Prep procedure... 153/5/8s

[hougtimo]

Right when I used to use trains the engines on the 153/5/8 units were always off until a couple of minutes till departure (sometimes the guards would close the doors before they were started). They were then started and left idling until departure.

I have recently started using trains again, and now it seems the units are started ~10 minutes before departure and the drivers do insist on revving them right up seconds after starting them....surely not good for turbo bearings?

Why is this new behaviour?

Also, why are 185s so poor when it comes to starting?

 

[driver9000]

the 15x series these days are not great at holding their main air pressure and it tends to leak away quite quickly. When the driver starts the engine if the main air is below 4.5 bar then (s)he would be unable to release the brakes, so has to run the compressor which is engine driven using the 'compressor speed up' switch to raise the main air pressure over 5.5 bar and in using this switch it powers the engines up which in turn runs the compressor. The compressor is running continually on the 14x/15x series trains but if air is needed quicker than the idling engine/compressor can provide this switch is a godsend. This doesnt damage the engine or turbos as they are already at operating temperature and have a built in relay which prevents the engine powering if its below preset levels or the oil has fully run back to the sump.

 

[scrapy]

It takes a little time to compress the air to ensure there is enough pressure to get brake release. You cannot simply turn up to a diesel train, put the key in and go like a car.

 

[hougtimo]

It takes a little time to compress the air to ensure there is enough pressure to get brake release. You cannot simply turn up to a diesel train, put the key in and go like a car.

They used to, and a 142 did at selby the other day. The engine must have been running for ~30 secs before departure. Still did the numerous revvy thing though.

 

[driver9000]

They used to, and a 142 did at selby the other day. The engine must have been running for ~30 secs before departure. Still did the numerous revvy thing though.

If you have enough air you can 'turn up and go' but if the air pressure is too low the driver will use the compressor speed up switch to build air pressure which causes the engines to do the 'revvy thing' as the compressor is engine driven.

 

[hougtimo]

If you have enough air you can 'turn up and go' but if the air pressure is too low the driver will use the compressor speed up switch to build air pressure which causes the engines to do the 'revvy thing' as the compressor is engine driven.

I see.

Right, more questions!

Why is it that some 158s sound normal at idle, but decidedly tappety when revved?

And why did the driver of a certain 156 start it, rev it, rev it again, stop it, try to start it immediately but it just kept cranking, then let it stand for a moment, then start it then rev it - then repeat the whole procedure?

 

[royaloak]

several possibilities, main one being that it might have had a fault light show on first starting up, sometimes clears when revved if not shut down and restart.

 

[poshbakerloo]

I was at Oxford rd station the other day and a 185 came in, with one of the engines turned off. they turned it on once they had stopped at the platform and revved it up loads.

 

[mbonwick]

That's the eco-mode shutting down an engine once the train is at line speed. They restart at stations. Presumably the revving was to get it back up to temperature ready for departure.

 

[Juniper Driver]

That.'s the trouble.I've had engines stop on me and have had to wait till I have stopped at the next station before I can start it again.159's mainly.

If you have enough air you can 'turn up and go' but if the air pressure is too low the driver will use the compressor speed up switch to build air pressure which causes the engines to do the 'revvy thing' as the compressor is engine driven.


Only tend to use this if im pushed for time but generally I don't use it.

 

[dk1]

This time of year most units brought in for start of service have keys left in to keep them running or if not have them started up well before departure. 15x & some 170s have compressor speed up to assist if this is overlooked. Unfortunatley Anglia 170s do not have this facility which can frequently lead to late starts. Trouble with last minute start ups is it then can take a while into the journey for the saloon to heat up for passengers.

 

[Vulcan]

I didn't know there was a problem with 185 engines starting, they do it on the move and all sorts, including shutting down to roll downhill.

 

[mbonwick]

Eco-mode only starts engines when the train is stopped.

They are then shut down once the train is at linespeed, not specifically to roll downhill.

 

[Vulcan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2674890/Trains-coasting-downhill-to-save-fuel.html for those who think i'm talking rubbish.
I'm sure I've heard them restarting on the move, but I may be wrong. Sure someone will tell me!

 

[Pumbaa]

Eco-mode only starts engines when the train is stopped.

They are then shut down once the train is at linespeed, not specifically to roll downhill.

Yes and no. If late running, the driver can restart the engines en route to make up time by having greater acceleration (handy for South TPE Man to Sheffield in particular and Malton to York) but you're right in as much as they aren't meant to do it.

 

[Juniper Driver]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2674890/Trains-coasting-downhill-to-save-fuel.html for those who think i'm talking rubbish.
I'm sure I've heard them restarting on the move, but I may be wrong. Sure someone will tell me!

Can't on SWT 158's and 159's as you need to have the reverser in neutral to start the engines.We all know what happens if you put the reverser in neutral while you are moving,the brakes come on and you stop.

Also if there is no ep key on the engines shut down after 15 minutes.It's one of the questions on the test of how do you shut down the engines on a 158/159.I cant remember how many ways there are to shut them down though.:-?

The equipment, which enables trains to freewheel, was fitted onto 51 185 locomotives run by the company.

That is crap reporting plus the article is a year old.

 

[Vulcan]

Can't on SWT 158's and 159's as you need to have the reverser in neutral to start the engines.We all know what happens if you put the reverser in neutral while you are moving,the brakes come on and you stop.

Also if there is no ep key on the engines shut down after 15 minutes.It's one of the questions on the test of how do you shut down the engines on a 158/159.I cant remember how many ways there are to shut them down though.:-?

The equipment, which enables trains to freewheel, was fitted onto 51 185 locomotives run by the company.

That is crap reporting plus the article is a year old.

Yeah, if you look at my last post but one, you will see I was refering to the 185s, not any of your SWT rubbish

And crap reporting and year old report it may be, its still what happens.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
This thread has died. I hope I havn't upset anyone with 'SWT rubbish' Certainly didn't mean to if I did!

 

[ffcphone]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2674890/Trains-coasting-downhill-to-save-fuel.html for those who think i'm talking rubbish.
I'm sure I've heard them restarting on the move, but I may be wrong. Sure someone will tell me!

There's also a thread in this forum somewhere all about the different eco-mode phases. I remember copy and pasting some info I found.

My daily commute between Preston and Bolton 99.9% of the time involves 185s both ways. I tend to catch and Edinburgh-bound service in the morning which stops once at Chorley only between Bolton and Preston. An engine is normally shut down somewhere around Lostock or Horwich Parkway as part of eco-mode.

I have once witnessed an engine restart whilst the train is moving. It happened around 18 months or so ago when a northbound service was approaching Euxton Junction. The engine under the coach I was travelling in had been switched off but as we switched tracks at Euxton Junction it was fired up. The train was already accelerating at this stage (at least that is what I remember) because the once fired up, I recall the engine remaining at idle for a number of seconds until the driver eased off acceleration. Once acceleration was again requested the engine responded accordingly. Perhaps if started whilst the throttle lever is out of idle, the engine management systems sends an idle to the engine pending the level passing through idle?

On a slightly different note, last week in the snow and ice, the 185 I was travelling on departed Chorley station painfully slowly. As a daily commuter I am well practiced in the 185 acceleration under both 2 and 3 engine working. But on this occasion it was very slow. Not only that but the engine in my carriage was both on and audibly idling only. The engine had not been restarted at Chorley from what I recall.

Barely out of Chorley station we began slowing down and actually came to a stop, slightly more abruptly than a station stop, but just as we were slowing to a stop the engine under my carriage was switched off - felt the usual vibration and heard the tone fade. Train then came to a full halt. Engine was restarted immediately, fired up without noticeable issue and a few moments later when we accelerated it did its job. Weird.

F