Preston - London. Timetable Query.

[WestCoastTravel]

Hi guys,

I am little confused!!

My wife and I are travelling on first class advance purchase tickets on the 17.17 Preston to London Euston next Monday and the train does not appear in the National Timetable (downloaded from NR website), but does appear on Virgin Trains online timetables. Can anyone explain why? I presume that it must be a new service.

I also note that that our train goes via New Street. This seems a little bizarre - strikes me has if it is acting almost as a relief / slower service. Takes almost 3.5 hours to get to Euston, an 1 hour 20 minutes more than usual!

Furthermore there is another 17.17 which is listed in the journey planners as another way to get to Euston. (to Birmingham New Street, changing at Crewe). Is this a ploy by VT to boost revenue by confusing people into getting the wrong train and have to pay extra? Had a similar experience at Manchester Piccadilly a few years ago when there were two 08.34 to Euston (one fast from Stockport) and one (stopping at other stations). I caught the wrong 08.34 and wanted to get to Nuneaton, fortunately the train manager was quite understanding and authorised my ticket back to Nuneaton from Euston. He if stated that even some VT staff got confused!! Which begs the question why have two trains departing to the same place at the same time - surely this is just asking for trouble!!

Lastly before I end one final question:
If we travel first class will we get an evening meal?

EDIT: Have just checked the online journey planners and seems to start from next week only and only last for two weeks on a Monday Only. Does not appear in the planners past the 25th April. Could this be a service for Easter Only? Seems odd to introduce a new service half through the existing timetable period?

Regards,
WestCoastTravel.

 

[SS4]

On the VT timetable the 17:17 from Preston requires 'changing' at either Crewe or New St. (the Preston train arrives at 1855) although according to the NR timetable the 17:17 from Preston forms the 19:10 from BHM so you won't have to physically change

I reckon they have two trains at much the same time, one fast to make the headline journey time and one slow to stop at the stations and not jeopardise the headline time although it's a guess.

The 1717 from Preston doesn't have food but the 1910 from New St does. So it would be my guess that you'd get food between BHM and EUS (especially since you have a 5 minute stopover at BHM which is quite short for Virgin) although since this is the same train who knows?

 

[WestCoastTravel]

Thanks for information.

I would agree with you, except that we have a seat reservation for the duration of the journey and it does not indicate changing trains, nor does the online planner. The coach number we are reserved is G and as far as I am aware voyager (even double voyagers) do not use G to represent first class.

Having done some more digging, I see that the online planner shows the mystery 17.17 as stopping in Wolverhampton for 13 minutes. Arrives at 1832, leaves at 1845. Could it be that the online planner is wrong and that a change at Wolverhampton is required for the 1845 to London Euston?

Regards,
WestCoastTravel.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think the 1717 ex Preston is the 1451 Edinburgh-Birmingham NS extended to Euston, and probably formed of a Pendolino rather than a Voyager.
VT do this at busy times to provide more seats on the Scotland-Birmingham trains, and merging with a Birmingham-Euston saves resources. It also means the original Voyager can be used elsewhere or to double up another service. Can't say what the food arrangements are, probably the same as a Voyager.
There's likely to be more of this in the future as more Pendolinos come on stream.

 

[LexyBoy]

Hi guys,

I am little confused!!

My wife and I are travelling on first class advance purchase tickets on the 17.17 Preston to London Euston next Monday and the train does not appear in the National Timetable (downloaded from NR website), but does appear on Virgin Trains online timetables. Can anyone explain why? I presume that it must be a new service.

IIRC Virgin made a few timetable changes to increase capacity a while ago, I can't find the relevant thread right now though. It seems to be an extension of the Birmingham-Scotland VT service through to Euston though. The National Timetable does say that it's accurate when published but that there may be changes.

I also note that that our train goes via New Street. This seems a little bizarre - strikes me has if it is acting almost as a relief / slower service. Takes almost 3.5 hours to get to Euston, an 1 hour 20 minutes more than usual!

As above, it's an extension of the Brum-Scotland service. Not everyone wants to go to London!

Furthermore there is another 17.17 which is listed in the journey planners as another way to get to Euston. (to Birmingham New Street, changing at Crewe). Is this a ploy by VT to boost revenue by confusing people into getting the wrong train and have to pay extra? Had a similar experience at Manchester Piccadilly a few years ago when there were two 08.34 to Euston (one fast from Stockport) and one (stopping at other stations). I caught the wrong 08.34 and wanted to get to Nuneaton, fortunately the train manager was quite understanding and authorised my ticket back to Nuneaton from Euston. He if stated that even some VT staff got confused!! Which begs the question why have two trains departing to the same place at the same time - surely this is just asking for trouble!!

They are the same train - the faster one involves changing onto a faster (non-BHM) train at Crewe. It's not a ploy, it's a consequence of airline-style management that there will be more tickets for the PRE-EUS journey on the slower train (since not so many people will be doing that stretch compared to e.g. PRE-BHM), and Advance fares on the faster service will naturally sell out faster.

Was there a change involved in your previous experience? It's fairly unusual to have trains leaving to exactly the same destination at the same time.

Lastly before I end one final question:
If we travel first class will we get an evening meal?

There's no evening meal on Brum-Scotland services so maybe not. I think it will depend on whether the service is operated by a Voyager or Pendolino though - if the latter then there may be a meal. Hopefully someone knows what's going on with the timetable changes and can advise...

What LNW-GW Joint and SS4 said.

 

[SS4]

I could only see the 17:17 changing at Crewe on the journey planners by default yet specifying travel via BHM does bring up a change on the virgin site (at BHM) but not on NRE.

Could you end up on a Pendo from Preston?

 

[LexyBoy]

I could only see the 17:17 changing at Crewe on the journey planners by default yet specifying travel via BHM does bring up a change on the virgin site (at BHM) but not on NRE.

Could you end up on a Pendo from Preston?

Virgin site shows both the 1717 with and without a change for me...

Also amusingly, the direct one is £36.50 1st or £60.50 STD :neutral:

Bendydildo all the way, joy of joys!

 

[WestCoastTravel]

Thanks for all your replies, just have to wait and see I guess

In response to LexyBoy previous comment regarding the Manchester Piccadilly departures to Euston, as I recall both were direct, just one was slower.

 

[All Line Rover]

According to National Rail Enquiries, the service arrives at Wolverhampton at 18:32, and departs at 18:45. Evidently, the service from Edinburgh becomes the 18:45 Wolverhampton to Euston at Wolverhampton.

This is clear, because the train follows all the correct 14:51 Edinburgh to Birmingham timings until Wolverhampton, and then changes to follow the correct 18:45 Wolverhampton to Euston timings. This is shown by the fact that it stops at Sandwell and Dudley between Wolverhampton and Birmingham. The 14:51 isn't normally supposed to do that, but the 18:45 does.

There is no Evening Meal served on the 14:51 Edinburgh to Wolverhampton/Birmingham train. Virgin don't serve an Evening Meal on any train on the Birmingham to Scotland route. However, Virgin's timetable says that an Evening Meal is served on the 18:45 Wolverhampton to Euston service.

Overall, I'm pretty sure that you'll be served "Light Bites" until Wolverhampton, and will probably be served the Evening Meal sometime after departure from Coventry. (VT don't serve the Evening Meal between Wolverhampton and Coventry.)

 

[bengolding]

As a result of Pendolinos running this route, some services on the Euston-Birmingham route will be Voyagers, such as the 11:43 next Monday which presumably forms the 13:30 back.

I travelled on the Voyager to Birmingham yesterday, and was served an enhanced breakfast similar to what is offered on the Euston-Chester Voyagers, with croissants. Not substantial but thank goodness they've finally got rid of those awful breakfast rolls!

 

[AlterEgo]

You could always just ring Virgin Customer Relations and they'll be able to tell you.

 

[wibble]

Here is the full calling pattern for the train, with arrival and departure times at each station.

Edinburgh. dep. 14:51
Haymarket 14:56 14:57
Carlisle. 16:05 16:07
Penrith 16:20 16:22
Lancaster. 16:56 16:57
Preston Lancs 17:15 17:17
Wigan North West 17:28 17:28
Warrington Bk Qy 17:39 17:39
Crewe 17:58 18:01
Wolverhampton. 18:32 18:45
Sandwell & Dudly 18:55 18:56
Birmingham N St 19:05 19:10
Birmingham Intl 19:19 19:20
Coventry. 19:30 19:31
Watford Junction 20:15 20:15 (Set down only)
London Euston 20:34