Preferred Intercity Rolling Stock

[LexyBoy]

I should clarify that it ISNT the original seats on a MKIII I like. They are not fantastically comfortable on a long run, especially when trying to work at a table. I think the current East Coast seats are very comfortable and offer good support.

As I've said before, these are modern! There's no reason something similar won't/can't be used in IEP.

 

[londiscape]

Since I usually go for airline seats over table seats (unless it's REALLY quiet) for a bit of solitude, if I'm working on a laptop the special mention must go to FGW's refurbished Mark IIIs for the pull-out chrome "laptop rest" built into every STD class airline seat-back table.

Such a simple idea, but solves the problem that almost every other airline seat has - which is that it's almost impossible to use a laptop on them as they are too shallow and the screen won't open to more than about 60 degree angle, or the laptop falls off the table.

Otherwise, if not working, EC MK4s for comfort, or the all-table seated coach on a Virgin Voyager (did this used to be 1st class and get declassified?) if it's a very quiet service and can get a 4 to oneself, eg late evening Chester to Euston.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I've been very impressed by ICEs, though there is a fare premium to use them for that in 2nd/standard you get reclining seats, adjustable headrest, foot rests (basically a 2+2 version of UK first) also ICE1 sets have compartments - First has even bigger seats and tables)

German's of a certain age prefer 1980s type IC coaches to ICEs, also the few surviving Metropolitan sets are much nicer than ICEs (except in the original 2nd which is crap)

 

[sprinterguy]

the all-table seated coach on a Virgin Voyager (did this used to be 1st class and get declassified?)

No, the standard class buffet vehicle on Virgin Super Voyagers was re-seated to allow it to be used for first or standard class accomodation as required.

 

[Aictos]

I see my sarcasm has let everyone here totally and utterly confused My point was simple, we have enough of these threads which say the exact same thing every time which is 390s are horrible and Mk3s are great or words to that effect, it gets tiresome and very boring!!!

 

[chris89]

For myself, the reason why Mark 3s didn't get on the list, as the last time i had majorly used them was when i saw younger then 12 with trips to London (From Castle Cary) or mega long trips up to Aviemore.

Same as well for the tail end of Mark 1s/2s being used on the extra services between Weymouth/ Templemeads via Cary.

 

[ryan125hst]

Back in February, I had my first ride on both a Class 222 and a Class 221 when going to/coming from Barrow Hill. Admittedly, it was only a short ten minute hop between Sheffield and Chesterfield, but it did allow to see what I thought of them. I have to say, I was impressed. Despite being DMU's with under floor engines, I found them to be very smooth and quiet, and the levels of comfort were close to what I have experienced with HST's and 225's. Even the Voyager on the return trip was smooth, and I never remember thinking that it was too noisy.

There were a few complaints though. I used the toilet on the 222 before we left Sheffield and there was no water (thank goodness for paper towels to wipe the soap of my hand! ), and when walking past one, the Voyager's toilet really did smell as bad as people have said. The only other problem was the vestibule door on the Voyager being a bit of a pain and closing on me and my mates on approach to Sheffield. There were two other people in the vestibule and the lack of a pressure pad or sensor of any description was a bit of a pain.

On the whole though, not bad trains, and I would be quite comfortable to travel on one for two or three hours. That said, the HST's and 225's are very quiet due to the lack of under floor engines, and I still believe that Intercity trains should have engines at each end of the train rather than under the floor. It doesn't matter too much on electric trains (I bet the Pendolino's are quite quiet?), but on diesels, I would prefer a 5 hour journey on a HST than Voyager.

 

[317666]

If we're allowed outside of the UK I think for me the winner could be the Belgian 'I10' coaches, used mainly on the Liers - Liège - Luxembourg IRs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/max_rail_photos_ii/13540524983/

Seats are fantastic although full-size tables would be nice.

Within the UK, I think my favourite longer-distance stock is a 175 or a 158 (operator depending - ATW's and EMT's are fantastic, FGW's less so).

 

[higthomas]

Mark 3 (GA interior)
Class 444 (SWT interior)
Mark 3 (FGW interior)

 

[ryan125hst]

Mark 3 (GA interior)

I'm surprised to hear that. I've never been on a GA Mark 3, but from what I've seen online they haven't had a good refurbishment in years! Would you not prefer East Coast's Mallard interior? http://wikitravel.org/upload/shared...rior.JPG/800px-C2_East_Coast_HST_Interior.JPG

 

[al.currie93]

It's interesting to see people's preferences and see that a lot of people are similar to me; I thought I'd be classed as mad :P

I do like the slightly bumpier rides of the Mk 3; I personally find that the perfect amount of motion. I like to feel like I'm moving and any smoother and I find it a bit too smooth and actually less comfortable. Again nice to see I'm not alone :P

I also admittedly like the opening windows in the vestibules; the wind rusing past at 125mph is a great experience for me and they don't have too much effect on the saloon of the carriage either.

I'm surprised to hear that. I've never been on a GA Mark 3, but from what I've seen online they haven't had a good refurbishment in years! Would you not prefer East Coast's Mallard interior? http://wikitravel.org/upload/shared...rior.JPG/800px-C2_East_Coast_HST_Interior.JPG

They're not too bad from what I've seen, just a little shabby, though I don't have much experience with them.

I do agree with you though; the East Coast interior trumps it for me (with FGW in a very close second). I took the Highland Cheiftain it's full journey the other day and could have happily gone on :P

 

[ryan125hst]

I do agree with you though; the East Coast interior trumps it for me (with FGW in a very close second). I took the Highland Cheiftain it's full journey the other day and could have happily gone on :P

I can remember going on the old brown GNER interior in about 2007, and also going on, I think, an ex CrossCountry (green) interior from Retford to Doncaster around a similar time. My first ride on a Mallard HST (having been on a Mallard refurbished 225 a few times) was in 2009 from London to Retford. Unfortunately, it wasn't until I went to London this summer that I finally got on another one- whenever I have gone to Doncaster or York, it has either been a 225 or that ex. EMT set. I'm sure it was stalking me at one point as every time I was on an East Coast HST it was that one!

 

[nathanclass323]

In the UK, I think the interior of the 175s and 180s are the best designed on units - until it come to the colour schemes. Otherwise, I actually quite like MK2Fs and MK3s. MK4s are quite good too.

 

[Rapidash]

About the only ones I get to use are the XC Voyagers and FGW HST's heading to Plymouth. I'll take the HST for the interior and legroom, but the Voyager for the smoothness of the ride. The XC HST I got to Newton Abbot last week was a bit rattly, but the interiors did appear much more modern than the FGW ones - electronic seat reservations on a HST?! Passenger Info Screens that work. In Devon?! Madness!

 

[Yew]

I was happily surprised at the quility of ride the Lounge cars on the sleeper had. I was expecting something awful. Certainly not as cushioned as a MK3, but it also didnt have that low speed 'lumbering' feel

 

[higthomas]

I'm surprised to hear that. I've never been on a GA Mark 3, but from what I've seen online they haven't had a good refurbishment in years! Would you not prefer East Coast's Mallard interior? http://wikitravel.org/upload/shared...rior.JPG/800px-C2_East_Coast_HST_Interior.JPG

Two things: Firstly, I like the lower seat backs, I find that they make the carrige much brighter, which I something I really like. Second: I have never actually travelled on East Coast so cannot do a fair comparison.

 

[3141]

In the UK, I think the interior of the 175s and 180s are the best designed on units - until it come to the colour schemes. Otherwise, I actually quite like MK2Fs and MK3s. MK4s are quite good too.

I'm glad some people have put the 180s forward as preferred IC stock. I read an article some years ago which said that in designing the 180, Alstom's engineers aimed to re-create the feel of a mark 3 coach. They aligned seats with windows, in contrast to Voyagers. The main problem is the underfloor engines, which mean that in places they are definitely less restful than a loco-hauled coach - which is a consideration on a long journey.

444s are also worth considering for their quiet and smooth ride, but in designing the seats Siemens did not make long-distance comfort a priority.

 

[shaun]

Definitely MK3s. Having used Pendos for a couple of years regularly when they first replaced the MK3s, there was a very noticeable decline in comfort. Once you got past the modern exterior, internally they were/are just Ryanair on wheels. First Class is better but should be more spacious, the seats are not much wider than those found in standard class on other IC routes. Airline seating legroom isn't that great in First either. Voyagers have the same issues, except the windows are bigger which alot of people prefer. But they can be noisy, which you don't want on long distances! I don't really hate the pendos now as much as i used to, actually i quite enjoy a short journey on one. But theyll never beat a MK3 or MK4 for comfort. The missing armrest on window seats, what a joke! I like all the refreshed MK3s, favouring Chiltern and FGW's.

Mk2s from a long distance point of view i never liked, they were daughty and just as noisy as Voyagers are! The only good points were the seating and the legroom, that's it! Would probably choose a Pendo despite their interiors, at least they are quieter!

Those aside, really like 175/180s which have great interiors and are not too noisy. Meridians are sometimes nice, other times turbulent. Class 442s are great unless you happen to be in the centre car, not too fussed about the new seats as they only run to Brighton anyway. 444s are almost spot on, but they should've had better padded seats like FGW HSTs.

Got confidence in the IEPs, the fact that in the spec they Openly admit the faliures in the Voyager/Pendos is a good sign. Probably will be like an even better version of the 180...i hope so anyway.

 

[Manchester77]

Got confidence in the IEPs, the fact that in the spec they Openly admit the faliures in the Voyager/Pendos is a good sign. Probably will be like an even better version of the 180...i hope so anyway.

I wouldn't have to be honest, people who have seen the mock up have reported how the floor is higher in parts to accommodate the underfloor engines so tall folk such as myself may have to duck when entering at one end of the coaches. The seats from the photos I've seen don't really look that comfortable, let's hope operators specify different seats however I'm doubtful. Photos here (click through them: http://s995.photobucket.com/user/800101/library/?sort=3&page=1

I'd say I quite like the mark IVs on long distance journeys, quieter than the mark IIIs giving quite a comfortable ride. They are closely seconded by EMTs 158s which are incredibly comfortable and despite what seems to be popular opinion the high seats to me are a good thing as you feel more private even in an airline seat. Northers 158s with the big comfy original seats are nice too, could do with a refresh though but one which doesn't alter the seat padding!

 

[cjmillsnun]

Mark 3 (GA interior)

If they have IC70's I'm with you on that.

 

[shaun]

I wouldn't have to be honest, people who have seen the mock up have reported how the floor is higher in parts to accommodate the underfloor engines so tall folk such as myself may have to duck when entering at one end of the coaches. The seats from the photos I've seen don't really look that comfortable, let's hope operators specify different seats however I'm doubtful. Photos here (click through them: http://s995.photobucket.com/user/800101/library/?sort=3&page=1!

Hadn't seen these, thanks!

They look like the same seats in Standard as the 395s have, those are actually rather comfy so that's good! First Class like the Voyager/Pendos again leaves alot to be desired, hope they change that aspect. Can also see the seats don't appear to match up with the windows in first either...sort it out IEP!

 

[RichmondCommu]

1st place goes to the Pendolinos. The fact that they tilt is a bonus and not always having a seat that lines up with a window is not an issue. I find the contents of my tablet / newspaper or for work laptop far more interesting! Not mention the fact that they are far safer and quicker than a mk3 loco hauled set. And a damn sight more reliable!

2nd place goes to the Meridians. They are reliable, comfortable and go like a rocket! In fact everything that a HST on the MML doesn't do!

3rd place goes to the mk4's. They are comfortable and spacious but I think the ride quality is rather suspect at times.

I have to say I can't stand the mk3's. They are drafty and having to open the external door / shut the external door is a pain in the bum. I'm aware that Chiltern have done a very good job of refurbishing their mk3's but Marylebone to Birmingham takes way too long!
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Hadn't seen these, thanks!

Can also see the seats don't appear to match up with the windows in first either...sort it out IEP!

I really don't see why that is an issue. Surely it is more of a priority to install as many seats as possible, regardless as to whether this comes at the expense of a window view?
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I realise that there are a lot of youngsters on this board who might not have a lot of experience of travelling on proper trains and are therefore conditioned to expect the poor standards offered by modern trains but they simply are not as comfortable as the older trains. How even an average sized person sits comfortably for any length of time on a Voyager is beyond me. Edinburgh to Plymouth is torture.

I'm 47 and go out of my way to avoid travelling on a HST on the MML. My family and I have been using the WCML for many years and I can honestly say that I don't miss the mk3's. I would rather drive than travel on what you would describe as a proper train. Why in the 21st century should I have to open a train door when a button should do it for me? Or have to put up with a drafty coach because some berk wants to have their head chopped off?

 

[yorksrob]

I have to say I can't stand the mk3's. They are drafty and having to open the external door / shut the external door is a pain in the bum. I'm aware that Chiltern have done a very good job of refurbishing their mk3's but Marylebone to Birmingham takes way too long!
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Or have to put up with a drafty coach because some berk wants to have their head chopped off?

Mk 3 better by any stretch of the imagination.

I find all modern stock a bit claustrophobic. I like to be able to go into the vestibule to have a bit of fresh air.

And the traditional Mk 3 seats are a lot more comfortable than modern hard seats.

I will frequently choose a route over an hour longer than the alternative in order to guarantee a Mk 3.
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3rd place goes to the mk4's. They are comfortable and spacious but I think the ride quality is rather suspect at times.

Agree with your point about the suspect quality of the Mk 4 ride at times though !

 

[RichmondCommu]

Mk 3 better by any stretch of the imagination.

I find all modern stock a bit claustrophobic. I like to be able to go into the vestibule to have a bit of fresh air.

And the traditional Mk 3 seats are a lot more comfortable than modern hard seats.

I will frequently choose a route over an hour longer than the alternative in order to guarantee a Mk 3.
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Agree with your point about the suspect quality of the Mk 4 ride at times though !

Fair play Mr Yorksrob! However I could never justify delaying my journey by an hour to travel on the train of my choice but I respect those that do! However the transformation of the WCML and the MML (the two Intercity routes that I use the most) would not have been possible without the introduction of the Pendolinos and the Meridians.

 

[yorksrob]

Fair play Mr Yorksrob! However I could never justify delaying my journey by an hour to travel on the train of my choice but I respect those that do! However the transformation of the WCML and the MML (the two Intercity routes that I use the most) would not have been possible without the introduction of the Pendolinos and the Meridians.

Ah, I haven't used the WCML regularly since the good old days with Mk 3's, but I'm a regular user of the MML to this day, and all I have to say is thank heavens for Neville Hill and it's InterCity 125's.

Meridians are good, but they just aren't as comfortable.

 

[deltic08]

1. Mark 2 First class, especially compartment stock, at 100mph.
2. East Coast Mark3/4 at 100/125mph. Hate the EMT HST set on this route due to red/blue upholstery being uneasy on the eye.
I too like the droplight window in the Mk3 door for some air on a long journey. I feel sorry for the specimens who are too pathetically lazy to open the door of a Mark 2/3.

I stopped travelling by train when the Voyagers were introduced on XC. Too much noise and vibration for trips to the Southwest and too cramped in Standard Class.

From previews, I think IEP is going to be very cramped with too many airline seats especially in First. Successive builds try and pack in more seats per coach than previously all leading to a decline in comfort.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I wonder what people would've thought of the Pendolino's first class had it ended up resembling this concept art.

 

[higthomas]

From previews, I think IEP is going to be very cramped with too many airline seats especially in First. Successive builds try and pack in more seats per coach than previously all leading to a decline in comfort.

How else do you intend to provide the much needed capacity increases that are provided on many routes by doing this?

We need more capacity, and putting more seats on each train is one of the cheapest ways of doing that. I know that it's sad that railways seem to be getting less comfortable, but that is what happens when they are overcrowded and actually trying to be run at less of a loss, comprimises.

 

[fowler9]

I find it bizarre travelling from Liverpool to Birmingham these days. Back in the day it would be on a Mk2 or Mk3. These days it is on a 3+2 seat 350 which is a bit like Merseyrail was before they refurbished the 507's and 508's and made them 2+2.

Mk3's are my favourite. Pendolinos are like a slightly less comfortable 737-800 operated by Ryanair.

 

[nathanclass323]

I wonder what people would've thought of the Pendolino's first class had it ended up resembling this concept art.

I remember seeing that some years back. Looks nice but the tables are definitely too small!