Preston bus station

[MidnightFlyer]

Despite how little I frequent this forum, I know there's quite a few bus users and enthusiasts from around here (NW England). Anyway:

There were plans awhile ago to redevelop the area around Preston bus station, as part of the Tithebarn project. The word on this has since gone quiet, but am I the only one to adore Preston bus station as it is? There's some beauty about it that I have never seen replicated in any form of public transoport station / terminal.

I really hope that it isn't demolished in the plans; to be honest is there anything really wrong with it?

Mind you, I'm from Blackburn, a garden shed looks better than our pathetic excuse for a bus station!

 

[theblackwatch]

Can't answer your question at all I'm afraid Matt, but I'm sure at some point in the 1980s Preston was actually the busiest bus station in the UK, can anyone confirm this? I suspect it was at the time when the town was full of 'Zippy' minibuses operating on routes on a frequency of every 4 or 5 minutes.

 

[WestCoast]

The interior isn't very pleasant at all If I am honest. Cold, bleak with a few shifty characters around at certain times. It just isn't a nice place to spend time in IMO.

Nothing a thorough interior refurbishment couldn't solve in my opinion. It doesn't have to be demolished. It's an impressive structure that should be retained, it's far more attractive (from the outside at least) than other buildings from that era.

 

[PRBusStation]

Hi MattE2010,

I represent the Save Preston Bus Station website. There's been no news on the Tithebarn development for some months now. The plan has been to clear Preston Bus Station, and many lesser buildings, and replace the whole area with a generic shopping development similar to Liverpool One.

Over time, mainly due to the economic crisis, the developers have changed and the plans have stalled. The proposed replacement for the bus station, which was parallel to the current one but only 36 bay, has been scrapped. Most of it's funding was coming from the NWDA which has been disbanded.

Earlier in the year the developers and the council announced that they were going to be taking another look at the plans for the development but there has been no news. These meetings take place behind closed doors and there are no minutes available to the press or public.

The bus station's original architects BDP, or Building Design Partnership, are the same architecture firm who designed the bus station 41 years ago. They were founded in Preston, by a man born in Preston so they have local roots. They are currently celebrating their 50th Anniversary and are running a contest to find their most popular building - Preston Bus Station is currently in 3rd place.

No one is suggesting that the bus station be kept as memorial to the past, after all it is in dire need of refurbishment and modernisation following 41 years of underfunding, neglect and mismanagement. There have already been some exciting suggestions about how the bus station could be integrated into the proposed redevelopment - we can only hope that the developers rise to the challenge and make the brave decision to update their "neglected gem".

Apologies for the link heavy posting but I hope it goes some way to answering your question and that it promotes discussion about this iconic building and vital public transport facility.

As a final plug please can I also mention that there is a Facebook Page dedicated to the campaign.

 

[radamfi]

Not very convenient for the rail station.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Not very convenient for the rail station.

Not a bad walk though, I'll say that much. Trouble is, it's the closest you are ever likely to get to the railway station, most of the land in between is built on, and occupied by shops and shopping centres.

Now, in Blackburn, the bus and rail stations are about 20 yards entrance to entrance as things stand. There are plans to move the bus station to the site of the old market, about 1/4-3/8 of a mile away...

 

[WestCoast]

Not a bad walk though, I'll say that much. Trouble is, it's the closest you are ever likely to get to the railway station, most of the land in between is built on, and occupied by shops and shopping centres.

Now, in Blackburn, the bus and rail stations are about 20 yards entrance to entrance as things stand. There are plans to move the bus station to the site of the old market, about 1/4-3/8 of a mile away...

In the name of bus-train integration (something which the UK doesn't generally do well admittedly) the closer to the rail station the better. Chorley and Clitheroe "interchanges" aren't bad examples, although the latter isn't much of a station.

Although, I accept Preston can't really be moved closer (nor should the iconic building be demolished), that was just perhaps a mistake made in the past.

 

[Statto]

The interior isn't very pleasant at all If I am honest. Cold, bleak with a few shifty characters around at certain times. It just isn't a nice place to spend time in IMO.

Nothing a thorough interior refurbishment couldn't solve in my opinion. It doesn't have to be demolished. It's an impressive structure that should be retained, it's far more attractive (from the outside at least) than other buildings from that era.

I agree, it's a horrible bus station, especially at night, & the worst thing about it are the subways leading to the bus station, i always feel like i'm going to get mugged using those subways, so i tend to cross the busway, playing Chicken with vehicle movements, & a bit of a distance fron the rail station.

 

[PRBusStation]

Not very convenient for the rail station.

The quick response is "Does that really matter?" but I'll elaborate.

It's less than 1 mile from the train station, granted it's not integrated directly but that's nothing that a shuttle bus service couldn't remedy, however it would probably be quicker to walk during busier times on the roads.

Liverpool's John Lennon International has neither direct rail links nor an integrated bus station. Southport train station.....well Southport doesn't even have a bus station. Blackburn doesn't have a bus station, it has a collection of shelters opposite it's train station.

The council have already concluded that there just isn't any land by the train station available for a bus station.* Their abandoned plans to replace the bus station (there is now no planned replacement) was to build a new 36 bay bus station parallel to the current facility (<200m away) equidistant to the train station.

Article: Is Preston bus station in the wrong place?

*They did have a report containing details of the land around the train station here but their whole website is down at the moment.

I agree, it's a horrible bus station, especially at night, & the worst thing about it are the subways leading to the bus station, i always feel like i'm going to get mugged using those subways, so i tend to cross the busway, playing Chicken with vehicle movements, & a bit of a distance fron the rail station.

Time & history have clearly judged the subways as a mistake, ground level access and a pedestrian crossing were introduced several years ago now. The crossings are extremely ugly yet functional - hopefully if the bus station is modernised and partially re-purposed these will be improved or made totally redundant with buses only accessing one "pedestrian-less" side of the station.

 

[Butts]

The quick response is "Does that really matter?" but I'll elaborate.

It's less than 1 mile from the train station, granted it's not integrated directly but that's nothing that a shuttle bus service couldn't remedy, however it would probably be quicker to walk during busier times on the roads.

Liverpool's John Lennon International has neither direct rail links nor an integrated bus station. Southport train station.....well Southport doesn't even have a bus station. Blackburn doesn't have a bus station, it has a collection of shelters opposite it's train station.

The council have already concluded that there just isn't any land by the train station available for a bus station.* Their abandoned plans to replace the bus station (there is now no planned replacement) was to build a new 36 bay bus station parallel to the current facility (<200m away) equidistant to the train station.

Article: Is Preston bus station in the wrong place?

*They did have a report containing details of the land around the train station here but their whole website is down at the moment.

Falkirk Bus Sation is between the two Railway Stations we have which are a good hike.

A Bus service connects all three

 

[WestCoast]

The quick response is "Does that really matter?" but I'll elaborate.

If the UK had an integrated transport system where bus and rail worked together and complimented and coordinated with each other as a public service rather than being disjointed and competing against each other (in certain places) then yes, it would matter a great deal. That isn't the transport culture that exists though, partly thanks to a lack of regulation.

I'd argue the planners of the 1960s in Britain weren't bothered too much about public transport in the provinces. And bus and rail are ran separately in the UK, so no in Preston's case it shouldn't be too much of an issue. A shuttle bus could perform the task for those with mobility issues or the walk will remain. It's not all that far really, if you are able-bodied.

Or perhaps the tram will link the two eventually?

 

[radamfi]

Is integrated transport important? Has Britain got it right in choosing not to integrate? There must be an advantage in not integrating.

 

[WestCoast]

Is integrated transport important? Has Britain got it right in choosing not to integrate? There must be an advantage in not integrating.

I'd obviously argue it's stupid not to make an attempt at encouraging through journeys facilitated by schemes like plusbus and possibly coordinated timetables e.t.c, because trains are not usually going to be door-to-door. People may instead choose to park their cars at the station instead of catching the bus.

Which leads me to a feature of Preston bus station, the upper floors are a very large car park, which does indeed again say something about '60s transport planning. I'm not saying it is a bad thing, but I think it seems rather on the large side. It used to be free to park there on sundays a few years ago, but it isn't anymore AFAIK.

 

[PRBusStation]

I'd obviously argue it's stupid not to make an attempt at encouraging through journeys facilitated by schemes like plusbus and possibly coordinated timetables e.t.c, because trains are not usually going to be door-to-door. People may instead choose to park their cars at the station instead of catching the bus.

Which leads me to a feature of Preston bus station, the upper floors are a very large car park, which does indeed again say something about '60s transport planning. I'm not saying it is a bad thing, but I think it seems rather on the large side. It used to be free to park there on sundays a few years ago, but it isn't anymore AFAIK.

They've played around with free parking around Christmas in a bid to bring more shoppers in. As it's a council owned car park it seems reasonable to me. I've often wondered how revenue would be impacted if they decided not to charge for parking rather than employing wardens and maintaining machines. Would the wider economic benefit be worth it?

With regards to plusbus, a train ticket from some stations to Southport will often result in passengers disembarking the train in Preston and then getting an express Stagecoach service for the remainder of their journey - there is a bus stop outside the train station on the main road.

 

[radamfi]

Would we even be debating whether the bus station should be near the rail station if Preston was in other parts of Europe? Obviously it wouldn't have been built so far from the station in the first place in, say, the Netherlands, but if for some bizarre reason they had the current Preston situation they would think nothing of tearing down the Fishergate Centre and putting the bus station there. What would a Dutch person think of the British mentality if he read this thread? It sometimes feels very embarrassing to be British!

 

[WestCoast]

They've played around with free parking around Christmas in a bid to bring more shoppers in. As it's a council owned car park it seems reasonable to me. I've often wondered how revenue would be impacted if they decided not to charge for parking rather than employing wardens and maintaining machines. Would the wider economic benefit be worth it?

Not charging for parking would be a very bold step indeed (I'm not sure that any city councils offer full-time free multi-story parking) and I'm not convinced it would send out the right message about public transport use. Perhaps if they didn't patrol very much, but still kept it as pay and display? I don't know what is best.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would we even be debating whether the bus station should be near the rail station if Preston was in other parts of Europe? Obviously it wouldn't have been built so far from the station in the first place in, say, the Netherlands, but if for some bizarre reason they had the current Preston situation they would think nothing of tearing down the Fishergate Centre and putting the bus station there. What would a Dutch person think of the British mentality if he read this thread? It sometimes feels very embarrassing to be British!

It's a very different transport culture even in London. I wouldn't even bother going into this, full integration is never going to happen in non-PTE areas and even then it's a struggle. It's quite obvious that Preston's priorities are new shopping facilities with the Tithebarn Project (something that I believe Blackburn detest), rather than a desire to improve public transport.

 

[radamfi]

I spent an hour in the bus drivers' messroom upstairs in Preston Bus Station in 1994ish when there was a Stagecoach Express coach network which was supposed to connect in Preston but the service to Manchester didn't wait for the one from Lancaster. So they let me sit upstairs, offered me a cup of tea and gave me a free Explorer as compensation.

 

[PRBusStation]

Would we even be debating whether the bus station should be near the rail station if Preston was in other parts of Europe? Obviously it wouldn't have been built so far from the station in the first place in, say, the Netherlands, but if for some bizarre reason they had the current Preston situation they would think nothing of tearing down the Fishergate Centre and putting the bus station there. What would a Dutch person think of the British mentality if he read this thread? It sometimes feels very embarrassing to be British!

The cost of purchasing the privately owned Fishergate Centre would be astronomical, there is the problem of trapping buses in the current Fishergate one way system and by the time Tithebarn is built it would be at the OTHER end of town where the current bus station is, about 0.7miles away, leaving the bus station and the train station at "the wrong end" of town.

At the risk of overplugging I'd really encourage a read of "Is Preston Bus Station in the wrong place?" Even if you can argue that it is in the wrong place now the reason it is threatened is to build a massive city centre retail scheme - if it remained in place then it would be at the centre of that - perhaps in the "right place" again. It doesn't have to be a bus station OR retail development. The two could exist together, especially since it's the original architect firm who designed the bus station who are also responsible for designing the new development. If their buildings only have a 41 year old shelf life then it does not bode well for the future!

Westcoast, I particularly liked your post #13 and your arguments, they made good sense.

 

[WestCoast]

From a practical and logical point of view for the bus access, you are correct, the bus station can't move. However, I think myself and Radamfi were talking about ideals rather than Preston as a specific case.

I've had a quick read of your piece on the bus station's location. You make some important points very specific to Preston and the infamous planners of the 1960s. Also, the fact that the bus station will be at the heart of the new development, is also key.

Perhaps the rail station will then be in the wrong place? Although, not much can be done about that...

 

[Statto]

Preston bus station should be demolished, & rebuilt as a modern bus station, bit like the bus station part of Bradford Interchange, were the old bus station was demolished, with a new bus station built on the same site, with all stands under one roof, the roof a lot higher allowing natural light, also automatic doors which open only when a bus is at the stand.

 

[radamfi]

You could reroute most if not all buses so they pass the station and the town centre. That is what happens in the usual countries. Some buses do that anyway. You don't necessarily need a bus station as such. Obviously deregulated operators wouldn't bother to do that so a Quality Contract would be required for this.

 

[snail]

It's less than 1 mile from the train station, granted it's not integrated directly but that's nothing that a shuttle bus service couldn't remedy

Or a tram?

 

[driver9000]

I have never liked Preston bus station. I think it should be pulled down and then rebuilt as a proper modern facility. It is a horrible, dingy, smelly (or have they managed to get rid of that musty rubbery smell now?) place to be in, driving a bus around the station was a nightmare too.

 

[Whistler40145]

I agree that Preston Bus Station isn't very pleasant & needs pulling down!

 

[PRBusStation]

I agree that Preston Bus Station is far from perfect internally but would argue for modernisation rather than demolition.

There is no replacement planned.

 

[Whistler40145]

At least Preston has a Bus Station, unlike Blackpool!

 

[robertclark125]

At least Preston has a Bus Station, unlike Blackpool!

Blackpool had a bus station, although it was dingy, and dirty. There were no footways to walk on, so you literally had to stand on the concourse to await your bus. The stances were the pillars supporting the car park above.

Compared to that, what Preston has right now may not be ideal, but is a palace compared to what Blackpool had.

 

[Whistler40145]

Even though I am a Blackpool Lad, I agree that the Bus Station was a dingy dump. it's absolutely shocking that we no longer use the Bus Station as most stops are scattered around the Town Centre.

I daren't think what impression we give out to Visitors!

 

[WestCoast]

Even though I am a Blackpool Lad, I agree that the Bus Station was a dingy dump. it's absolutely shocking that we no longer use the Bus Station as most stops are scattered around the Town Centre.

I believe the plan is that it will be demolished as part of the "Talbot Gateway" (or something like that) project.

Locally, Lancaster's bus station is quite good, not too far from the railway station (although not that close) and reasonable inside.

 

[exile]

Would we even be debating whether the bus station should be near the rail station if Preston was in other parts of Europe? Obviously it wouldn't have been built so far from the station in the first place in, say, the Netherlands, but if for some bizarre reason they had the current Preston situation they would think nothing of tearing down the Fishergate Centre and putting the bus station there. What would a Dutch person think of the British mentality if he read this thread? It sometimes feels very embarrassing to be British!

To be fair, the bus station is central and the railway station isn't.