelling in those countries.

 

[urbophile]

Looking up train times online is rather like trying to buy a house by looking through the letter box. You will get a glimpse of what you want, and if lucky it might be enough information, but you don't have the width of vision to get a full impression and be able to make comparisons.
In the same way I can read a newspaper online, but will often miss interesting articles because they have to be searched for, whereas with a paper copy I can skim through and see most headlines at a glance.
I know you can download pdf versions of a printed timetable, but they are not easily read on a phone and printing one out doesn't guarantee legible quality either.
For what it's worth, Merseytravel continues to issue - free - printed booklets for all train services (not just Merseyrail) with its area.

 

[Mikey C]

Looking up train times online is rather like trying to buy a house by looking through the letter box. You will get a glimpse of what you want, and if lucky it might be enough information, but you don't have the width of vision to get a full impression and be able to make comparisons.
In the same way I can read a newspaper online, but will often miss interesting articles because they have to be searched for, whereas with a paper copy I can skim through and see most headlines at a glance.
I know you can download pdf versions of a printed timetable, but they are not easily read on a phone and printing one out doesn't guarantee legible quality either.
For what it's worth, Merseytravel continues to issue - free - printed booklets for all train services (not just Merseyrail) with its area.

But then most people don't read the whole timetable online, they use an app (e.g. National Rail Enquiries) to query a journey.

I'm at Petts Wood station (as I was last Saturday or rather in the pub nearby!) tell me the trains between Petts Wood and London. That will tell me the trains, and how long they take, while clicking on one will tell me the intermediate stops, and any connections. Indeed it will often give the platform.

 

[urbophile]

Well yes. Online apps have their uses. Just like if you want the latest breaking news you go to the newspapers app rater than yesterday's printed copy. But if you want the whole picture, paper is preferable.

 

[Darandio]

If they are throwing away loads, just print less!

Then we will end up with an identical thread stating there weren't any timeables at xxx station.

As you may not of noticed, Steve is a man's name and men dont tend to wear knickers !

From what I see on the TV these days i'm not so sure!

People are just going to have to suck it up, it is an online world. On seeing the complaints about not having a computer or access to one, be thankful you aren't unemployed. Want to apply to sign on? Online process. Want to provide evidence to a job coach or risk losing benefit? Online process. Want to apply for a job to get off unemployment? Near 100% online process.

 

[Bevan Price]

I'll take you back to my Preston incident.

On arriving there I was considering whether to make a trip to Blackburn and/or Accrington (depending on journey time and train times). My printer (at home) wasn't a lot of use. A paper pocket timetable would have been ideal. But they had been "put away". Going to Preston Library to print off a timetable would have been ... bizarre. And would have defeated the purpose.

I have a smartphone, but find it clumsy for such a process. And the phone/net coverage at Preston station is patchy, as I discovered when I tried to use the 'phone!

A folded A4 sheet of paper, "Blackpool - Preston - Blackburn - Colne Train Services", would have been ... perfect!

I passed through Preston several times last week. They had WCML & Trans Pennine paper timetables on display - but none for Northern. Almost every other manned station I used had some paper timetables on display for all operators serving that station.

 

[Bevan Price]

Brutally - Buy a printer. They don't cost that much. So many things are now "print at home". Old fashioned ink jets cost about £50. A basic laser one costs about £75.
.

Yes - many printers can be bought cheaply - but the operating costs (inks, etc.) can be horrendously expensive.