Preserved railways seeming like the real thing.

[Cowley]

It's often said by people that remember steam (and this doesn't have to be just about steam), that preserved railways are nothing like it used to be in the days of everyday steam still working on the network.
I'm sure this is true, but having never experienced working steam (being born in 1973) on BR other than modern day railtours with clean locomotives and people everywhere taking photos of the train as it's a bit special, it's not always possible to completely imagine what it must have been like.
However there's been the odd moment when I felt I was looking through a probably slightly too clean window into the past.

One was on the Jacobite coming back from Mallaig behind a Black 5 a few years ago, yes there were modern day tourists on the train but none in the front vestibule where I listened to the loco make an absolutely tremendous noise charging the various banks and working it's socks off in a way that you don't experience on a preserved line generally.
The loco and stock had a slight patina of muck on them too which helped with the overall effect.

Another one: While volunteering at the Mid Hants in the early 90s I offered to help drop some ballast one evening with the PW gang after the services had finished for the day, I'd spent two weeks of my annual leave working hard up there and it was my last day there. Unusually they used the Standard 76017 for the job rather than one of the diesels and we all jumped in the brake van and headed down to Butts junction near Alton, we dropped the ballast at slow speed and headed back, I rode back on the loco, there was no one around taking photos, it felt to me as 'real' as it could be.
I've got a few others too but I wondered what moments others might have experienced of the old railway slightly showing it's face?
And for folks who remember 'real steam'. Am I miles out? You can shatter my dreams if you want, I think I can take it.

 

[paul1609]

Does it really matter? Ive had teenagers on the footplate firing a small tank engine and 5 mk1 coaches up Tenterden Bank on the K&ESR. Its a real struggle (note the position of the regulator) but there is a certain look its a mixture of Ive done it ((achievement) and Ive done it (relief) and it didn't all go horribly wrong. When you see that look you know they've got it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehVajuz9Wgs . This is Greg now living in New Zealand North island.

 

[Cowley]

Does it really matter? Ive had teenagers on the footplate firing a small tank engine and 5 mk1 coaches up Tenterden Bank on the K&ESR. Its a real struggle (note the position of the regulator) but there is a certain look its a mixture of Ive done it ((achievement) and Ive done it (relief) and it didn't all go horribly wrong. When you see that look you know they've got it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehVajuz9Wgs . This is Greg now living in New Zealand North island.

Yes. I don't wish to run down preserved railways in any way as I am a huge fan and I'm constantly amazed at what's been achieved.
Heritage railways have created their own history lasting decades and many were established long before I was even thought about. I'm just asking something I've often wondered about.
I'll watch that in a bit when I get a chance Paul.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I suggest that the SVR Autumn Steam Gala with overnight running produces some of the most 'realistically atmospheric' moments possible.

At the 2015 event I boarded a GNR teak compartment coach at around midnight, travelled for half-an-hour or so through the dark with lights dimmed and steam heat on full blast, the sounds of a 'lively' run coming through the ceiling vents. Arriving at a wayside station, I alighted onto the cold, lamp-lit platform and watched a porter help unload two shipping trunks from the guards van, before whistles were blown and the train struggled away into the night. I was left on the platform listening to the train hammering away up the valley for a good 15-20 mins, the clanging of block bells in the signal box opposite, and two owls hooting across the station. When it got too cold, I went and sat in the waiting room with a log fire for company.

To me you can't get much more real than that. My Dad thought the rake of teaks under the little canopy with a stack of luggage being unloaded while steam swirled up from under the platform semi-illuminated by pseudo 'gas' lamps reminded him of overnight ECML in the 1950s.

 

[Cowley]

You paint a very atmospheric picture Wilts wanderer. I've been on steam at night a few times and to see the glow of the firebox and hear the noise on a still night is a wonderful thing.
Last year (this is a diesel moment actually) during the diesel gala Mrs C and I walked up to a little farm crossing near Hampton Loade where we were staying in the van, we had a bottle of wine with us, it was dusk and there was nobody else around. Around the corner going towards Bridgenorth 31162 appeared with a short rake of rusty ballast wagons and with its headcodes lit up. The driver tooted for the crossing and gave us a little wave as it growled away into the gathering dark.
It could have been thirty years ago and it was very nostalgic.

 

[yorksrob]

I always think that Bury Bolton Street has a wonderfully authentic 1970's/80's BR feel (probably because it was BR until the 1980's). It's probably why its my favourite preserved railway station.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

You paint a very atmospheric picture Wilts wanderer. I've been on steam at night a few times and to see the glow of the firebox and hear the noise on a still night is a wonderful thing.
Last year (this is a diesel moment actually) during the diesel gala Mrs C and I walked up to a little farm crossing near Hampton Loade where we were staying in the van, we had a bottle of wine with us, it was dusk and there was nobody else around. Around the corner going towards Bridgenorth 31162 appeared with a short rake of rusty ballast wagons and with its headcodes lit up. The driver tooted for the crossing and gave us a little wave as it growled away into the gathering dark.
It could have been thirty years ago and it was very nostalgic.

You really cannot beat railways at night. I can understand why people were so disappointed that the 2016 event was effectively cancelled.

 

[cin88]

I always think that Bury Bolton Street has a wonderfully authentic 1970's/80's BR feel (probably because it was BR until the 1980's). It's probably why its my favourite preserved railway station.

To be fair, the OP's original point could apply to most of the diesel fleet down at the ELR. Some of the locos are just impossible to make look clean. Around this time last year I spent an early afternoon washing 37109 with it's owner, the damn thing still looked dirty after we'd finished

Side note: if you see a fat, short, dirty blonde haired fellow sat around on a platform in blue overalls and bump cap holding a hi viz vest he's been told off for wearing on station (especially during big events), it's most likely me on a break from the sheds/yards. Pop over and say hello, I can't stand sitting in the mess on nice days.

 

[yorksrob]

To be fair, the OP's original point could apply to most of the diesel fleet down at the ELR. Some of the locos are just impossible to make look clean. Around this time last year I spent an early afternoon washing 37109 with it's owner, the damn thing still looked dirty after we'd finished

Side note: if you see a fat, short, dirty blonde haired fellow sat around on a platform in blue overalls and bump cap holding a hi viz vest he's been told off for wearing on station (especially during big events), it's most likely me on a break from the sheds/yards. Pop over and say hello, I can't stand sitting in the mess on nice days but.

Many thanks, I will do

I lived in Kent during the 90's when everything was covered in grime due to a long hosepipe ban (which seemed to affect the carriage washers as well) so I wouldn't expect everything to look shiny all the time !

 

[Flying Phil]

I agree with the comments that we are indeed very fortunate to have so much "Preserved" steam on our heritage lines. I was a teenager in the 60's and spent quite a lot of time in search of steam on various school organised "Shed Bashes". The sheds and locomotives were Filthy - as was much of the railway infrastructure.
Certainly that aspect - years of grime, is difficult to recreate and would put off the vast majority of the paying public.
However, a quiet spot in the dark, the smell and sound of a steam engine, the glow from the firebox reflected in the exhaust steam....pure magic.

 

[steamybrian]

Many times recently when travelling on class 207 unit no. 1317 on the Spa Valley Railway brought back memories of travelling on the same unit on the same line before closure by BR in 1985. Where else has readers of this forum travelled on the same unit or pulled by the same loco along the same line in pre- preservation days.?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not quite the same thing, but I find that due to the modern infrastructure, the long trains, primarily island platforms, low platforms, the fact that it runs (sort of) through one of the WHR(P) stations without stopping, buffet service etc, the WHR(C) has a bit of a "European scenic single track mainline" feel about it, just a bit scaled down.

 

[Cowley]

Many times recently when travelling on class 207 unit no. 1317 on the Spa Valley Railway brought back memories of travelling on the same unit on the same line before closure by BR in 1985. Where else has readers of this forum travelled on the same unit or pulled by the same loco along the same line in pre- preservation days.?

Right train right line would make quite a good subject on its own.
Another similar one is the class 205 - 1125 at the Mid Hants, it worked on the line from 1960 right up to the end of BR services, it even worked on the last day I think.

 

[Firesprite]

Right train right line would make quite a good subject on its own.
Another similar one is the class 205 - 1125 at the Mid Hants, it worked on the line from 1960 right up to the end of BR services, it even worked on the last day I think.

LSWR M7 (30053) on the Swanage railway, Worked many services on the branch and the old road for over 30 years before being replaced in 1964 by Standard 2MT engines. In a few years you be able to travel in Push/Pull coaches used on the branch and the old road in 50's and 60's. It is a shame that Swanage does not have its own trumper.

 

[Flying Phil]

Witherslack Hall on the GCR is authentic as it was there for the " Locomotive Exchanges". I'm not sure if any of the preserved Black Five's or 8F's or 9F's ran on the GCR though....

 

[Cowley]

Witherslack Hall on the GCR is authentic as it was there for the " Locomotive Exchanges". I'm not sure if any of the preserved Black Five's or 8F's or 9F's ran on the GCR though....

The GCR gave me a moment a few years ago that bought by youth flooding back. I was up there at a diesel gala with a mate and we were passing Swithland sidings going towards Leicester at about 25mph, just sitting at a table sipping a beer when a 37 stormed past going in the opposite direction and made the pair of us jump in that way that we used to do when it was commonplace years ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I always think that Bury Bolton Street has a wonderfully authentic 1970's/80's BR feel (probably because it was BR until the 1980's). It's probably why its my favourite preserved railway station.

I've not been there yet but whenever I see photos of Bury Bolton St it really looks the part. Especially with a blue loco and blue and grey stock in it. I really must get up there soon (better say hello to cin88 too, I hear he hangs out there with a viz vest on)

 

[341o2]

LSWR M7 (30053) on the Swanage railway, Worked many services on the branch and the old road for over 30 years before being replaced in 1964 by Standard 2MT engines. In a few years you be able to travel in Push/Pull coaches used on the branch and the old road in 50's and 60's. It is a shame that Swanage does not have its own trumper.

And as mentioned in 2017 gala thread, 80104 is to become 80146, use of Bullied pacifics on the branch is authentic, but one feature of the final years of steam was that cleaning was non existant, there is a photo of enthusiasts cleaning one loco's cab to see the number, nameplates were often removed due to risk of theft

I presume you mean Thumper

 

[Flying Phil]

A bit like this? - Nine Elms 1967

 

[Cowley]

A bit like this? - Nine Elms 1967

You couldn't really achieve that look with weathering powder. That's proper grime.
I bet she could still show a fair turn of speed though.
At the Mid Hants there were a few people that had been footplate crew in the late 60s at Nine Elms, I found their stories fascinating to listen to.
Look at all the dirt and general air of decay everywhere too.

 

[TBirdFrank]

2018 is the 50th anniversary of the end.

It will also be the last notable commemoration that many of those who were teenagers and more in 1968 will likely see.

No doubt there will be lots of highly priced dining excursions, but how will they recreate the 20.55 to Heysham. One notable had a limo sent to take him home to his bed. Us lesser mortals kipped in a brake van in Heysham yard on the last two nights before the early morning return to Manchester.

No-one would dare to do a "Leaving St Annes" today, Ian Riley would have a fit!

You couldn't do the Blackpool South cross platform charge to the DMU because you can't open sliding doors, or occupy the guards van after the guard threw us out of the unlit coach.

There are faint traces of real steam experience today, but they are fleeting and getting rarer all the time. I wish I could bottle standing by the Brown Cow at Burrs around two a.m. some years ago during the winter steam gala overnighter after a snowstorm had frozen everything into silence and listening to 45407 work up to Summerseat - but that's not economic now - according to the bean counters.

And there won't be three years of colliery playtime that we had then at Astley - eight miles and three J94s - wonderful and unrepeatable times.

And no pen pushing bureaucracy that thought it was management in those days either.

Sorry to burst a few bubbles but what is gone is gone - Thank God I saw it!

 

[eMeS]

Back in the 1940s my local city terminus was Manchester Central and I can remember the smell of steam, sweaty horses, smoke, rotting fish, straw, horse manure, tobacco smoke etc. That's got to be better than the smell of diesel fumes today at Euston.

 

[4141]

In this case the loco may not have been authentic, but the feeling certainly was - some years back we'd been at a West Somerset gala and had parked at Stogumber, where we got off the last service train of the day. However we'd somehow picked up that a visiting 4F would be working back with empty stock from Minehead to Bishop's Lydeard so we hung around after almost everyone else had gone, and sure enough half an hour or so later were rewarded by the sound of an approaching train in the dark, whistling up and passing the now deserted station. Why does it always sound even better at night?
BTW thoroughly agree on the SVR overnights, going up Eardington bank at 3.30am or so with an enthusiastic crew up front is a memory that lingers!

 

[341o2]

You couldn't really achieve that look with weathering powder. That's proper grime.
I bet she could still show a fair turn of speed though.
At the Mid Hants there were a few people that had been footplate crew in the late 60s at Nine Elms, I found their stories fascinating to listen to.
Look at all the dirt and general air of decay everywhere too.

During the final months of Southern steam, there were several attempts to do the "ton", no mean feat with engines mechanically run down, no special paths. Some have said that this was the Bulleid's finest hour. And the speed limit was 85mph.

Another feat was undertaken by driver Fegg, who decided to beat the Lymington branch train into Brockenhurst. At this time, the branch was not self contained, so this meant passing Lymington Junction box several minutes ahead of schedule. At last, he was rostered an engine which he thought up to the task. The departure from Bournemouth was spectacular to say the least, cinders rained down everywhere, and the crew of another engine took cover. Enthusiasts travelling informed members of the public what was afoot.

Success. When the Lymington train arrived at Brockenhurst, their connection had already arrived. This timing was only surpassed after electrics took over

Then there was the driver who was due to retire, emotions got the better of him, and he went through Beaulieu Rd without stopping. Cue taxis for the stranded passengers

 

[LowLevel]

Standing on the bridge at Arley in the thick fog on an SVR overnight as a goods rolled in, shortly joined by a rake of Gresley teaks crossing it.

Being on a beerex in a mark one compartment with a Deltic on the front howling away in the dark making an extremely liberal interpretation of the speed limit.

Standing at Quorn having a beer in the twilight when Leander came through on a TPO, Stanier hooter howling and a dearly missed now departed ex BR man on the regulator, eyes fixed on the starter (I think our modern driver managers call it Target Fixing now!) with a goods recessed in the down lie by siding.

Just once in a while something happens that makes my spine tingle.

 

[Phil.]

During the final months of Southern steam, there were several attempts to do the "ton", no mean feat with engines mechanically run down, no special paths. Some have said that this was the Bulleid's finest hour. And the speed limit was 85mph.

Another feat was undertaken by driver Fegg, who decided to beat the Lymington branch train into Brockenhurst. At this time, the branch was not self contained, so this meant passing Lymington Junction box several minutes ahead of schedule. At last, he was rostered an engine which he thought up to the task. The departure from Bournemouth was spectacular to say the least, cinders rained down everywhere, and the crew of another engine took cover. Enthusiasts travelling informed members of the public what was afoot.

Success. When the Lymington train arrived at Brockenhurst, their connection had already arrived. This timing was only surpassed after electrics took over

Then there was the driver who was due to retire, emotions got the better of him, and he went through Beaulieu Rd without stopping. Cue taxis for the stranded passengers

Nine Elms driver Bert Hooker could tell a tale or two about what an M.N. could do.

 

[341o2]

My user ID is based on the last active unrebuilt WC on the SR, it has been recorded as doing the ton (albeit disputed) in June 1967 and reaching 98 or 99mph on another occasion during the final months of southern steam, even when being described as "knackered"

 

[pmh_74]

I had a memorable evening in Swithland signal box about 3-4 years ago when I was asked to keep the box open past the booked time because of a couple of charters. So we had the regular evening dining train, a separate wedding train and also a special for the DMU group, and a couple of them went up and down twice. Diner standing in the up loop with the loco simmering away, wedding charter steaming through one way shortly followed by DMU burbling through the other way, all in darkness so that the visual reminders of the modern age had disappeared... that was pretty special.

 

[Cowley]

I had a memorable evening in Swithland signal box about 3-4 years ago when I was asked to keep the box open past the booked time because of a couple of charters. So we had the regular evening dining train, a separate wedding train and also a special for the DMU group, and a couple of them went up and down twice. Diner standing in the up loop with the loco simmering away, wedding charter steaming through one way shortly followed by DMU burbling through the other way, all in darkness so that the visual reminders of the modern age had disappeared... that was pretty special.

Welcome pmh 74. It seems like certain railways, and from what others have said especially the GCR and the East Lancs for example, capture the atmosphere well at times and if you then throw in a quiet moment at night time, then even more so.

 

[MichaelWells]

I have seen footage of the last days on the Melton Constable to Cromer Branch of the M&GN, which is now the NNR, taken from a DMU, other than it continuing on beyond Holt there is nothing to show that it wasn't taken recently and digitally aged

 

[infobleep]

The day I will be able to catch a train to East Grinstead from Haywards Heath, perhaps changing at Horstead Keynes for the connecting service, in order to do some shopping in East Grinstead and then do the return later on, I will feel like I have travelled back in time. That is some years away but I'm ever hoping.

I'm sure there are other places I could go to to feel like I'm in the past.

Although not a heritage line, I did have one experience. Arriving into Canterbury in 2000 on a Steam Dreams Cathedrals Express tour.

There were weeds growing out of some of the track bed and the signals were all semaphore.

Of course being born in 1977 I can only imagine that it felt like going back into the past. None the less it did to me.

We were also late that day. Apparently stuck behind a late running Eurostar!