Preston Bus Station

[radamfi]

I can see the sentimental value in preserving Preston Bus Station, but use it for a different purpose and move the buses near the railway station like anywhere else outside the UK and Ireland.

 

[snail]

is Preston bus station a remarkable building? Yes. Has it been neglected, especially when preparing for the abortive Tithebarn development? Yes. Is it a stand out example of brutalist architecture? Yes.

You can have the same glass and steel bus station that Burnley, Chorley, Lancaster, or Nelson have....and Preston will have lost one of the buildings that is actually distinctive.

Distinctive, yes. Fit for purpose as a bus station, no. Examples have been quoted of buildings saved from demolition and put to other uses. As I said earlier, give us a modern steel and glass bus station somewhere else and leave the Brutalists to ogle - and hopefully pay for the upkeep of - their icon to be converted to something else more practical.

 

[34D]

Do people just want to argue against the status quo? Imagine this thread if listing had failed!

 

[WatcherZero]

Its attractive but listing doesnt solve the fundamental problem of its crumbling material and expensive upkeep.

 

[Nick W]

What, if any, are the legal strictures that might apply in the case of any non-compliance to protect a listed building ? Should a building owned by a local authority be granted listed building status, are there any provision for that council to approach Central Government for funds to enable any required building protection ? I ask this as the Central Government financial grants to local authorities are currently in a stage of financial reduction.

Talking to a colleague, it would seem that this bridge hasn't been crossed in the past (compared to the LA compulsory purchasing the building, often to immediately put it in the hands of a preservation trust). I dare say there are a number of possible approaches that could be tested.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

In all fairness this is great news. The part of the bus station I use has recently had an upgrade and it's got lots of safe access points imo. (I've used them all in my time)
Anyway, slightly OT but how's the St John's exit doing? Not been that way in ages, looks like there's a lot down there that could be explored.

 

[youngboy]

I can see the sentimental value in preserving Preston Bus Station, but use it for a different purpose and move the buses near the railway station like anywhere else outside the UK and Ireland.

Or like In Blackburn where the council there have decided to move the bus station which has been next to the railway station for over 100 years to the other side of the town centre.......work that one out :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Or like In Blackburn where the council there have decided to move the bus station which has been next to the railway station for over 100 years to the other side of the town centre.......work that one out :roll:

Would the new site for the bus station be nearer any large shopping area for bus users than the one outside the railway station ? Incidentally, are there any plans to extend the landscaped area around Blackburn Cathedral towards the area of the railway station ?

 

[radamfi]

In most towns in the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany etc., nearly all buses go to the station. But that doesn't mean the town centre isn't served. If the town centre is on the way to the station, then naturally the bus will go through there. If it isn't then some buses might divert slightly to serve the town centre, but even if the bus doesn't go to the town centre there are always connections from the station to the town centre and of course you don't pay extra to change.

 

[youngboy]

Would the new site for the bus station be nearer any large shopping area for bus users than the one outside the railway station ? Incidentally, are there any plans to extend the landscaped area around Blackburn Cathedral towards the area of the railway station ?

Yep, That's the theory Paul the station will be where the old market used to be which is next to the shopping precinct and yes there are plans to change the area next to the cathedral with a hotel and landscaping etc.

 

[Class20]

Or like In Blackburn where the council there have decided to move the bus station which has been next to the railway station for over 100 years to the other side of the town centre.......work that one out :roll:

At least the people of Blackburn have a fresh new clean bus station to look forward to (after 2 years of a wind swept open plan temporary one). Preston has to make do with a relic that's past its use by date.

In all fairness this is great news. The part of the bus station I use has recently had an upgrade and it's got lots of safe access points imo. (I've used them all in my time)
Anyway, slightly OT but how's the St John's exit doing? Not been that way in ages, looks like there's a lot down there that could be explored.

Which bit of the bus station are you talking about? There's been no work to the place since 2009 when the current one way system for buses was imposed and the pedestrian crossing installed. Oh and the stupid large pictures showing people at the bus station, quite why someone thought having a picture of a male in his 20s in a hoody and tracky bottoms on the wall of the bus station was a good idea I don't know.

 

[kevjs]

I can see the sentimental value in preserving Preston Bus Station, but use it for a different purpose and move the buses near the railway station like anywhere else outside the UK and Ireland.

Not sure where you could put one that is both big enough and practical to access though - the obvious site (space wise) is the postal depot but that's out of the way. It might be less than perfect but for cross town / county travel it's much better than not having one at all (or even better take a look at Nottingham - two bus stations at either end of the city centre neither of which the city operator serves and neither are next to the train station or linked into the tram either).

I quite like the bus station alas I can never remember it getting any TLC (no new paint throughout my youth, and I can't remember the clocks ever working either). As for there being too many bays and problematic access (those stairs from Church Row were always lovely - not - jay walking was preferable!) - surely the simple fix here is:-

1) Move all the bus services to the Stagecoach Ribble side of the station (with possibly some lightly used Coach bays around bays 35 - 40)

2) Turn the concourse in front of bays 1 - 34 + Tithhbarn Street into either a new square, an extension to the St. John's Centre, or perhaps the location of the outdoor market if that's moved from it's current location (can't remember what the current plans are there).

3) Persuade someone to take advantage of the retail units inside the station - from a customer point of view it would be an ideal place for the likes of a Sainsbury's or Morrisons Local or even a small Branch of Booths like the one at Lane Ends.

 

[Clip]

Do people just want to argue against the status quo? Imagine this thread if listing had failed!

Or just imagine this thread if it was actually a railway station that needed to be saved and modernised because it was a dump and not fit for purpose. In fact we have already had a thread on that - London bridge and its roof!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Or just imagine this thread if it was actually a railway station that needed to be saved and modernised because it was a dump and not fit for purpose.

I used to think that Wakefield Kirkgate station once fitted that description, but some remedial works have now been carried out.

 

[Mugby]

A new bus station is not necessarily a better one.

Derby bus station is the most graphic example of this. Whilst the old one was somewhat lacking and outmoded, the new one has proved to be hell on earth!

 

[Clip]

I used to think that Wakefield Kirkgate station once fitted that description, but some remedial works have now been carried out.

And remedial works at Preston bus garage to make it function better are not a good idea but doing it at a station is yeah?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And remedial works at Preston bus garage to make it function better are not a good idea but doing it at a station is yeah?

You may very well think that, I coudn't possibly comment...

 

[radamfi]

Not sure where you could put one that is both big enough and practical to access though - the obvious site (space wise) is the postal depot but that's out of the way. It might be less than perfect but for cross town / county travel it's much better than not having one at all (or even better take a look at Nottingham - two bus stations at either end of the city centre neither of which the city operator serves and neither are next to the train station or linked into the tram either).

You are assuming nothing that currently exists can be knocked down. Even the usual British excuse about the station not being in a good location for the town centre doesn't apply here.

In advanced European countries, it would be considered beyond comprehension to have the bus station so far away from the railway station. Preston has made this catastrophic error, so remedying it will inevitably cause disruption.

In fact it would even be unacceptable to the Dutch/Swiss etc. to have to walk across a road to change from trains to buses. Normally the first thing you have as soon as you walk out of the station will be the buses and/or trams. Not a taxi rank or drop off area.

 

[Nick W]

You are assuming nothing that currently exists can be knocked down. Even the usual British excuse about the station not being in a good location for the town centre doesn't apply here.

In advanced European countries, it would be considered beyond comprehension to have the bus station so far away from the railway station. Preston has made this catastrophic error, so remedying it will inevitably cause disruption.

In fact it would even be unacceptable to the Dutch/Swiss etc. to have to walk across a road to change from trains to buses. Normally the first thing you have as soon as you walk out of the station will be the buses and/or trams. Not a taxi rank or drop off area.

I suspect many of these had the "advantage" of total destruction during World War 2 (e.g. Rotterdam) or the station on "remote" site (e.g. Amsterdam).

 

[radamfi]

I suspect many of these had the "advantage" of total destruction during World War 2 (e.g. Rotterdam) or the station on "remote" site (e.g. Amsterdam).

What about Haarlem, Eindhoven, Utrecht, Groningen, Leeuwarden, Arnhem, Maastricht, Heerenveen, Assen, Dordrecht, Leiden, Zwolle, Nijmegen, Breda, Tilburg, etc.? How come they have buses right next to the station?

 

[Nick W]

What about Haarlem, Eindhoven, Utrecht, Groningen, Leeuwarden, Arnhem, Maastricht, Heerenveen, Assen, Dordrecht, Leiden, Zwolle, Nijmegen, Breda, Tilburg, etc.? How come they have buses right next to the station?

It seems that many of them have only a small spaces for buses, pretty much like many UK stations?

I'd be very interested to know about Groningen. The station building is original 19th century, but the land between it and the river has been redeveloped post-war. I'm not sure how best to look up how and when the demolition took place.
Utrecht appears to have had the whole area demolished in the 1960s. What a way to treat a medieval city!

Euston is of course an English example of where a station building and its surroundings survived but where demolished anyway, with new infrastructure including a bus terminal. You can decide whether or not this was a good thing.
Welwyn would be an example similar to Utrecht (without the demolition) of a modern station with shopping centre and bus terminal.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Are there many post-Beeching examples of smaller settlements where only the bus station now exists where once there were railway and bus stations in close proximity ?

 

[radamfi]

It seems that many of them have only a small spaces for buses, pretty much like many UK stations?

I'm not sure what the point is here. In all those places, all buses to the town centre go to the station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Utrecht appears to have had the whole area demolished in the 1960s. What a way to treat a medieval city!

The whole station area is going through another huge redevelopment at the moment. How many UK stations have had post-war development next to it? At that point, buses could have been accommodated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Euston is of course an English example of where a station building and its surroundings survived but where demolished anyway, with new infrastructure including a bus terminal. You can decide whether or not this was a good thing.

The buses at Euston could have been placed immediately outside the historic part of the station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are there many post-Beeching examples of smaller settlements where only the bus station now exists where once there were railway and bus stations in close proximity ?

Historically, buses and trains were (and still are) in competition, so bus and rail stations being close to each other would have been only by coincidence. In general, attempts at integration between bus and national rail in the UK began in the 70s in the PTE areas with bus/rail interchanges like at Bradford, Altrincham and Bury. London Transport had some bus stations at tube stations before that.

 

[martinsh]

Are there many post-Beeching examples of smaller settlements where only the bus station now exists where once there were railway and bus stations in close proximity ?

Oswestry ?

 

[Lankyline]

Ok i'm going to chuck my twopenny worth in here,

This was a complete monstrosity from the time it was built, it has never been "fit for purpose" or used to capacity, merely an architectural experiment that some idiots in the council's planning office approved.

Yes the old Tithebarn bus station was too small and needed developing to cope with the "then" modern transport needs, but the council missed a major opportunity to develop an "integrated transport" policy by not siting the new bus station on the old east lancs goods yard, which would have been an ideal site next door to the railway station, road links could then have been developed around this area at the time.

One point i haven't seen mentioned is how come if this is council owned, did they allow this to become listed, if they were after demolishing it in the first place ? Maybe they should employ the old BR tactic of running it down ?

Just for the record i was born & bred in Preston, i remember it being built and it was a bloody great eyesore then ! it serves very little purpose, access is restrictive for both pedestrians & vehicles,it is cold & damp , information systems are virtually none existant, doors haven't been maintained or updated in decades, in winter its more like Siberia ! and the car park usage is negligable, doesnt pay for itself, so why keep it just because it looks "unique"


Here's an idea if it has to stay why not demolish a third of it instead

Will now sit back and await the expected bombardment, body armour at the ready !

 

[Statto]

Ok i'm going to chuck my twopenny worth in here,

This was a complete monstrosity from the time it was built, it has never been "fit for purpose" or used to capacity, merely an architectural experiment that some idiots in the council's planning office approved.

Yes the old Tithebarn bus station was too small and needed developing to cope with the "then" modern transport needs, but the council missed a major opportunity to develop an "integrated transport" policy by not siting the new bus station on the old east lancs goods yard, which would have been an ideal site next door to the railway station, road links could then have been developed around this area at the time.

One point i haven't seen mentioned is how come if this is council owned, did they allow this to become listed, if they were after demolishing it in the first place ? Maybe they should employ the old BR tactic of running it down ?

Just for the record i was born & bred in Preston, i remember it being built and it was a bloody great eyesore then ! it serves very little purpose, access is restrictive for both pedestrians & vehicles,it is cold & damp , information systems are virtually none existant, doors haven't been maintained or updated in decades, in winter its more like Siberia ! and the car park usage is negligable, doesnt pay for itself, so why keep it just because it looks "unique"


Here's an idea if it has to stay why not demolish a third of it instead

Will now sit back and await the expected bombardment, body armour at the ready !

Agree with everything you say the dump needs to be demolished & rebuilt similar to Burnley or Chorley Interchange with more stands, & yes i have used Preston Bus Station, how many of those who want to keep the dump as it is, actually use the Bus Station.

 

[Robertj21a]

Couldn't agree more, a total eyesore.

Why on earth would anybody want to waste money in keeping this building intact. Shame I haven't got a large bulldozer.

Robert
.

Ok i'm going to chuck my twopenny worth in here,

This was a complete monstrosity from the time it was built, it has never been "fit for purpose" or used to capacity, merely an architectural experiment that some idiots in the council's planning office approved.

Yes the old Tithebarn bus station was too small and needed developing to cope with the "then" modern transport needs, but the council missed a major opportunity to develop an "integrated transport" policy by not siting the new bus station on the old east lancs goods yard, which would have been an ideal site next door to the railway station, road links could then have been developed around this area at the time.

One point i haven't seen mentioned is how come if this is council owned, did they allow this to become listed, if they were after demolishing it in the first place ? Maybe they should employ the old BR tactic of running it down ?

Just for the record i was born & bred in Preston, i remember it being built and it was a bloody great eyesore then ! it serves very little purpose, access is restrictive for both pedestrians & vehicles,it is cold & damp , information systems are virtually none existant, doors haven't been maintained or updated in decades, in winter its more like Siberia ! and the car park usage is negligable, doesnt pay for itself, so why keep it just because it looks "unique"


Here's an idea if it has to stay why not demolish a third of it instead

Will now sit back and await the expected bombardment, body armour at the ready !

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Couldn't agree more, a total eyesore.

Why on earth would anybody want to waste money in keeping this building intact. Shame I haven't got a large bulldozer.

Robert
.

Yeah, and let's do the same with Bristol Temple Meads. That isn't close to the city centre, it's old, and that Neo-Gothic is so 1815?

 

[snail]

Yeah, and let's do the same with Bristol Temple Meads. That isn't close to the city centre, it's old, and that Neo-Gothic is so 1815?

But it isn't in Preston so irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But it isn't in Preston so irrelevant to this discussion.

Yes but can't you see the parallels. Non-central location? Too large? Old design?

So people can draw parallels with Holland and Switzerland but not somewhere in the same country..... how strange?