Pride liveried units

[bramling]

And of course they can. Nobody from any 'community' is expected to have the exact same views as anyone else. They're not the Borg!

To be honest I get sick of al this ‘community’ stuff. As someone who identifies as an ‘individual’ I find all this sort of stuff pretty objectionable.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Plenty of members of the “community” find it patronising if not insulting.

So what is the point of PRIDE exactly if not to promote debate, inclusivity and understanding. I don't claim to know much, but as a straight heterosexual man who has been lucky enough to have some friends who aren't of the same orientation and have taken me to some amazing venues with some fantastic people who come across some ridiculous bias for being themselves in 2023 just seems crazy. The fact wrapping a couple of the thousands of trains seems to bother so many here worries me there is still a long road ahead sadly.

 

[Sirius]

334006 is the Pride unit for ScotRail.

And here it is. With apologies for the bad lighting at Glasgow Queen Street.

 

[CapitalStar378]

I'm pretty appalled at some of the thinly veiled homophobic remarks on this discussion, it feels like it's the 1970s reading some of the ignorant posts.

Normalising being LGBTQ+ and trying to promote some positive discussion in the wider community is extremely important, and it's fantastic that TfL and other TOCs are making such an effort.

 

[bramling]

I'm pretty appalled at some of the thinly veiled homophobic remarks on this discussion, it feels like it's the 1970s reading some of the ignorant posts.

And this is the problem. It’s a perfectly legitimate viewpoint to dislike the notion of dressing up a train in a particular livery. This really *isn’t* homophobic. Which particular “thinly veiled” remarks are you referring to?

Normalising being LGBTQ+

I’m not sure a special train livery normalises anything. On the contrary I’d say. Hence why plenty of LGBTQ+ people find it patronising if not insulting. Of course, such people don’t seem to be allowed to have that view.

 

[Nym]

If painting or throwing some plastic on one of your units counts as making an effort, I weep for the levels of 'effort' expended by our predecessors to get us to the level of progress we have now (although this is now going backwards in so many places, perhaps the concept of rainbow washing like this is a contributory factor?)

 

[cnjb8]

Plenty of members of the “community” find it patronising if not insulting.

How many of us have you asked?

 

[bramling]

How many of us have you asked?

Plenty.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Plenty.

WOW..............

 

[cnjb8]

Plenty.

I find that hard to believe based on your past few posts

 

[bramling]

WOW..............

I *really* don’t see why it should come as such a shock that not all LGBT+ people wish to be associated with pride or the rainbow. Why is it so disagreeable a notion that many people simply wish to get on with their life?

Can you honestly not see how people might find this sort of thing extremely patronising?

 

[high camera]

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...es-told-on-the-tfl-network-to-mark-pride-2023

It might be an idea if everyone reads the TFL information page about the campaign it’s much more than just a train

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I *really* don’t see why it should come as such a shock that not all LGBT+ people wish to be associated with pride or the rainbow. Why is it so disagreeable a notion that many people simply wish to get on with their life?

Can you honestly not see how people might find this sort of thing extremely patronising?

Then get on with life, and let those that do enjoy it, celebrate it or just be happy to be included. If it was train celebrating the Kings coronation or Queens Jubilee , not everyone loves the monarchy, those that do celebrate it, those that don't just ignore it and get on with life. Nobody has to be associated with anything they don't want to.

 

[cnjb8]

I *really* don’t see why it should come as such a shock that not all LGBT+ people wish to be associated with pride or the rainbow. Why is it so disagreeable a notion that many people simply wish to get on with their life?

Can you honestly not see how people might find this sort of thing extremely patronising?

Can you not see how patronising it is for a non-LGBTQ+ person to explain how LGBTQ+ people might feel about pride trains?

 

[bramling]

Can you not see how patronising it is for a non-LGBTQ+ person to explain how LGBTQ+ people might feel about pride trains?

No because it seems abundantly clear here that there is an unwillingness to entertain the fact that not all LGBT+ people feel the same way. Indeed it seems there’s some considerable stereotyping going on here.

I have made the point that *some* people find it patronising and/or insulting. For some reason such a viewpoint seems to be considered illegitimate, which I find a very strange position to take.

Do you accept that *some* people take that view? Yes or no.

 

[cnjb8]

No because it seems abundantly clear here that there is an unwillingness to entertain the fact that not all LGBT+ people feel the same way. Indeed it seems there’s some considerable stereotyping going on here.

I have made the point that *some* people find it patronising and/or insulting. For some reason such a viewpoint seems to be considered illegitimate, which I find a very strange position to take.

Do you accept that *some* people take that view? Yes or no.

Yes, some LGBTQ people may find it patronising. I personally do not find it patronising, frankly it's needed to raise awareness and start conversations, especially considering the current climate we are facing in this country (the gov not banning conversion therapy for example), it is pride month after all

 

[bramling]

Yes, some LGBTQ people may find it patronising.

We got there in the end.

I personally do not find it patronising, frankly it's needed to raise awareness and start conversations, especially considering the current climate we are facing in this country (the gov not banning conversion therapy for example), it is pride month after all

This is your personal opinion, which FWIW I entirely respect. However it needs to be remembered that this is very much an opinion, and is therefore going to be subjected to alternative - legitimate - viewpoints. You may well not *personally* find it patronising, but others very much do.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Agreed

No because it seems abundantly clear here that there is an unwillingness to entertain the fact that not all LGBT+ people feel the same way. Indeed it seems there’s some considerable stereotyping going on here.

I have made the point that *some* people find it patronising and/or insulting. For some reason such a viewpoint seems to be considered illegitimate, which I find a very strange position to take.

Do you accept that *some* people take that view? Yes or no.

 

[GusB]

Oh, for goodness' sake - it's a colourful bit of plastic slapped on the side of a train to celebrate an event. These days I'm not overly fussed about Pride events, but in my younger days I went to a few and it was liberating to actually be yourself, hold hands with your partner - even if it was only for a day.

If we could all live our lives without being mocked, beaten up, jailed or executed for being who we are, then maybe pride wouldn't be necessary at all.

 

[ollyexe2808]

100% agree with GusB.

I am not going to profess to know much about the socio-political structure of LGBTQA+ within the rail industry - but just adding in a comment that last year, Tim Dunn did an excellent piece in Modern Railways about 'trainbows' - their history as well as impact for some. Regardless of your perspective, I found the article really profound and interesting. I personally found the nod to Alan Turing on GWR 800008 really interesting as well. As long as it is done with genuine intentions and has a clear narrative behind it, I have no issues.

 

[zwk500]

No because it seems abundantly clear here that there is an unwillingness to entertain the fact that not all LGBT+ people feel the same way. Indeed it seems there’s some considerable stereotyping going on here.

I have made the point that *some* people find it patronising and/or insulting. For some reason such a viewpoint seems to be considered illegitimate, which I find a very strange position to take.

Do you accept that *some* people take that view? Yes or no.

You've taken the fact that *some* people find it patronising to try and justify preventing any show of support *at all*.

How do you think that feels to the people who find some comfort and support in the gesture?

 

[Neo9320]

I think we should all just be grateful that we live in a society where showing this kind of support IS allowed!

Any costs incurred for this are negligible, and anyone thinking that this kind of money could be ‘better spent elsewhere’ seriously overestimates how far that money could go.

Get over it! As has been previously mentioned, no one grumbles when heritage liveries are applied, and all they do is bring spotters out to take photos! I seriously doubt TOCs see an increase in passenger numbers because a BR livery is applied!

 

[156421]

If a driver refused to drive one citing religious grounds or something would they be sacked?

 

[NSEWonderer]

If a driver refused to drive one citing religious grounds or something would they be sacked?

This is interesting actually. Wondered this too.

 

[156421]

This is interesting actually. Wondered this too.

I don't think there is a cancellation code for this.

 

[Mag_seven]

The original purpose of this Traction and Rolling Stock section thread was to identify the unit numbers of a couple units that had appeared in Pride livery. That question was answered ages ago. We are done here.

(note: Elizabeth Line unit that's in Pride colours is 345055.)