Preston / optimization

[cle]

Thinking on a future Preston which might have a reinstated Mail platforms set up, and in theory could have P7 reinstated too:

Might it be better to cut some through journeys that cross the throat and don't have tons of cross-Preston usage, and add frequency instead.

e.g. move to
2tph Preston - Colne (p6/7)
2tph Preston - Leeds (/York?) (p6/7)
2tph Blackpool South (from Mail side)

and offer better 'hubbing' into the various services at Preston, inc HS2, at clockface / metro (e.g Blackburn 4tph) frequency, vs piddling 1tphs which take up valuable crossing moves without much demand for the stitching across. Blackpool-Leeds might be one contentious sever but it's well served.

What else could be added? A metro service via Chorley to Manchester?

Knowing that people will better use 2tph more for different options, like Birmingham, Liverpool and multiple Manchester, as well as a fast London.

 

[Flying Claret]

Can you do 2tph to Colne? It's single track from Gannow junction/ Rose Grove.

2 tph to Leeds would be nice. Don't they continue to York to free up space at Leeds though? It would be preferable to keep the york connection.

For both of the above, why P6/7 when 1/2 (3c) are best suited to get them onto the east lancs line...

 

[30907]

Can you do 2tph to Colne? It's single track from Gannow junction/ Rose Grove.

Ditto Blackpool South!

2 tph to Leeds would be nice. Don't they continue to York to free up space at Leeds though? It would be preferable to keep the york connection.

Agree - and might as well keep Blackpool too.

For both of the above, why P6/7 when 1/2 (3c) are best suited to get them onto the east lancs line...

Quite. And in any case, it is operationally inefficient to have loads of trains terminating at Preston where there is only the one bay platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reason for the Blackpool South-Colne-Ormskirk "triangle" isn't because anyone is making through journeys across Preston, they mostly aren't. it's to optimise the usage of units and crews (mainly to allow Ormskirk to go up from 1h10 ish to hourly without adding resource), though due to poor punctuality an extra unit has been put in for some of the day which would now allow one of the routes to be separated off and stay hourly if that would allow resilience benefits.

Going to 2tph would require adding units/crews and possibly making changes to the single lines, so wouldn't be viable for quiet routes like these.

Colne-Ormskirk (or vice versa, that only happens in one direction) doesn't fully cross the formation, anyway, it does it in two bits - these reverse in 3C/4C bays which are in the middle.

 

[cle]

I think I had the platform numbers switched, and assumption of 3/4 bays gone as part of HS2 works (that is/was the plan for 400m)

The lines are quiet because they are a crap service, nit because they don't pass through populated places, they do. 2tph is the base for a reasonable feeder/commuter service like this to really thrive.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Thinking on a future Preston which might have a reinstated Mail platforms set up, and in theory could have P7 reinstated too:

Might it be better to cut some through journeys that cross the throat and don't have tons of cross-Preston usage, and add frequency instead.

Can you do 2tph to Colne? It's single track from Gannow junction/ Rose Grove.

2 tph to Leeds would be nice. Don't they continue to York to free up space at Leeds though? It would be preferable to keep the york connection.

For both of the above, why P6/7 when 1/2 (3c) are best suited to get them onto the east lancs line...

Yes. I would use reinstated Mail platforms for these services - not P6/7.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. I would use reinstated Mail platforms for these services - not P6/7.

I believe the intention is that the Res platforms will be reinstated to replace 3C/4C if/when the work is done to allow 400m HS2 double units to call there, as the extension of the main island would block the bays off (and their location is a bit of a nuisance anyway). For now they aren't needed.

 

[Flying Claret]

I think I had the platform numbers switched, and assumption of 3/4 bays gone as part of HS2 works (that is/was the plan for 400m)

The lines are quiet because they are a crap service, nit because they don't pass through populated places, they do. 2tph is the base for a reasonable feeder/commuter service like this to really thrive

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2024 ==

I believe the intention is that the Res platforms will be reinstated to replace 3C/4C if/when the work is done to allow 400m HS2 double units to call there, as the extension of the main island would block the bays off (and their location is a bit of a nuisance anyway). For now they aren't needed.

Probably a stupid question. What does RES stand for? Reserve? And where else are there RES platforms? I can't remember seeing any (off topic sorry)

 

[L+Y]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2024 ==


Probably a stupid question. What does RES stand for? Reserve? And where else are there RES platforms? I can't remember seeing any (off topic sorry)

Rail Express Systems- the 90s mail and parcels division of BR. They were the old platforms 1 and 2, taken out of use in 1970 as the first stage of Preston remodelling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the dedicated Royal Mail station at Warrington came under their remit? Not many other stations have spare platforms that could be dedicated for that.

 

[splashoutradio]

The reason for the Blackpool South-Colne-Ormskirk "triangle" isn't because anyone is making through journeys across Preston, they mostly aren't. it's to optimise the usage of units and crews (mainly to allow Ormskirk to go up from 1h10 ish to hourly without adding resource), though due to poor punctuality an extra unit has been put in for some of the day which would now allow one of the routes to be separated off and stay hourly if that would allow resilience benefits.

[...]

Colne-Ormskirk (or vice versa, that only happens in one direction) doesn't fully cross the formation, anyway, it does it in two bits - these reverse in 3C/4C bays which are in the middle.

It's been a while since the "triangle" has operated. The Colne and Ormskirk services still interwork, mostly using the bay platforms at Preston. The Blackpool South now runs as a standalone service, arriving into Preston around xx:10, emptying out, shunting into a siding, then returning into Preston in time for a xx:49(ish) departure.

This set up, whilst arguably not the most efficient use of staff and stock, has had the benefit of being able to use longer (4 carriages) trains to eleiviate congestion over the Blackpool South line, and has improved punctuality on all 3 lines.

 

[Flying Claret]

Rail Express Systems- the 90s mail and parcels division of BR. They were the old platforms 1 and 2, taken out of use in 1970 as the first stage of Preston remodelling.

Thanks. I've been travelling through Preston for 40 years and never knew.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2024 ==

It's been a while since the "triangle" has operated. The Colne and Ormskirk services still interwork, mostly using the bay platforms at Preston. The Blackpool South now runs as a standalone service, arriving into Preston around xx:10, emptying out, shunting into a siding, then returning into Preston in time for a xx:49(ish) departure.

This set up, whilst arguably not the most efficient use of staff and stock, has had the benefit of being able to use longer (4 carriages) trains to eleiviate congestion over the Blackpool South line, and has improved punctuality on all 3 lines.

So that's why we don't see 4 coach trains; with the last set locked out, in East Lancs anymore.

 

[cle]

It's been a while since the "triangle" has operated. The Colne and Ormskirk services still interwork, mostly using the bay platforms at Preston. The Blackpool South now runs as a standalone service, arriving into Preston around xx:10, emptying out, shunting into a siding, then returning into Preston in time for a xx:49(ish) departure.

This set up, whilst arguably not the most efficient use of staff and stock, has had the benefit of being able to use longer (4 carriages) trains to eleiviate congestion over the Blackpool South line, and has improved punctuality on all 3 lines.

Sounds like an improvement for those users - would be better with a suitable platform / stock utilization arrangement. And looks (yes wiki) like an application for a passing loop(s) was made, I'm sure a 2tph service would see much better uptake and less local traffic (to Preston)