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Predictions for 2023

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Sutton in Ant

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Well. There are only 2 things I think that is viable. I would say that when the 350/2's come off lease. They will be in storage and I think that it is the same with 379s. They will be in storage as in the future. There will be a time when they will be wanted again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

. Here is what is said about train privatisation, especially the railways.
 
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Goldfish62

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There are certainly some well considered predictions here.

After getting it right on most of mine I made last year I'm not going to push my luck again. So just a handful:

1. The Class 701s will start entering service, very slowly, from June.
2. The NR dispute will be resolved by early February. The accepted package will basically be as per what is currently on offer, but with some minor tweaks to allow the RMT to sell it to members.
3. The disputes with the TOCs will run and run and get nasty.
4. Following Abellio's delayed departure another company will leave the UK rail market.
5. GBR will be officially declared dead. The rudderless ship will prevail.
 

Energy

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4. Following Abellio's delayed departure another company will leave the UK rail market.
I wouldn't say left, they had a management buyout. Politically the Dutch government didn't seem to like running foreign transport operations.
 

Llandudno

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A temporary decline in passenger numbers for the first quarter of the year due to the £2 bus cap giving a cheaper alternative outside of the Capital for local travelling and the rail strikes going on in January.
I very much doubt that the £2 single bus fare cap will make any difference to rail passenger numbers on non strike days.
 

Bletchleyite

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I very much doubt that the £2 single bus fare cap will make any difference to rail passenger numbers on non strike days.

There will be places where it will, mostly in cities where bus and rail can be equally viable for some shorter journeys with decent bus priority. But just like going from London to Carlisle by service bus for nowt using your ENCTS is a minority pursuit, so will be taking 2 hour £2 bus journeys when the train is a fiver and takes 40 minutes, say. Most working people value their time too much.
 

Trainlog

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I very much doubt that the £2 single bus fare cap will make any difference to rail passenger numbers on non strike days.
To an extent i agree as its will only be for a short period of time. However, certainly in the case of local rail routes if it will only cost you £4 for a return meanwhile the train is still around the £5 or more mark it might cause some to ditch rail in term for a cheaper fare if it gets them from A-B. Sadly i will be doing this as its just logically cheaper to go by bus whilst the scheme is running. Its not like they are making a cap or a 50% discount on rail travel for a limited time only (though that would be great:)).
 

Goldfish62

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I wouldn't say left, they had a management buyout. Politically the Dutch government didn't seem to like running foreign transport operations.
The management buyout hasn't happened yet but when it does Abellio will have very clearly left the UK rail market.
 

Llandudno

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There will be places where it will, mostly in cities where bus and rail can be equally viable for some shorter journeys with decent bus priority. But just like going from London to Carlisle by service bus for nowt using your ENCTS is a minority pursuit, so will be taking 2 hour £2 bus journeys when the train is a fiver and takes 40 minutes, say. Most working people value their time too much.
In many towns and cities there are day rover type bus tickets for circa £5 in any case, so I doubt 2 x £2 single tickets would convince many to switch from rail to bus when they could have bought a £5 bus ticket.

And if you ditch the train for a slightly cheaper bus ticket with the likes of Arriva or First you might wish you hadn’t bothered!
 

Bletchleyite

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In many towns and cities there are day rover type bus tickets for circa £5 in any case, so I doubt 2 x £2 single tickets would convince many to switch from rail to bus when they could have bought a £5 bus ticket.

And if you ditch the train for a slightly cheaper bus ticket with the likes of Arriva or First you might wish you hadn’t bothered!

I don't know, I think Northern and TPE are managing to plumb even the depths below Arriva The Shires for rubbishness at the moment! :)

Probably more likely that the shift to bus in some places (e.g. the excellent Transdev Yorkshire operation) is driven by the railway being rubbish rather than the bus being cheaper.
 

Llandudno

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I don't know, I think Northern and TPE are managing to plumb even the depths below Arriva The Shires for rubbishness at the moment! :)

Probably more likely that the shift to bus in some places (e.g. the excellent Transdev Yorkshire operation) is driven by the railway being rubbish rather than the bus being cheaper.
Certainly concur with Transdev.

Unfortunately most of the rest of Yorkshire is served by Arriva and First….
 

Bevan Price

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The future is guesswork, but possibly:

Rail disputes continue for much of 2023.

Largely unjustified reductions in timetables on some busy lines, with DfT not caring about bad overcrowding.
Too many units taken out of service and stored / sold for scrap, maybe including some Class 150 and 156.

Any public sympathy for ASLEF strikes will turn to hostility when it is widely realised that many of them already get over £50k p.a.

Outside the rail industry, big cuts to bus services will commence and continue.
The Government will continue its "head in the sand" attitude to NHS pay, and interfere with the 2023 "independent" pay review by specifying an unreasonably low maximum pay increase.

Last year's record maximum temperature will be exceeded. Another prolonged drought may occur in parts of England & Wales.

And in the longer term, I fear the tories will narrowly win the November 2024 General Election.
 

Ken H

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The future is guesswork, but possibly:

Rail disputes continue for much of 2023.

Largely unjustified reductions in timetables on some busy lines, with DfT not caring about bad overcrowding.
Too many units taken out of service and stored / sold for scrap, maybe including some Class 150 and 156.

Any public sympathy for ASLEF strikes will turn to hostility when it is widely realised that many of them already get over £50k p.a.

Outside the rail industry, big cuts to bus services will commence and continue.
The Government will continue its "head in the sand" attitude to NHS pay, and interfere with the 2023 "independent" pay review by specifying an unreasonably low maximum pay increase.

Last year's record maximum temperature will be exceeded. Another prolonged drought may occur in parts of England & Wales.

And in the longer term, I fear the tories will narrowly win the November 2024 General Election.
An unremarkable year. The railways will contract slightly, a process that will continue for a few years.
I think you are right about buses. A few commercial services will need subsidy so some hard choices by councils. the age profile of the bus fleet will be older.
The next election will be fought on who can get the vote out. I fear many wont bother to vote. Will a government who won an election where only 30% of the electorate voted have a mandate to govern?
 

Mag_seven

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Similar to the previous post where we predicted what would happen in 2022 then revisited it at the end of the year, I thought I’d share my thoughts on what would happen in 2023. Some of these may be far fetched, but all are based on my own opinion.

1. Timetables will continue to be reduced where needed, and at the very least suggestions will be put in for branch line closures
2. Micro fleets will be withdrawn without replacement, or at least have a set date of withdrawal in 2024, beginning with the EMR 180s, the Chiltern loco hauled stock and possibly even the XC HSTs
3. The current industrial action both inside and outside the rail industry will continue into the spring before the government gives in and talks to the unions. (personally I am hoping this is resolved asap)
4. Staff shortages will get worse before it gets better, especially with the likes of Avanti and TPE, the latter of which will enter into an emergency timetable after admitting that the Dec 22 timetable was too ambitious
5. I personally don’t think the 350/2 and 379 will find new homes and will be scrapped, but separate threads are ongoing on this subject
6. Grand Central will either choose to, or get told to, plan a stock replacement scheme to ensure no more diesel trains are running into Kings Cross. This may be the only new fleet mentioned this year, however I am more inclined to say that this will happen sometime in the next 5 years
7. The 197, 701 and 730 both may finally enter service this year, which will see off a lot of older stock, as per the next point
8. Some fleets won’t be so lucky in finding new operators, the obvious ones will be the Northern 319s, the 455s, the GWR 769s, but I might be pessimistic in saying that the 350/2 and 379 will also join this list
9. The Marston Vale will run smoother as it’s permanent 230 replacement is allocated
10. On the Isle of Wight, they may be a bit more successful with the 484s, at least for this year
11. TfW decide to hold onto their 175 and 158 fleets a bit longer, even if new fleets are being phased into service
12. We may see some new lines or stations opened this year, including the Levenmouth Line and the stations between Walsall and Wolverhampton, as well as the Camp Hill route
13. LNER discuss replacements to it’s IC225 fleet, but orders may not be placed yet
14. Fleet refurbishments will either be postponed indefinitely or called off entirely, for a few operators
15. EMR’s 810 fleet may slip further into 2024, at least where the main introduction is concerned.

Like I say some of these may be far fetched but it’ll be interesting to see where these ideas go or even if some turn out false, what would happen instead

Let’s hear your predictions

Thread reopened. :)
 

deltic

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  • The Network Rail dispute will be over by Valentines Day but the TOC dispute will continue until the summer.
  • HS2 north of Birmingham will be completely shelved.
  • NPR will be cancelled except for a few enhancements to the current routes.
  • TPE’s issues will still be causing serious problems for the entire year. So much so that ridership will be decimated, services slashed and the entire fleet of Mk 5as withdrawn, some being exported.
@Bertie the bus very impressive forecasting - will be looking carefully at what you predict for 2024
 

liamf656

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Thanks @Mag_seven , I'll be honest I forgot about this thread!

Similar to the previous post where we predicted what would happen in 2022 then revisited it at the end of the year, I thought I’d share my thoughts on what would happen in 2023. Some of these may be far fetched, but all are based on my own opinion.

1. Timetables will continue to be reduced where needed, and at the very least suggestions will be put in for branch line closures
Various timetables were indeed reduced with examples at Transpennine Express and Avanti, however some improvements were made at EMR where some gaps were plugged

2. Micro fleets will be withdrawn without replacement, or at least have a set date of withdrawal in 2024, beginning with the EMR 180s, the Chiltern loco hauled stock and possibly even the XC HSTs
This is scarily correct with regards to EMR and XC stock, however the Chiltern 68/mk3 stock continues for now. I never suspected TPE 68/mk5s to continue though

3. The current industrial action both inside and outside the rail industry will continue into the spring before the government gives in and talks to the unions. (personally I am hoping this is resolved asap)
In terms of EMT this eventually happened in the Autumn, however ASLEF action continues

4. Staff shortages will get worse before it gets better, especially with the likes of Avanti and TPE, the latter of which will enter into an emergency timetable after admitting that the Dec 22 timetable was too ambitious
I believe this has been the case if someome can confirm?

5. I personally don’t think the 350/2 and 379 will find new homes and will be scrapped, but separate threads are ongoing on this subject
So far the 350/2 is still in service although its days are numbered. The 379 however, are still in storage

6. Grand Central will either choose to, or get told to, plan a stock replacement scheme to ensure no more diesel trains are running into Kings Cross. This may be the only new fleet mentioned this year, however I am more inclined to say that this will happen sometime in the next 5 years
One thing I NEVER expected was for Grand Central to operate Voyagers, although in my opinion it was a good move and more sets should be used for the short term

7. The 197, 701 and 730 both may finally enter service this year, which will see off a lot of older stock, as per the next point
197s and 730s are entering sservice currently, I don't think the 701 has unless anyone can correct me?

8. Some fleets won’t be so lucky in finding new operators, the obvious ones will be the Northern 319s, the 455s, the GWR 769s, but I might be pessimistic in saying that the 350/2 and 379 will also join this list
We have indeed seen Northern 319s go for scrap although this seems to have been a given. Not sure on the status of GWR'S 769s?

9. The Marston Vale will run smoother as it’s permanent 230 replacement is allocated
We have seen 150s re-enter service on this line


10. On the Isle of Wight, they may be a bit more successful with the 484s, at least for this year
Can someone confirm the ins and outs of their reliability?

11. TfW decide to hold onto their 175 and 158 fleets a bit longer, even if new fleets are being phased into service
I was wrong about the 175s as they are now off lease, however the 158s continue for now

12. We may see some new lines or stations opened this year, including the Levenmouth Line and the stations between Walsall and Wolverhampton, as well as the Camp Hill route
These are still in progress

13. LNER discuss replacements to it’s IC225 fleet, but orders may not be placed yet
New CAF trains have been ordered for LNER

14. Fleet refurbishments will either be postponed indefinitely or called off entirely, for a few operators
I cant say this has happened anywhere?

15. EMR’s 810 fleet may slip further into 2024, at least where the main introduction is concerned.
It looks as if the 810s are indeed being handed over to EMR in 2024

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@Bertie the bus very impressive forecasting - will be looking carefully at what you predict for 2024
I agree, this is scarily accurate!!
 

The Ham

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I however disagree, we're at 2009 passenger numbers (circa 1.2bn) for the last 12 months of quarterly data (3 of those months were the end of 2021 when rail use was still very low with Covid worries - for example a load of Christmas parties were cancelled), as such things are likely as bad as they'll get.

By this time in 2023 the available data, even with strikes, will show a reasonable level of uplift in passenger numbers from this. Possibly circa 1.5bn (just repeating the numbers from the last quarter for the next four would get us to circa 1.4bn), possibly more - depending on how the strikes work out.

Year to end of September was just shy of 1.6bn.

 

Sutton in Ant

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Well. I can tell you something that I know that is not going to happen and it this. Southern Railway will NOT be getting the 377/5s. They are staying with Southeastern Railway.
 

Bertie the bus

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@Bertie the bus very impressive forecasting - will be looking carefully at what you predict for 2024
I agree, this is scarily accurate!!
It’s nice to see my mystic powers appreciated but I think I’ll give 2024 a miss. With it being a general election year I think it will be a fairly uneventful year as far as big ticket projects are concerned.
 
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