Prentendo Mk3

[I T S]

What will happen to the Prentendolino Mk3 set once it goes over to First Group??

Am I right in Saying the 1843 Euston / Crewe on Friday 7th Dec will be the last VIRGIN TRAINS operated Mk3 service to operate?

 

[bronzeonion]

I bloody hope they don't make it FGW HST style

 

[sprinterguy]

As far as I am aware, the Pretendolino is being retained within the West Coast franchise with First, although I do not believe that there has been anything official saying this.

I imagine that you would be correct in your theory that December 7th's 18:43 from Euston will be the last VT mark 3 service.

 

[Pumbaa]

The Pretendo is not required to be taken on by First. Nor have they stated if they will or not.

My personal hunch and the hunch of others is that it will not be transferred as part of the new franchise.

 

[The Ham]

The Pretendo is not required to be taken on by First. Nor have they stated if they will or not.

My personal hunch and the hunch of others is that it will not be transferred as part of the new franchise.

I would have thought that until they have all their new rolling stock (the new 6 coach trains) and have sorted out the new seating configurations that First will need or at least like to option to fall back on the Pretendo

 

[Anon Mouse]

I would have thought that until they have all their new rolling stock (the new 6 coach trains) and have sorted out the new seating configurations that First will need or at least like to option to fall back on the Pretendo

Yeah I agree. The Pretendo will certainly not fit into their long term plans but at least until the promised new trains are in service I suspect it will remain in service, unless they can get a spare Voyager or Pendo from somewhere (would the TPE 350's be an option as spare stock, just like HT using TPE stock between Hull and Donny when they had the acute shortage)

 

[sprinterguy]

I would have thought that until they have all their new rolling stock (the new 6 coach trains) and have sorted out the new seating configurations that First will need or at least like to option to fall back on the Pretendo

That’s a good point. At the very least, while First have Pendolinos out of service for refurbishment, reportedly in the first two and a half years of the franchise for the Voyagers at least, they’ll need something to step into the breach and fill the gap.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yeah I agree. The Pretendo will certainly not fit into their long term plans but at least until the promised new trains are in service I suspect it will remain in service, unless they can get a spare Voyager or Pendo from somewhere (would the TPE 350's be an option as spare stock, just like HT using TPE stock between Hull and Donny when they had the acute shortage)

It seems that there will be even less slack in TPEs’ 350 fleet than there is in their fleet of 185s, so I think that that idea is a non-starter, particularly when you think of just how under-specified in terms of passenger capacity, catering provision and maximum speed a 350 would be if it was required to do the same work as the Pretendolino.

 

[rail-britain]

As far as I am aware, the Pretendolino is being retained within the West Coast franchise with First, although I do not believe that there has been anything official saying this

The Pretendo is not required to be taken on by First. Nor have they stated if they will or not

http://www.firstgroup.com/assets/pd...Coast_franchise_award_presentation_150812.pdf

First InterCity West Coast will clearly be retaining the Mark 3 loco hauled set initially
This suggests it will be retained until 2016, when it will be displaced by the new rolling stock
Equally I would expect it to be involved in strengthening on the revised Preston / Blackpool timetable from 2013 which will most likely see it in daily weekday use

However, no mention of Class 57 locos which were included in the West Coast Trains Limited franchise up to 09 December 2012

 

[David10]

Equally I would expect it to be involved in strengthening on the revised Preston / Blackpool timetable from 2013 which will most likely see it in daily weekday use

Given its ability to only operate at 110mph, if WB64 stays imagine it would be restricted to Birmingham services to minimise its time on the WCML. Once the H3 overhauls are completed this year there should be 1 or 2 extra Pendolinos available. The Blackpool service will probably be operated by diverting Lancaster terminators.

 

[rail-britain]

The Blackpool service will probably be operated by diverting Lancaster terminators.

Don't forget the increase in requirements on Glasgow services, with an hourly service from 2013, and an earlier Press Release advised this would be done by extending these services to Glasgow
This suggests the Blackpool service is achieved by extending the Preston services

 

[150001]

Not liking the use of new seats! Please do not be those HST ones!

 

[Retorus]

I've never understood the hate for the FGW HST seats.

 

[MCR247]

Neither do I, they are very nice. Not sure about in a 390 though

 

[Yew]

I've never understood the hate for the FGW HST seats.

I havent used them on HST's, but on EMT's 158's they are just a bit too high, then the 'head wings' make it even worse. The versions used by ATW could be better though, same style of seat without the wings. Should give a good balance of priviacy and visibility.

They are very well built though, although maybe a little hard

 

[tom1649]

If privacy is an issue they should go back to having side compartments. I'm an IC70 seat lover here and prefer them over the much harder and higher modern seats. It is my aim to travel on the last ever service train with IC70 seats, whenever and wherever that may be! I was very pleased that the EMT HST refurbishment a few years ago retained the original seating, especially as EMT are my local operator.

 

[Yew]

If privacy is an issue they should go back to having side compartments. I'm an IC70 seat lover here and prefer them over the much harder and higher modern seats. It is my aim to travel on the last ever service train with IC70 seats, whenever and wherever that may be! I was very pleased that the EMT HST refurbishment a few years ago retained the original seating, especially as EMT are my local operator.

Priviacy might not be the right word, and if anything compartments could be worse for it if travelling alone. Look on a packed EMT HST, you can see everyone else in the carriage when youre in standard. Whereas on a 156 with slightly higher backed seats, you can still see everyone easily, but also its easier to shut everyone out. I think a IC70 with 6-12 inches of extra height (ie with a headrest) would be a good balance

 

[MCR247]

And moveable armrests

 

[DXMachina]

.... when you think of just how under-specified in terms of passenger capacity, catering provision and maximum speed a 350 would be if it was required to do the same work as the Pretendolino.

A new 350 has higher acceleration and the same top speed as the Pretendolino

 

[sprinterguy]

A new 350 has higher acceleration and the same top speed as the Pretendolino

Will the TPE 350s be cleared for 110mph operation? I wasn't sure. And they still fall well short on train capacity and passenger amenities. I would absolutely hate to see a 350 standing in for the Pretendolino set on the 18:43 Euston - Crewe on a Friday, where you can expect to find around ninety people in each standard class carriage.

 

[David10]

A new 350 has higher acceleration and the same top speed as the Pretendolino

Rubbish, 350s have a top speed of 110mph.

 

[ainsworth74]

Rubbish, 350s have a top speed of 110mph.

Which is the same as the top speed of the Pretendolino...

 

[Pumbaa]

And as the 350 can hold MU differentials, arguably can hold top speed for longer too

 

[dubscottie]

A new 350 has higher acceleration and the same top speed as the Pretendolino

Do you have the 0-60 times? Remember a class 90 could keep to class 91 timings on the London - Leeds route even although they could only do 110mph... A class 90 may be slower, but could out run a 91 or HST away from the platform.

Also, who is to say that the 110mph 350's wont be stuck on the slow lines for most of their journeys with lots of less than 110mph running?

 

[Nym]

The 'slow' lines covered as part of the TV4 project are all 110/125EPS anyway for the most part, biggest single thing they kept telling me about the TV4 project at a recruitment presentation by NR.

 

[dubscottie]

The 'slow' lines covered as part of the TV4 project are all 110/125EPS anyway for the most part, biggest single thing they kept telling me about the TV4 project at a recruitment presentation by NR.

By the time you add freight, stopping trains etc.. They will still be hampered speed wise. And I can see NR being keen on 4-car EMU's running in between 125mph Pendo's on the fast lines!

 

[Nym]

They have 100mph Class 350s running on the Fasts at the moment between pendos south of MKC, and even more south of WFJ

 

[ainsworth74]

Do you have the 0-60 times? Remember a class 90 could keep to class 91 timings on the London - Leeds route even although they could only do 110mph... A class 90 may be slower, but could out run a 91 or HST away from the platform.

I would be very surprised if a 90 hauling eight or so trailers could outperform a modern EMU...

 

[87015]

I would be very surprised if a 90 hauling eight or so trailers could outperform a modern EMU...

The sectional running times on the Great Eastern are as good as identical.

 

[DXMachina]

I've ridden behind 90s in mk3 sets before, when that wasnt something unusual on the WCML. They don't feel fast. Even the original 100mph 350 feels like it just wants to go, all the time... and the rate at which they reach linespeed compared to the 321s they replaced is breathtaking. And a 321 isn't a particularly slow set...

And yes as others stated the pretendolino is 110 tops and has a reputation on here for losing time even when its been catered for in the timetable.

 

[monty9120]

ive been on a 350 on the fasts from northampton to euston. shame my sat nav didnt work