Preserving A Class 60. Is it possible.

[OverlordBWT]

Toton is relatively near to me and its a graveyard for these things. And ive met loads of people who share the idea that these are in their on way iconic locomotives. And I haven't seen any preservation effort for them?

Is this due to the fact these are now part of a bygone era or are we just not interested enough to save one?

Many thanks

 

[JonathanH]

Is this due to the fact these are now part of a bygone era or are we just not interested enough to save one?

The challenge with preservation of more recent equipment is often obsolete electronic equipment, in contrast to steam locomotives which are purely mechanical.

I think this is your initial answer - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/preserved-class-60s.258731/#post-6522563

 

[zwk500]

Toton is relatively near to me and its a graveyard for these things. And ive met loads of people who share the idea that these are in their on way iconic locomotives. And I haven't seen any preservation effort for them?

Is this due to the fact these are now part of a bygone era or are we just not interested enough to save one?

Many thanks

You might preserve one for the national collection but theyre not sexy or glamorous and will be a financial pit to keep running.

Maybe plinth one at a station they used to pass often.

 

[D6130]

At least one - if not two - class 60s were preserved on the Wensleydale Railway....but the owners allegedly ran out of cash and they are now languishing in a haulage/scrap yard at Kinsley in West Yorkshire, very close to the Doncaster-Leeds line. One of them - 60 050 "Roseberry Topping" - is the first one that I ever drove when I was at Skipton.

 

[D365]

At least one - if not two - class 60s were preserved on the Wensleydale Railway....but the owners allegedly ran out of cash and they are now languishing in a haulage/scrap yard at Kinsley in West Yorkshire, very close to the Doncaster-Leeds line.

Thanks. I was wondering why 050 and 086 had ended up at Kinsley (although I am aware that the purported new owner is based there).

 

[Cowley]

The challenge with preservation of more recent equipment is often obsolete electronic equipment, in contrast to steam locomotives which are purely mechanical.

As it’s a subject that’s come up before, we’ve started a new thread on it:

Obsolescence of electronic components on early computer era traction

I particularly remember reading a comment from a senior BR engineer involved in the cl. 74 project, along the lines of 'never again' as far as doing that sort of major conversion. mods note - split from here I seem to remember reading that a contributing factor in the lack of reliability was...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[43096]

The challenge with preservation of more recent equipment is often obsolete electronic equipment, in contrast to steam locomotives which are purely mechanical.

True. But the same was probably said about first generation diesels being more complicated than kettles. Experience of people changes over time, so there are those who have knowledge of electronics - the 60s are 30+ years old, so many who worked on them will be getting older.

 

[overthere 2]

The challenge with preservation of more recent equipment is often obsolete electronic equipment, in contrast to steam locomotives which are purely mechanical.

I think this is your initial answer - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/preserved-class-60s.258731/#post-6522563

One of the countless problems of electric cars is that back in the day you could just drive an old car down to the scarp yard, pretty much just chuck it in the crusher, make it in to a cube, then send that cube off to a factory to make a can of beans.

But with electric cars they have to be properly stripped down which is time consuming and expensive and all the battery and electrics disposed of carefully before you can take the easy and profitable metal.

So perhaps what could happen is, when a modern'ish locos service comes to an end and it is time for it to be scrapped it could be parked somewhere and then properly trained/still in work/retired heritage railway volunteers (electricians mechanics engineers etc) could be invited to come and carefully remove all the electrical bits and other unique/difficult to source parts so the operator is just left with an easy to recycle metal shell.

The parts can then be immediately put on another locomotive or catalogued, properly packaged and stored in a warehouse somewhere that maybe each heritage railway could put a percentage of there operating profits in to to cover the costs, there then could be a website where when a railway/group need an "old new" electrical item/rare part they can look on the website and buy the part with the money being used to keep the whole thing going.

The whole thing would be run as not for profit then that way there might be options for grants/charity status as it is preserving Britain's railway heritage.

 

[D365]

So perhaps what could happen is, when a modern'ish locos service comes to an end and it is time for it to be scrapped it could be parked somewhere and then properly trained/still in work/retired heritage railway volunteers (electricians mechanics engineers etc) could be invited to come and carefully remove all the electrical bits and other unique/difficult to source parts so the operator is just left with an easy to recycle metal shell.

Volunteer hours are a precious resource. Would this really be the best way to deploy a volunteer workforce? As opposed to working directly 'for' a heritage railway or rolling stock concern.

The whole thing would be run as not for profit then that way there might be options for grants/charity status as it is preserving Britain's railway heritage.

How would this idea contribute towards the running of heritage railways and heritage rolling stock?

 

[43096]

One of the countless problems of electric cars is that back in the day you could just drive an old car down to the scarp yard, pretty much just chuck it in the crusher, make it in to a cube, then send that cube off to a factory to make a can of beans.

But with electric cars they have to be properly stripped down which is time consuming and expensive and all the battery and electrics disposed of carefully before you can take the easy and profitable metal.

So perhaps what could happen is, when a modern'ish locos service comes to an end and it is time for it to be scrapped it could be parked somewhere and then properly trained/still in work/retired heritage railway volunteers (electricians mechanics engineers etc) could be invited to come and carefully remove all the electrical bits and other unique/difficult to source parts so the operator is just left with an easy to recycle metal shell.

The parts can then be immediately put on another locomotive or catalogued, properly packaged and stored in a warehouse somewhere that maybe each heritage railway could put a percentage of there operating profits in to to cover the costs, there then could be a website where when a railway/group need an "old new" electrical item/rare part they can look on the website and buy the part with the money being used to keep the whole thing going.

The whole thing would be run as not for profit then that way there might be options for grants/charity status as it is preserving Britain's railway heritage.

TBH, I don't think you know how preservation "works". Why would anyone be interested in going and helping with that unless they had a direct interest in the parts being removed?

 

[Acathater]

You'd have a devil of a job proving and maintaining the source of origin of the recovered parts: you'd never be able to provide a safety case for operation of the locomotives on the mainline, and probably not on a preserved line.
Non-starter I think

 

[overthere 2]

Volunteer hours are a precious resource. Would this really be the best way to deploy a volunteer workforce? As opposed to working directly 'for' a heritage railway or rolling stock concern.

How would this idea contribute towards the running of heritage railways and heritage rolling stock?

The best way to answer your questions is with a scenario.

As the original thread was about a class 60 (c60) I will use that as an example

A heritage railway or a group (HR/G) decide they want to preserve a c60 so they get hold of one from wherever, and a bit like restoring an old car that car look's good in the advert and when you see it in the metal, but it is only when you get it home and start stripping it down you start finding the hidden rust, engine/gearbox/suspension issues broken or missing parts and all the other thing's so what you thought would only be a couple of hours tinkering would actually be years and years of a full nut and bolt restoration.

So the HR/G get the loco back to their base and find that it may have been in good working order/a bit worn out when it was put up for sale but since then it has been sitting about in the sun/rain/frost/snow and because it has ben left sitting it has developed a whole host of issues/parts broken or it has been cannibalised for spares so they have only "50% serviceable parts"

So the HR/G contact a company called, for example www.weselltrainspares.co.uk (WSTS) who have a massive warehouse full of loco/carriage/wagon (LCW) spares which they have collected together which is run as a co-operative with all the heritage railways owning a share and providing labour to do the stripping, for example the nearest HR/G to the LCW being offered does the stripping .

See this link for Arla dairies as an example: https://www.arlafoods.co.uk/about-arla/who-we-are/arla-farmer-owned-cooperative/

Sadly at this point WSTS have not got any c60 spares.

At the same time a company that operates c60s wants to get rid of them and replace them with new locos but a scrap dealer would pay them more if they can provide a bare metal shell that can be immediately crushed and be made in to baked bean cans rather than full of electrical and other bits and pieces that have to be separated and disposed of carefully.

So they contact WSTS and WSTS arrange for some people from the HR/G who are perhaps retired/still working but volunter mechanics/engineers/electricians etc to go where the LCW is parked and strip it completely, doing it carefully and tidily so good for future cooperation.

The HR/G strip 100% of the parts, take 50% home with them to put in their loco and the other 50% are given to WSTS to be sorted, catalogued and stored correctly.

Later on another HR/G decide they want to preserve a c60 so they contact WSTS and WSTS has now got the parts needed which are sold at a reasonable price with all profit's going back in to the warehouse to keep it going.

This means everybody's happy because:

The HR/G are happy because they have preserved two c60s

The company that sold the c60s are happy because they sold the loco to a scrapman for a higher price.

The scrapman is happy because he gets a loco that he can quickly scrap and sell with/less no overheads so makes more money quicker.

and the enthusiasts particularly of the future are happy because they get to see two genuine c60s in the metal rather than in old pictures or having to spend many millions and years building a replica (Tornado for example).

TBH, I don't think you know how preservation "works". Why would anyone be interested in going and helping with that unless they had a direct interest in the parts being removed?

The person may have no interest in diesel but if in the future they need parts for a coach/wagon for example then they will be grateful that a diesel fan put themselevs out to help strip a coach/wagon

You'd have a devil of a job proving and maintaining the source of origin of the recovered parts: you'd never be able to provide a safety case for operation of the locomotives on the mainline, and probably not on a preserved line.
Non-starter I think

I do agree that it might mean the loco could never run on the main line but I'm guessing a lot of steam locomotive's and diesel's that run today and in the future on heritage railways are mostly "Triggers brooms" anyway so I don't think it would be an issue.