Preservation...Now!

[ModernRailways]

But you're still assuming that the market for preservation is enthusiasts. Primarily, it isn't. I can also assure you that non - enthusiast children come to heritage lines in droves, with their non - enthusiast parents. They're fascinated by the locos, and there's always a queue to have a look on the footplate, if we have chance (provided they bring their mummy with them!).

Yes, mostly because of things like Thomas the Tank. It's also somewhere for the parents to drag their kids along to during holidays and on weekends etc. just to get them out of the house. And being fascinated by the loco's depends on the child, some won't care in the slightest, whereas some would be like Wow! This is a lot bigger than other things and being right next to them etc. is also a big deal. Kids also get excited because it's kind of a game, in their minds they could be thinking of a game they could play and pretend. Now I've been to the NYMR and the majority of people there when I've been has been rail enthusiasts, but you get the odd family who go for a day out, and the kid decides they want a look on the footplate, because it's open and easily accessible. Most probably because its an experience. I still stand by my word that Steam will gradually decrease over time. The amount of steam hauled railtours is starting to dwindle ever so slowly now and I was talking to a driver of Spitfire Railtours and he was telling me, how there was supposed to of been a steam hauled railtour but they changed the traction to a 37, because there was more demand. I think the only way Steam is still surviving is because of the likes of 'The Flying Scotsman (4472)' and 'Tornado (60163)' and more, but there extremely popular even so East Coast has named a service after the Scotsman. My point is, Steam is going to decrease over time whether you like the idea or not. I can see where your coming from, but I think they're going to start to die out and just be stuck in sheds. I'd say you might only see 4 or 5 Steam services/railtours in about 40 to 60 years time. But, it depends on how they get advertised and whether they can do enough to do railtours around the country and get people's attention. I was there when Tornado came into Kings Cross and the atmosphere was magnificent, but again the majority of people there were 'getting on' and the kids that were there seemed to be on dads' shoulders looking and the dads grunting and groaning that they were waiting and wanted to get their seats. This is my opinion however.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Yes, mostly because of things like Thomas the Tank. It's also somewhere for the parents to drag their kids along to during holidays and on weekends etc. just to get them out of the house. .

Very few railways are bothering with Thomas now, due to the ridiculous restrictions and charges imposed by HIT Entertainment. But we're still seeing loads of kiddies...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Now I've been to the NYMR and the majority of people there when I've been has been rail enthusiasts

Was that on a Gala, more particularly a Diesel Gala?

That's the only time when that's normally the case. I can assure you that when I's sitting on my loco by the stops st Whitby, watching 400 - 500 passengers walk past it/ stop to admire it, they're largely just Jo Public on a day out. You don't get annual visitor numbers of 350000 just from enthusiasts, and if you do put stuff on for them, you get as many non - paying photographers as passengers.

If there's anyone on here from the SVR, WSR, FR, etc, I suspect that they would tell you the same thing.

Railtours - not my scene, but a lot of the marketing does seem to be pitched at the general market, especially the dining packages.

 

[Marvin]

I think the only way Steam is still surviving is because of the likes of 'The Flying Scotsman (4472)' and 'Tornado (60163)' and more, but there extremely popular even so East Coast has named a service after the Scotsman.

The locomotive was named after the service, not the other way around! "The Flying Scotsman" has been running between London and Edinburgh since 1862!

 

[ModernRailways]

The locomotive was named after the service, not the other way around! "The Flying Scotsman" has been running between London and Edinburgh since 1862!

I know, but my point was, was that East Coast have named an weekday service after it.

Very few railways are bothering with Thomas now, due to the ridiculous restrictions and charges imposed by HIT Entertainment. But we're still seeing loads of kiddies...

But Kids see it on the TV and then ask to see it in real life

Was that on a Gala, more particularly a Diesel Gala?

That's the only time when that's normally the case. I can assure you that when I's sitting on my loco by the stops st Whitby, watching 400 - 500 passengers walk past it/ stop to admire it, they're largely just Jo Public on a day out. You don't get annual visitor numbers of 350000 just from enthusiasts, and if you do put stuff on for them, you get as many non - paying photographers as passengers.

But like I mentioned it's either rail enthusiasts or families who just want to go on a day out. You rarely see just normal couples are totally uninterested by trains there. And no it wasn't on a gala, it was just a normal day. And with kids I doubt they'll grow up to like trains, I'm sure there are a ton of kids who will, but I realised that as a kid the majority of my friends had a model railway, and none of them like trains now. When I was in my primary school, we went to Tanfield and everybody was really excited, if my school were to go now, I doubt anyone would go!

Railtours - not my scene, but a lot of the marketing does seem to be pitched at the general market, especially the dining packages.

And Railtours I think are aimed at enthusiasts, but also people who want to just go on a holiday, as a lot of them now are holiday types where you get the train (steam or diesel) and then go somewhere and stay their for a day, then travel to the next place the next day. There are a lot of railtours doing that now. I personally think railtours are only popular when it's a famous loco, like Tornado, Flying Scotsman, a Black Five or a famous diesel like a 37 or 47 etc. Then again it depends on your taste, some people might just go for a railtour so they can have a nice day out, it all depends on the person.

 

[sprinterguy]

The amount of steam hauled railtours is starting to dwindle ever so slowly now and I was talking to a driver of Spitfire Railtours and he was telling me, how there was supposed to of been a steam hauled railtour but they changed the traction to a 37, because there was more demand.

With three or four (And sometimes more) steam charters running on the main line in various places round the country every weekend during the summer months, and a healthy smattering of tours during the less popular winter months, I certainly wouldn't say that there is a decrease in the number of steam hauled railtours. With the general increase in disposable income that many people have available to them (The depression has had a negative impact on this, but the trend year on year and decade on decade is still generally an upward one), I'd say that the steam railtour market is continuing to gain in popularity rather than waning: Regular, timetabled, weekly or daily steam hauled railtours such as the Scarborough Spa Express, The Jacobite and the Shakespeare Express continue to go from strength to strength to the extent that West Coast have doubled the number of turns made by the Jacobite this year (Brought about by the non-operation of the usual Cambrian tour, but that's beside the point).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And Railtours I think are aimed at enthusiasts, but also people who want to just go on a holiday, as a lot of them now are holiday types where you get the train (steam or diesel) and then go somewhere and stay their for a day, then travel to the next place the next day. There are a lot of railtours doing that now. I personally think railtours are only popular when it's a famous loco, like Tornado, Flying Scotsman, a Black Five or a famous diesel like a 37 or 47 etc. Then again it depends on your taste, some people might just go for a railtour so they can have a nice day out, it all depends on the person.

For many people on railtours the destination is a much bigger priority than the traction at the head of the train, as you allude to at the end of your post. It depends on the type of railtour it is: The multiple traction, covering every inch of scruffy loops and sidings type is obviously going to be most popular with enthusiasts, while a day trip to the seaside at Scarborough or some other such attraction is going to be aimed at the general public.

The draw of steam is the nostalgia factor that affects a far greater number of people than just enthusiasts, as a country Britian has a rose tinted fascination with the steam locomotive. Steam locos definitely cost much more to maintain and operate, but they appeal to a much wider market than do diesels, which justifies those higher costs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But Kids see it on the TV and then ask to see it in real life.

Popular TV programmes have certainly done their bit to maintain and promote interest in preserved railways and steam locomotives in general. Whenever I visit preserved railways, I am frequently astouned at just how much the Harry Potter films have done to raise awareness and the popularity of maroon mark 1 coaches!

 

[LE Greys]

I know, but my point was, was that East Coast have named an weekday service after it.

Just changed the times and removed a few stops. The Scotsman used to run from King's Cross at 10:00 every day and from Waverley sometime in the mid-afternoon. The current service shifted it from a middle-of-the-day slot to become a business train. I would have named it the Elizabethan, but that's beside the point.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For many people on railtours the destination is a much bigger priority than the traction at the head of the train, as you allude to at the end of your post. It depends on the type of railtour it is: The multiple traction, covering every inch of scruffy loops and sidings type is obviously going to be most popular with enthusiasts, while a day trip to the seaside at Scarborough or some other such attraction is going to be aimed at the general public.

The draw of steam is the nostalgia factor that affects a far greater number of people than just enthusiasts, as a country Britian has a rose tinted fascination with the steam locomotive. Steam locos definitely cost much more to maintain and operate, but they appeal to a much wider market than do diesels, which justifies those higher costs.

More of the real enthusiasts are outside the train taking pictures than anything. I've sometimes worried that that will depress the tour market, but they always seem to be pretty solid inside.

 

[Jdrowlands]

Although its not current, I would love to see the apt-p restored (or the E restored to running, or some hybrid) to do fast railtours. The only problem would be it could be faster up the WCML than the regular service.

I'd love to see the partial APT-E set at Crewe restored, but I believe that it is currently in a very bad shape.

 

[E&W Lucas]

But like I mentioned it's either rail enthusiasts or families who just want to go on a day out. You rarely see just normal couples are totally uninterested by trains there.

I think most reading this thread, will be able to judge who is the more likely to be right about that.

 

[IanXC]

(The depression has had a negative impact on this, but the trend year on year and decade on decade is still generally an upward one)

Tut tut! Depression indeed!

Have you not heard the story of how careless talk costs economic growth?!

Mr Jones has a small business, his son comes home one day and tells him that theres a recession. Mr Jones asks what one is, and his son tells him that its when the economy isnt doing very well, and that he should make some staff redundant to make sure his business survives. The father considers this, as his business is doing just fine, but thinks, well my son is much cleverer than me so I'd best do what he says. So he makes half his staff redundant.

A few months later Mr Jones says to his son that its a good job he did as he said, because his business is still running even though all the news is now full of job losses and failed businesses.

Now if you think about that if everyone thought the same way, a rumour has become a recession. Its all about confidence.

But more to the point a depression is often defined as negative economic growth of over 10%, and thats the last thing we need! So if we can stick to the R word that would be ace!!

/Rant over/

 

[sprinterguy]

Fair enough, I tend to use the terms depression and recession interchangeably. To date, it has personally served me no ill will, so the finer points of the financial implications of the two have largely passed me by (Famous last words!).

 

[IanXC]

Fair enough, I tend to use the terms depression and recession interchangeably. To date, it has personally served me no ill will, so the finer points of the financial implications of the two have largely passed me by (Famous last words!).

No worries! Just the economist in me trying to break out! Economists jokes are always poor.

Having thought a little further, you could be improving The Economist's R word index (compiled by counting the number of times the R word is used in the press) by using the D word rather than the R word...