Preston - Ormskirk

[crispy1978]

Continuing on the post re: Preston 3C, but on a separate issue - why is the track so horrendously bumpy between Preston and Ormskirk?

I literally left my seat 3 times with the size of the jolt, and a lot of people were complaining about it. I heard one comment about it being a very old line, and I noticed it was single track as I saw a token system in operation - but I'm sure if this was the WCML it would be sorted instantly! Is it because it's merely a branch lime it doesn't merit being maintained properly?

 

[rick9525]

Maybe a ballast issue.

I watched Extreme Trains with Chris Tarrant and going through Burma you saw the effects of no ballast and people were practically thrown from their seats hock:hock:hock:

 

[WatcherZero]

Low frequency branchline, lower maintenance standards.

Is it still jointed rather than welded? Ive almost forgotten how bumpy jointed track was its been so long since I last travelled a line which still had it.

 

[PHILIPE]

Was it a 142 as a Pacer frequently works the Branch. That wouldn't have helped either

 

[Elecman]

Or even a 153?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Is it because it's merely a branch lime it doesn't merit being maintained properly?

That's a silly statement as you probably realise. It'll be maintained in line with the requirements for the route that it is, and there are a number of other issues which can affect ride quality, such as traction defects - issues with primary/secondary suspension, lateral yaw dampeners etc.

 

[crispy1978]

Was it a 142 as a Pacer frequently works the Branch. That wouldn't have helped either

Yes, was a 142.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe a ballast issue.

I watched Extreme Trains with Chris Tarrant and going through Burma you saw the effects of no ballast and people were practically thrown from their seats hock:hock:hock:

Yeah I saw that - it reminded me of that, but not as bad!

 

[PHILIPE]

Yes, was a 142.

No wonder it was a rough ride.

 

[crispy1978]

That's a silly statement as you probably realise. It'll be maintained in line with the requirements for the route that it is, and there are a number of other issues which can affect ride quality, such as traction defects - issues with primary/secondary suspension, lateral yaw dampeners etc.

A bit tongue in cheek, it just felt like it needed a good hammer to bang it back down flat!

 

[spongsdad]

That's a silly statement as you probably realise. It'll be maintained in line with the requirements for the route that it is, and there are a number of other issues which can affect ride quality, such as traction defects - issues with primary/secondary suspension, lateral yaw dampeners etc.

It's not a statement; it's a question. Questions are not and cannot be silly; answers frequently are. If the poster experienced a rough ride on his journey, he is entitled to ask why.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is Rufford now the only place where passing could be effected on this line?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is Rufford now the only place where passing could be effected on this line?

Yes, it is... Other than on the short run down the WCML after the junction, which wouldn't be an efficient use of stock unless the services ran beyond Preston but the only option would be Blackpool North as the coast line is even more of a "long siding" and is full. If an extra unit could be found to increase the services to hourly there'd also be a lot of down-time at Ormskirk.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes, why the proposal for improvements on the line is to run it to Burscough rather than Ormskirk which allows an even hourly timing from a single unit.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, why the proposal for improvements on the line is to run it to Burscough rather than Ormskirk which allows an even hourly timing from a single unit.

Noting what you say above, the competing Stagecoach bus service seems also to only run on an hourly basis between Burscough and Preston, but this mainly follows the line of the Liverpool to Preston road, serving those settlements such as Much Hoole en route and therefore caters for a different travelling public.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it is... Other than on the short run down the WCML after the junction, which wouldn't be an efficient use of stock unless the services ran beyond Preston but the only option would be Blackpool North as the coast line is even more of a "long siding" and is full. If an extra unit could be found to increase the services to hourly there'd also be a lot of down-time at Ormskirk.

There have been cases of it running to Blackpool North, certainly when it has been run on Sundays where Liverpool to Preston via Wigan was not running.

 

[Camden]

Continuing on the post re: Preston 3C, but on a separate issue - why is the track so horrendously bumpy between Preston and Ormskirk?

I literally left my seat 3 times with the size of the jolt, and a lot of people were complaining about it. I heard one comment about it being a very old line, and I noticed it was single track as I saw a token system in operation - but I'm sure if this was the WCML it would be sorted instantly! Is it because it's merely a branch lime it doesn't merit being maintained properly?

It's a lot more to do with the train. I think I recall you asked for advice on a journey route a while back, and I said to you this route is valid but be warned because it's a pacer... it's this issue I was referring to. The route to Kirkby from Wigan is just as bad. Luckily it's only 30 minutes or so and then you're off and back on a decent train after, but yes it's not good. If Merseyrail cannot be extended up to Preston then I think this is a should be a candidate for the D78s.

 

[Brian1947]

It's a lot more to do with the train. I think I recall you asked for advice on a journey route a while back, and I said to you this route is valid but be warned because it's a pacer... it's this issue I was referring to. The route to Kirkby from Wigan is just as bad. Luckily it's only 30 minutes or so and then you're off and back on a decent train after, but yes it's not good. If Merseyrail cannot be extended up to Preston then I think this is a should be a candidate for the D78s.

A single car 153 is typically used on the line. Not sure about loadings in the peak but I have never seen anyone having to stand, other than by choice. There would need to be significant increases in loadings (beyond Burscough) to justify electrification.

Track condition cannot be too bad as the "Lancs Links" railtour ran on the line earlier this year, it being squeezed in between the regular service crossing at Rufford.

 

[crispy1978]

It's a lot more to do with the train. I think I recall you asked for advice on a journey route a while back, and I said to you this route is valid but be warned because it's a pacer... it's this issue I was referring to. The route to Kirkby from Wigan is just as bad. Luckily it's only 30 minutes or so and then you're off and back on a decent train after, but yes it's not good. If Merseyrail cannot be extended up to Preston then I think this is a should be a candidate for the D78s.

Yes, I did ask for the advice - I chose this route as a) is new track to me so thought it would tick me a few stations off, and b) it seemed the quickest option back (could have left Barrow an hour earlier and got to Liverpool 8 minutes later!) - the wife was with me too and was ready to be back to the hotel so we just took the quickest option.

Was just a bit surprised it was as bumpy as it was - not experienced anything like that before!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If Merseyrail cannot be extended up to Preston then I think this is a should be a candidate for the D78s.

Noting what you say above, what will the suspension on those D78 units be like and is there any similar type of track that is to be found upon the branch line through Croston and Rufford in the home London Underground network where they are used to traversing?

 

[Camden]

Noting what you say above, what will the suspension on those D78 units be like and is there any similar type of track that is to be found upon the branch line through Croston and Rufford in the home London Underground network where they are used to traversing?

This belongs on a different thread. All I will say is that I know they will be infinitely superior to ride, that there is absolutely no reason to believe otherwise given their mechanical and physical differences to Pacers (the Pacers are diesel railbuses, not trains, the D78s are electric trains, soon to be diesel-electric trains) and that no one is going to be able to offer you the cast iron guarantee of customer satisfaction, backed up with the kind of evidence you'll only get in service, that you seem to want. I doubt you'll ever use Ormskirk to Preston, so I don't see why them being deployed here would be any skin off your nose.

A single car 153 is typically used on the line. Not sure about loadings in the peak but I have never seen anyone having to stand, other than by choice. There would need to be significant increases in loadings (beyond Burscough) to justify electrification.

Track condition cannot be too bad as the "Lancs Links" railtour ran on the line earlier this year, it being squeezed in between the regular service crossing at Rufford.

Unless you're a regular user and I'm just unlucky, I suspect you may be out of date on this one. I sometimes use this if I have a call to go from Liverpool to Preston, and it's been a Pacer each time. I seem to recall someone somewhere saying it is always a Class 142 these days.

 

[crispy1978]

Unless you're a regular user and I'm just unlucky, I suspect you may be out of date on this one. I sometimes use this if I have a call to go from Liverpool to Preston, and it's been a Pacer each time. I seem to recall someone somewhere saying it is always a Class 142 these days.

Was a 142 when I was on it Saturday evening (142031)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This belongs on a different thread. All I will say is that I know they will be infinitely superior to ride, that there is absolutely no reason to believe otherwise given their mechanical and physical differences to Pacers (the Pacers are diesel railbuses, not trains, the D78s are electric trains, soon to be diesel-electric trains) and that no one is going to be able to offer you the cast iron guarantee of customer satisfaction, backed up with the kind of evidence you'll only get in service, that you seem to want.

It was your good self who brought the Class 230 (D78) units into this thread and all I asked was how the suspension of that unit would cope with the type of track that is found on the line between Croston and Rufford. Nothing more. Nothing less.

As your response states "infinitely superior to ride", I take it that your answer actually refers to the question raised by me between on the existing track condition between Croston and Rufford.

 

[crispy1978]

The Northern Electric (went from Liverpool to Wigan on one) was a very smooth ride, as were the Merseyrail services.

 

[QueensCurve]

Yes, was a 142.

There is your problem - no bogies - because it is a Leyland National bus body on top of an Advanced Freight vehicle Chassis you ride with a pitching motion on jointed track.

It is awful even at 10mph between Carlisle and Currock Junction.

 

[L+Y]

Poor old Ormskirk-Preston is my local line, and I've never thought that the track is that bad!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I doubt you'll ever use Ormskirk to Preston, so I don't see why them being deployed here would be any skin off your nose.

I am sure that you must be confusing me with a far much younger forum member than I, as I was 25 years of age when the direct Liverpool-Ormskirk-Preston services were finally withdrawn and I had made that through journey very many times prior to that date. Since then, I have made the truncated journey from Ormskirk to Preston quite a number of times.

Please therefore, put your expressed doubts to rest with regard to the matter that is stated in your quote above.

 

[PHILIPE]

Perhaps the Pacer the OP travelled in had "square wheels" (wheel flats), a condition more common during the leaf fall season which we are now entering.

 

[L+Y]

I was 25 years of age when the direct Liverpool-Ormskirk-Preston services were finally withdrawn and I had made that through journey very many times prior to that date.

I don't suppose you ever took any photos prior to the end of the regular service in October 1969?

Do you recall as to which way the trains ran towards the end? Was it out of Preston East Lancs and through Lostock Hall, or directly down the WCML as now?

 

[Bletchleyite]

is there any similar type of track that is to be found upon the branch line through Croston and Rufford in the home London Underground network where they are used to traversing?

The quality of the track on the subsurface LUL lines is notoriously terrible, though there have been improvements of late. So yes.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Maybe a ballast issue.

I watched Extreme Trains with Chris Tarrant and going through Burma you saw the effects of no ballast and people were practically thrown from their seats hock:hock:hock:

Are you sure that wasn't a section of NR infrastructure?